Open letter to Disney concerning new TSA full body scan.

[maxiesmom]

You do Sam. Get scanned and fly or don't get scanned and take a bus or train or drive.

This isn't the time or place to make sense. Stop it!

The only way to make the TSA re-think what they are doing is for enough people to stop flying that the airlines start caring. You can bet if enough people skip flying the airlines will be looking for new, better security measures toot-suite!

 

[eliza61]

This isn't the time or place to make sense. Stop it!

The only way to make the TSA re-think what they are doing is for enough people to stop flying that the airlines start caring. You can bet if enough people skip flying the airlines will be looking for new, better security measures toot-suite!

Let me ask you MM, how far would you go for those "better security". Sorry, I've flown all over the world and Americans talk a good game but we don't deliver.

Have you ever flown to Tel Aviv? Israel by agreement has some of the best security in the world but lets look at the video tape shall we.

1) Their TSA agents are trained professionals, in fact many are members of their military and they make a very nice penny thank you very much. they get extensive, costly training. Now considering every body in this country feels they should be able to fly for 9.99 exactly where are we going to get these professionals?

2) you think scanners are invasive. girlfriend, when you drive up to Tel Aviv airport each car is stopped by armed (and I mean with serious machine guns), they can and have searched the vehicle. Cameras take a picture of your license plate before you are let onto the parking lot.

3) Questioned? passengers are questioned. I don't mean that stupid nonsense about "has anyone given you a bag not belonging to you". I mean, may I see your papers, what are you doing here, where are you going.

4) Bag searches. they have and will retain the right to search your bags, they will ask to see the pictures in your camera, your cell phone log. They have no problem pulling you aside and going through your bag piece by piece. Also when your bags are checked in they are checked in with a person trained and qualified to handle explosives and bombs. Once again, you can't expect to get this level of expertise if all you're going to pay them is $8.25/hour.

5) closed circuit cameras are following you ever move.
6) profiling is routine.

All this is done before you even get near the gate.

Can you honestly see any of this flying in this country? so the problem isn't that our security can't do a better job, our American sensibilities will not allow for methods that have currently been shown to work.

Now in the interest of full disclosure Israels Ben Guin (sp?) is very small so they have it a bit easier.

 

[N965VJ]

Can you honestly see any of this flying in this country? so the problem isn't that our security can't do a better job, our American sensibilities will not allow for methods that have currently been shown to work.

There's more to it than that; TLV-style security is not scalable to the scope of commercial air traffic in the States.

 

[eliza61]

There's more to it than that; TLV-style security is not scalable to the scope of commercial air traffic in the States.

Oh I know there are logistics due to the size of our airports but that would be the least of our problems.

Our mindset would have to change and that's not going to happen, at least that's the way I see it.

look at the outrage now about the invasion of privacy over fuzzy images. Now can you image the outrage if even a tiny airport hired arm guards who questioned why you were at the airport and you knew your cars lisence plate was being photograph.
All heck would break loose.

we couldn't even get past the first obstacle to worry about scaling it up.

Ok so let's talk about some thing doable. Can you image the outrage if police or military had the right to pull passengers to the side and conduct a random thorough search? Call me cynical but the nano second this happen people would start kevetching about their "rights" and how roughly their clothes are being handled.

I'm sticking with my stance. we want great airport security but
1) we want it cheaply
2) we don't want to be inconvenienced (sorry, spelling)

 

[CPT Tripss]

Do report back on whether the wands are still in use and whether the TSAer uses the front or back of her hand on your crotch and breasts. Also let us know whether the patdown is fully explained to you before it starts.

Feel free to take pictures, it is not illegal. Please pay particular attention to the location and size of the signs advising about the WBI/AIT.

Anyone who thinks there is fool proof security is sadly mistaken. TSA needs to eliminate the nonsense that doesn't reduce risk or increase security and just stick to what works.

 

[maxiesmom]

Do report back on whether the wands are still in use and whether the TSAer uses the front or back of her hand on your crotch and breasts. Also let us know whether the patdown is fully explained to you before it starts.

Feel free to take pictures, it is not illegal. Please pay particular attention to the location and size of the signs advising about the WBI/AIT.

Anyone who thinks there is fool proof security is sadly mistaken. TSA needs to eliminate the nonsense that doesn't reduce risk or increase security and just stick to what works.

I plan on reporting back after I fly next month. My eyes will be wide open, looking to see what they are doing and what kind of attitutde both the passangers and TSA agents have.

 

[mch04049]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this or not.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/krolman1.1.1.html

My family & I got back from Disney (FL) last month and we did not have to go thru thr full body scan machines at either midway or orlando. However it appears that the machines will begin to see more use in more airports. As such the growing concern is

1) your image or that of your family being stored and/or uploaded to the web
2) the radiation dosage that you are exposed to each time you take a "picture"
3) the enchanced pat-down that occurs should you opt-out (for now) of the full body scan.

The link above goes to a letter someone wrote to disney regarding this issue and not knowing how to "get to" disney for a vacation.

I think this is a small price to pay considering the alternative to what might happen if they didn' t do this type search. You always have the option on rail or driving. I know you are probably too far away for this, but it is what it is at this point.

 

[eliza61]

Do report back on whether the wands are still in use and whether the TSAer uses the front or back of her hand on your crotch and breasts. Also let us know whether the patdown is fully explained to you before it starts.

Feel free to take pictures, it is not illegal. Please pay particular attention to the location and size of the signs advising about the WBI/AIT.

Anyone who thinks there is fool proof security is sadly mistaken. TSA needs to eliminate the nonsense that doesn't reduce risk or increase security and just stick to what works.

Like others have pointed out, much of what works we either don't want to pay for or we have the pesky little constitution in the way.

Random checks work: How far would that fly in this country? would you go for being randomly pulled aside and thoroughly checked? NO you would not.
Bomb sniffing dogs: Dogs are great, they are also very expensive. each dog cost 10-20K plus dogs must have a paid handler. multiply that by the need for each major airport would need at least 10-15 dogs. Dogs also are retired every 5-7 years. Once again, be honest are you willing to absorb the cost?
In this country? the home of "I want to fly every where for $19.99. Please gimme a break
Better personnel works You guys complain about the TSA agents, do you really think you are going to get competent trained individuals who want to do the work for 16 bucks/ hour. for all our math challenge individuals like me (I had to google this) thats roughly 33,000 bucks a year pre tax. Good luck with that one. Just to give you a reference. the national poverty level for a family of 4 is 22,000. this is just above poverty level. disclosure: I'm a NYC born and bred gal. a shoe box of an apartment is 2000 bucks a month so my views on liveable wages is probably skewed.


So before you gripe about how things should be done. be truthful and ask if you are willing to make the sacrifices that good security require. Both monetarily and morally.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I am not prepared to make moral "sacrifices," or have increased government interference in my life, or cede constitutional protections and priciples in the name of "security." To say anymore would take me into Godwin territory.

 

[eliza61]

I am not prepared to make moral "sacrifices," or have increased government interference in my life, or cede constitutional protections and priciples in the name of "security." To say anymore would take me into Godwin territory.

and there in lies the problem. What do you think would work that could fit all these "parameters"? Has to be cheap, effective, efficient, and not tread on some ones toes?

Hey you must not be far from me. I'm in south Jersey also. got my next flight out of Philly tomorrow. What is WBI/AIt

 

[DVC-Don]

I just sent a snail mail to:

Arthur M.M. Krolman
CFA Founder and President
Krolman Corporation
56 Roland St., Suite 201 Boston, MA 02129

..........and told him basically he's a nut for sending this to Disney. It'll probably come back from the PO as a qoogle search shows a different address for this corp. Urban legend?

My letter came back stamped "Unable to deliver as addressed".

 

[disney david]

Like others have pointed out, much of what works we either don't want to pay for or we have the pesky little constitution in the way.


Bomb sniffing dogs: Dogs are great, they are also very expensive. each dog cost 10-20K plus dogs must have a paid handler. multiply that by the need for each major airport would need at least 10-15 dogs. Dogs also are retired every 5-7 years. Once again, be honest are you willing to absorb the cost?
In this country? the home of "I want to fly every where for $19.99. Please gimme a break


YOu dont pay for the dogs with your airline tickets you pay out of your taxes so your argument dosnt make sense. If they get more dogs then your taxes might go up. The tsa dosnet have bomb sniffing dogs he local police use them because they have to patrol the airports. Unless it's in a international part of the airport then they are fedreal police dogs used by the cbp officers they use dog to sniff out bombs, drugs,weapons,moey,food. By the way the paid handler is a police officer and is not an extra officer just and specailly trained one to work with the k-9. So it dosnet coast that much more.

 

[FireDancer]

Disney isn't the company to contact if you do not like TSA rules, the TSA is. Any letter about not liking their policies should be address to them, their overseers (Homeland Security), the secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano (or in reality her office), or your senator or representative.

Whether or not your worries are legitimate or not is a matter for debate but you are free to express your opinion, just express it to the right people and The Walt Disney company isn't the proper person in this case. If the cast members start doing enhanced pat downs at the gates or for every ride then Disney would be the people to write your letter to.

 

[Lewisc]

YOu dont pay for the dogs with your airline tickets you pay out of your taxes so your argument dosnt make sense. If they get more dogs then your taxes might go up. The tsa dosnet have bomb sniffing dogs he local police use them because they have to patrol the airports. Unless it's in a international part of the airport then they are fedreal police dogs used by the cbp officers they use dog to sniff out bombs, drugs,weapons,moey,food. By the way the paid handler is a police officer and is not an extra officer just and specailly trained one to work with the k-9. So it dosnet coast that much more.

At least part of the cost of airport security is financed by the 9-11 security fee. We pay that fee when we purchase an airline ticket. More expensive securityy might result in the fee being increased.

 

[disney david]

At least part of the cost of airport security is financed by the 9-11 security fee. We pay that fee when we purchase an airline ticket. More expensive securityy might result in the fee being increased.

yes you are 100 percent right that goes to the gov for tsa but the local polie that patrol with the k-9s arent getting alot of that money. The tsa and the local police that patrol airport are seprate. That why when you go to mco you see the orlando police and when you leave your home airport you will see your home police wheater state or local patroling in and around the airport. the tsa just handle the securty chek points and and serching passangers.

 

[disney david]

I guess i was a little wrong the tsa dose have thier own k-9 teams but mostly use local police k-9s.



http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/alb_canine.shtm

 

[Lewisc]

yes you are 100 percent right that goes to the gov for tsa but the local polie that patrol with the k-9s arent getting alot of that money. The tsa and the local police that patrol airport are seprate. That why when you go to mco you see the orlando police and when you leave your home airport you will see your home police wheater state or local patroling in and around the airport. the tsa just handle the securty chek points and and serching passangers.

The local police don't have infinite resources. The point is if people want bomb sniffing dogs in airports on an ongoing basis then the TSA will probably have to pay for it them.

 

[CPT Tripss]

and there in lies the problem. What do you think would work that could fit all these "parameters"? Has to be cheap, effective, efficient, and not tread on some ones toes?

Hey you must not be far from me. I'm in south Jersey also. got my next flight out of Philly tomorrow. What is WBI/AIt

WBI - whole body imager, the name was recently changed by TSA to AIT - advanced imaging technology so they were not openly acknowledging that one's whole body was being seen.

First and foremost, TSA must let citizens and other flyers know what to expect when going through airport security. That's the only way we know whether we are experiencing the actions of a rogue employee or proper screening.

Then the process should be along the lines of
Metal detectors and puffers as primary screening for everyone.
Escalate as necessary to explosive swabs if puffer alarms, wanding if WTMD and if neither of these resolve the issue, then a "frisk".
Eliminate shoe removal - swab if an alarm or if the shoes appear to be tampered with.
Eliminate the ID check - that's nothing more than a way for the airline to keep me from selling my "nonrefundable" ticket to you.
Eliminate shoe removal unless explosive detector alarms and then xray shoes. Most of us know which of our shoes have metal and will alarm and most of us are bright enough not to wear them to the airport . . . if just a metal alarm, visual examine shoes and xray if they appear tampered with.

Permit sealed containers of liquids as carry ons. Permit unsealed beverages when the passenger drinks from the container.

TSA scanning of everything that goes into the baggage hold of an airplane . . . eliminate "trusted shipper."

 

[eliza61]

Like others have pointed out, much of what works we either don't want to pay for or we have the pesky little constitution in the way.


Bomb sniffing dogs: Dogs are great, they are also very expensive. each dog cost 10-20K plus dogs must have a paid handler. multiply that by the need for each major airport would need at least 10-15 dogs. Dogs also are retired every 5-7 years. Once again, be honest are you willing to absorb the cost?
In this country? the home of "I want to fly every where for $19.99. Please gimme a break


YOu dont pay for the dogs with your airline tickets you pay out of your taxes so your argument dosnt make sense. If they get more dogs then your taxes might go up. The tsa dosnet have bomb sniffing dogs he local police use them because they have to patrol the airports. Unless it's in a international part of the airport then they are fedreal police dogs used by the cbp officers they use dog to sniff out bombs, drugs,weapons,moey,food. By the way the paid handler is a police officer and is not an extra officer just and specailly trained one to work with the k-9. So it dosnet coast that much more.

You're wrong. I know canine officer in NYC there is a big difference between police dogs and bomb squad dogs. most of the time they are not interchangeable and most officers are not interchangeable. so my argument makes perfect sense.

Ahh, I already see you corrected your mistake. I'll end it here.

 

[CPT Tripss]

My letter came back stamped "Unable to deliver as addressed".

Maybe you should google him and get a correct address.