Wonder Heading Back to Port Canaveral?

[otten]

You can say that about any business. Is Walmart safe?

Florida is not willing to "risk it", they're just giving the public, employees and legally licensed businesses the rights that they have under law. Florida understands that they are not the people's momma and people can determine for themselves whether or not they want to go to a themepark or work at a themepark. In a representative democracy we do not rule by decree. If the CA government feels it is not safe to go to themeparks, then do it the right way and vote on it or pass a law with their full-time state legislature. The problem I see with the way CA is handling it is that the governor is ruling by decree based on personal feelings of what is safe by cherry picking which businesses can be open and make money(Wal-Mart and liquor stores for example) and then which ones must close, go bankrupt and put those company's employees into unemployment poverty. My state does not have a full-time state legislature, ours only meets once every 2 yrs to make laws and then those reps have to go back to their normal civilian jobs and work under the laws that they helped create. I believe Florida has a similar deal where their legislative session is only a 60 day period once a year. So in times like these when our legislature is not in session, it makes sense that our governor has to step in. In a state like CA that does have a full-time state legislature with full-time tax payer salaried law makers, I do not understand why the CA people and the legislature are not saying anything about the fact that the voting for laws and regulations has been usurped with these ruling by decree orders from their governor.

Now before anybody howls about this post being political, the above spans all socio political groups. I am not advocating any specific political group nor can anybody tell what my political group is based on my post. The reason I bring the above issues up is I think it directly relates to the pulling of the Wonder from CA to FL. A business cannot operate in a state that is ruled by decree instead of ruled by law. What if DCL kept the Wonder in CA, they have no way to know if they can operate again and even if given the green light to operate, it could be yanked back again by another rule by decree. No legal business or employees should have to go through that kind of manufactured uncertainty.

Comparing WDW or DCL to Walmart is laughable. One is an essential business. The other is very much not. And since I doubt very much that we'll be seeing cruises on either coast before 2021 (Florida doesn't actually have the final word on whether or not cruises can sail), I highly doubt that the different approaches between the states has anything to do with it.

Permission to operate can be yanked back in either case. I guarantee that if the Florida theme park reopenings don't go well that's exactly what happens. We are in a pandemic. There is no certainty.

 

[grx]

Would there be any business sense to just repositioning the Wonder to the western side of the canal for the time being but not transiting through?

 

[Ralph&Pam]

It cost around $150k or more to go through the canal. Smaller yachts can go through for $800-$3,200 but they go through with a larger ship. You have to book your time that you want to go through, however, they keep a few slots open per day to auction off, which I know can go for as little as $90k, but usually goes for more than the standard price. If a working boat gets there earlier than expected, they could lose anywhere from $25k to $80k a day waiting for their time.

Fun fact, the cheapest that someone went through was 26 cents back in the 1920s(?) and he was swimming it.

Canal tolls have gotten more expensive in the past few years. $150K would be a substantial bargain for the Wonder to transit with the usual load of passengers. We’ve done both EBPC (2017) and WBPC (2019) cruises on the Wonder. Captain Puckett (a retired canal pilot) did a series of lectures on each of these cruises. He indicated that the tolls DCL pays (including premiums to get a reserved slot to start the transit early in the queue on a particular day) are in excess of $500K. The toll calculation formula is very complicated. Also, the Wonder has to use the new canal locks since it’s too big to use the original locks after the ship was modified for better fuel efficiency. The Wonder was the first cruise ship to transit the new locks on the WBPC sailing in spring of 2017.

 

[GPaLarry]

When we did our EBPC in 2008 a crew member told us that the cost of the Magic (not the Wonder at the time) to transit the Panama Canal was about $350,000. They also expected it to be more expensive, around $400,000, to transit the other way. I can not confirm, but I am sure it is pricey. The PC cruise was our first with DCL and we loved it...too bad it may go through basically empty.

 

[spiders]

Comparing WDW or DCL to Walmart is laughable. One is an essential business. The other is very much not. And since I doubt very much that we'll be seeing cruises on either coast before 2021 (Florida doesn't actually have the final word on whether or not cruises can sail), I highly doubt that the different approaches between the states has anything to do with it.

Permission to operate can be yanked back in either case. I guarantee that if the Florida theme park reopenings don't go well that's exactly what happens. We are in a pandemic. There is no certainty.

Every non-essential business is very essential to those whose livelihoods depend on them. The world is starting to slowly reopen and it's not waiting for a vaccine. There are currently 9,000 flights in the air, globally, at this time. That's still down 50% but it's up from where it was in April.

 

[T & R]

What direct information do you have about the reasons that DCL has for moving the Wonder?

There are several articles that have been published since 05/29 stating the Disney Wonder's sailings cannot be salvaged due to the recent ban extensions.

Comparing WDW or DCL to Walmart is laughable. One is an essential business.

Calling Walmart an essential business is laughable but it wasn't meant to be a comparison. Just stating that you are no safer at Walmart yet it's open. Going to Walmart is optional just as going to a themepark may be. Why should the Walmart employees get to keep their jobs while the Disney employees are put into unemployment due only to the opinion of a Governor that Disney needs to be closed. If Disney is truly dangerous and needs to be closed, then do it the right way and use your legislature instead of ruling by decree.

 

[SamFaniam]

Deleted OT quote and my OT response.

Actually, my post doesn’t belong here either. Sorry @AquaDame So, I will just say I am interested to see what’s happening with the Wonder, and look forward to following her journey east.

 

[spiders]

Walmart is the worlds largest grocer, how are they not essential?

I don't think anyone had a problem with Walmart having it's grocery store...it was the other 75% of the store being open that a lot of other businesses had issues with who were closed down selling the exact same items except they didn't have a grocery store attached to it.

 

[T & R]

I just wanted to know if you had any actual information if that was the reason. I did not see it contributing to the discussion about why and how the Wonder is moving, I saw it as another of your political diatribes againstCalifornia’s policies.

Cruise ships have been closed to San Diego since March (by decree). CA then went on later to do an additional bans concerning crews. Now how exactly would that not be a contributing reason on why the Wonder was moved? The only thing the Wonder was permitted to do was receive fuel (at CA prices) and food as long as no employees set foot off of the ship. To act as if this had no bearing on the Wonder being moved out is incredible.

Also, it's not a political diatribe against California policies if those "policies" (order by decree) have an effect on the Wonder's ability to operate as a business. It is entirely within the framework of the thread's title when the thread's title ends in a question mark thus asking the question and soliciting responses from us on why the Wonder's move to PC. You have some states that are not instituting bans on passengers and crew and some that are. California just happens to be one of the ones that are (by decree). Pointing that out is factual and not a diatribe.

 

[AquaDame]

Cruise ships have been closed to San Diego since March (by decree). CA then went on later to do an additional bans concerning crews. Now how exactly would that not be a contributing reason on why the Wonder was moved? The only thing the Wonder was permitted to do was receive fuel (at CA prices) and food as long as no employees set foot off of the ship. To act as if this had no bearing on the Wonder being moved out is incredible.

Also, it's not a political diatribe against California policies if those "policies" (order by decree) have an effect on the Wonder's ability to operate as a business. It is entirely within the framework of the thread's title when the thread's title ends in a question mark thus asking the question and soliciting responses from us on why the Wonder's move to PC. You have some states that are not instituting bans on passengers and crew and some that are. California just happens to be one of the ones that are (by decree). Pointing that out is factual and not a diatribe.

Since she's been sitting off the coast of San Diego since the "decrees" as you put it, I wouldn't blame those bans on making her move back through the canal NOW. Its just as likely the extended ban by Canada is causing the sudden shift since the timing makes more sense. The question mark in the title only denotes that this started out as a question - OP was asking if it was true that the Wonder was heading back through the canal.

We can all read between the lines and pick up on your feelings abut the politics behind the "decrees" of the California governor versus Florida. Whether or not the governor's orders are legal and binding will be decided by the courts - there are already numerous suits against them considering their possible overreach. Lets get back on topic and leave Walmart (a grocery and goods store where youre encouraged to get in and out in a quick manner as infrequently as you can) versus a theme park (where you linger for days in crowds for entertainment purposes) to the community board.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I don't think anyone had a problem with Walmart having it's grocery store...it was the other 75% of the store being open that a lot of other businesses had issues with who were closed down selling the exact same items except they didn't have a grocery store attached to it.

Possibly because a one-stop shop is less risky than having to make multiple stops to get the same items.

 

[CM Dad]

Fun fact, the cheapest that someone went through was 26 cents back in the 1920s(?) and he was swimming it.

The cheapest toll ever paid to travel the canal was 36 cents in 1928 by Richard Halliburton, who swam the length of the canal

https://panamaforbeginners.com/23-facts-know-panama-canal/

 

[spiders]

Possibly because a one-stop shop is less risky than having to make multiple stops to get the same items.

I don't believe that for a second. If social distancing is the key then crowding everybody into the same store doesn't make any sense.

 

[Deb in IA]

We were on the WBPC in March and honestly I think that had the stoppage happened just a day or two earlier, we wouldn’t have gone through the canal. When we got off the ship I had a strong feeling that the Wonder would go back through the canal without doing a single cruise on the west coast.

I think having the Wonder alone on the west coast has been a challenge for Disney and I’m not surprised they’re trying to bring her back. HoweverI also don’t think she or any other cruise line will be sailing this fall. Even without various government restrictions (not just CA and Florida but every country they would be sailing to) no cruise line wants to be another Grand Princess or Diamond Princess or the Zaandam. I don’t think Disney even wants a repeat of the WBPC and until there is a vaccine or proven treatment there is too great a likelihood that that will happen.

We were on that cruise too, and I agree with you.
In a way, we were fortunate to have made that trip. With how quickly things changed, I am sure we likely would have had our cruise cancelled as well.

It must be a sad, lonely trip for the Wonder to be coming back through the canal.

 

[MomOTwins]

This whole Walmart thing is jumping the shark a tad in terms of off topic-ness (not sure it has anything to do with the Wonder), but because as a lawyer I can't resist a good argument:

(1) I totally think it is an essential business in many places--in my husband's tiny hometown, it is really the only major store other than some small mom and pop places that can't possibly stock the whole town, and where everyone goes for their food, pharmacy, home repair, diapers, you name it.

(2) I am absolutely horrified by every time I go in our Sam's Club (run by Walmart) which I go to because it lets me stock up and go shopping less frequently. No matter how much I try to social distance--e.g., crossing to the other side of the aisle--people will come right up and reach over/around me as I'm lifting an item in my cart. Nobody observes the spacers at the checkout, and there is no plexiglass barrier. Even the staff will still come and "help you" unload your cart onto the checkout conveyer, and they also insist on having a staff member come right up and poke through your cart at the exit to check its contents against your receipt. And worst, because I'm in a part of the country that largely believes coronavirus is a hoax, NOBODY is wearing masks, and I actually got followed up and down several aisles by someone berating me for wearing one. The idea of being at Disney, with everyone in masks, friendly CMs practicing and enforcing social distancing, with enforced capacity limits, actually sounds delightful compared to my Sam's Club/Walmart,

So I guess I am on both sides of this argument. Walmart is more essential than a cruise and deserves to be open while a cruise does not need to be. And yet I'd rather be on a cruise than a Walmart where I live!

 

[KVH]

I don't believe that for a second. If social distancing is the key then crowding everybody into the same store doesn't make any sense.

It must be like swimming at the World. You don't need a mask in the pool as your germs magically disappear in the water. They only reappear to infect others when you get out of the pool (with all due respect to PrincessShmoo).

 

[PrincessShmoo]

(2) I am absolutely horrified by every time I go in our Sam's Club (run by Walmart) which I go to because it lets me stock up and go shopping less frequently. No matter how much I try to social distance--e.g., crossing to the other side of the aisle--people will come right up and reach over/around me as I'm lifting an item in my cart. Nobody observes the spacers at the checkout, and there is no plexiglass barrier. Even the staff will still come and "help you" unload your cart onto the checkout conveyer, and they also insist on having a staff member come right up and poke through your cart at the exit to check its contents against your receipt. And worst, because I'm in a part of the country that largely believes coronavirus is a hoax, NOBODY is wearing masks, and I actually got followed up and down several aisles by someone berating me for wearing one. The idea of being at Disney, with everyone in masks, friendly CMs practicing and enforcing social distancing, with enforced capacity limits, actually sounds delightful compared to my Sam's Club/Walmart,

That's totally NOT how it is at our Sam's Club.

Yes, there are some people who travel past in the aisles that are not 6 feet away, but at least they are wearing masks. Not a lot, but some.

They've installed plexiglass barriers at the check stands.

The cart unloaders are still there, but you can ask that they not "help".

At the door we have to hold up our receipt for the door checker to scan the bar code on it, and then they scan the bar code one of the items in the cart (there's usually one on top).

There's also senior hours, and valet pick up available during those hours. You drive up, give them your shopping list, and a employee gets your stuff, brings it back out to your car and unloads it into your trunk. Only contact there, you have to put your credit card into their reader to pay.

 

[Husker Mike]

I wonder if it would be cheaper to take the long way around Cape Horn instead of passing through the Panama Canal? I don't think Disney is in any hurry to get the Wonder back into the Atlantic.

 

[AquaDame]

I wonder if it would be cheaper to take the long way around Cape Horn instead of passing through the Panama Canal? I don't think Disney is in any hurry to get the Wonder back into the Atlantic.

Sounds like that would be a LOT of fuel burned though... is the price still at historic lows?

 

[bbel]

The only thing the Wonder was permitted to do was receive fuel (at CA prices) and food as long as no employees set foot off of the ship. To act as if this had no bearing on the Wonder being moved out is incredible.

I don't think this had any reason to with the wonder being moved. Canada's restrictions, yes, but crew not being allowed off, absolutely not.
Once/if they move to Florida, it's exactly the same (right now). The magic is sitting in Dover, but the crew arent allowed off. They will only be getting supplied and fuel from Dover.

Where ever they are in the world, US waters/ports or not, ships are pretty much following the same rules.