Here now, OMG buses.

[goofy4tink]

Because not all cultures think of the right as right. The entire walk is an entirely different story though.

Hoping not to get in trouble posting on a topic that is not talk about boats, busses, monorail but since you posted the warning then did not follow the topic, I should be safe.

I completely understand that. But, here's the thing. When we traveled to London a few years ago, I knew that I was going to have to get used to a different way of doing things. For instance....using escalators in London is very different than here. You had best stay to the right, single file, to allow those that want to walk on that escalator to get past you. If you stand next to your friend, you will get some not so nice comments from those you are preventing from passing.
If traveling in a different country, it behooves you to figure out how to do 'things'...doesn't matter what it is. I do cut obvious foreigners some slack. But when I see the family from say, Texas, walking at me, without moving over even a little bit?? Yep, I get annoyed. And yes, you can tell if someone is from 'here' vs not from here.
So now??? I will admit to getting a wee bit passive aggressive. I look down and keep right on track. I have been walked into, banged as I went past, etc. And this has been while I was about 2' from the edge of the far right of the sidewalk!!! I guess they figured I should just step into the shrubs and wait for them to pass!!!

 

[1stvisit0909]

I completely understand that. But, here's the thing. When we traveled to London a few years ago, I knew that I was going to have to get used to a different way of doing things. For instance....using escalators in London is very different than here. You had best stay to the right, single file, to allow those that want to walk on that escalator to get past you. If you stand next to your friend, you will get some not so nice comments from those you are preventing from passing.

this isn't just London! you'll get the same looks in metropolitan areas of the USA. I was quickly corrected on my first trip to DC using the metro.
So, when I am in a new place, I try to watch a bit to see how any "locals" are handling transportation. Its Dif at Disney, b/c most arent "locals" on the busses. So we do our best to get our stuff in and out of the way, and give others the benefit of the doubt for not being "local" too.

 

[North of Mouse]

this isn't just London! you'll get the same looks in metropolitan areas of the USA. I was quickly corrected on my first trip to DC using the metro.
So, when I am in a new place, I try to watch a bit to see how any "locals" are handling transportation. Its Dif at Disney, b/c most arent "locals" on the busses. So we do our best to get our stuff in and out of the way, and give others the benefit of the doubt for not being "local" too.

Absolutely right! We lived in MD, just no. of DC so used the metro quite often, and you could tell the locals from the tourists by where they stood on the escalator. The locals almost always walk the whole way down, and will tell people to *please* (or not) let you by It's the etiquette there, and it's best to learn it quickly LOL

 

[lylone]

All I ask is that when giving out answers, we all try to do so politely. There is no room for snarkiness here. Well, other than me, anyway!!!
So, welcome. I hope you have good times here. We are a friendly bunch..usually.

You snarky? More like straight and to the point, but not snarky in my book!

 

[goofy4tink]

You snarky? More like straight and to the point, but not snarky in my book!

Ohhhh, I've had my moments, believe me. But I hope that I choose the right posters to get snarky with!!!! There's a time and a place!!!

 

[waynesgirl]

Why would someone intentionally be so rude to others as to not give a crap about anyone other than themselves and their family? I can't imagine being that rude. Maybe the kid behind you is tired and wants to get to their hotel just as much as you want your little angel to wake up gently.

Unfortunately, since the entire thread has blown out of control and most posts were deleted, this is kinda hanging out there like the infamous chads of 2004. But I will say, thank you for saying this, even though you are now probably being given the curse of the pirates from someone's desktop.

Unfortunately, this thread just goes to highlight what is really fundamentally wrong...no one has common courtesy anymore.

Regardless if you need a stroller, it is still not very courteous to the other parents around you who want to quickly get on the bus that they have been waiting behind you patiently for and then for you to make everyone else wait when if those same parents had been in front of you, your wait wouldn't have been impacted.

Same goes for ECVs...if the line of people who have been waiting- in the sun, in the rain, in the cold, etc- for over 45 minutes for a bus and you pull up on your ECV just as the bus does, then you basically didn't wait your turn as they will load you first. Arguing that being on an ECV doesn't give you front of the line access might very well be truthful, but, if you are on an ECV, think about it that way. As a parent of a very heavy and sleeping child, with a stroller already folded and holding said child, you should understand why some people will give you dirty looks and say things. It doesn't make it right by any means, but the same people who are expected to give courtesy might appreciate it in return...which brings me back to my point:

Courtesy is a dying thing in our world...I said before and I will say again....it is the holidays. Treat other people with love and understanding, especially this time of year, and you will be surprised how far it spreads.

 

[disney212]

I have read this entire thread and I want to add my 2 cents about the ECV's. One of of posts mentioned "fat and lazy" folks on EVC's and their issue with them. I will be using an ECV on my trip in December for the first time and I am feeling very self-conscious about it. I am also now considered fat. It is because I am lazy and eat too much. Not in the least, it is due to all of the surgeries and treatments for cancer I have undergone in the last year. I also now have a huge back issue (also caused from the treatments) and have gained almost 100 lbs due in part to the steroids. The doctor says the only way I can go on my trip in December is with a scooter so I do not cause more nerve damage. I am not fat nor lazy, in fact I am the opposite. Less than 24 hours after having 1/2 of my lung removed I walked almost 1 mile on the treadmill, the doctor told me he had never saw anyone walk that far that soon before. I had a follow up doctor appointment today and told him how I just didn't seem to be able to loose the weight. He told me it was normal and once I had my back surgery (nothing to do with my sudden weight gain) and was able to get off those awful steroids that my weight should start to drop. I have a stomach disorder so no junk food for me without risking getting violently ill for days. I was very lucky it was caught very early and I survived. I am glad I posted on the disabilities board first and received tremendous support because had I read this first I would not have had the courage to arrange for a scooter and would possible missed out on what I hope to be a wonderful trip. DH and I do the parks commando and have for several years. We walk all day and have never had an issue with an EVC or a stroller. Have folks bumped in me, sure; have i bumped into them, sure. We find that a simple "excuse me" or "I am sorry" works wonders both ways. So if you see a fat chick on a ECV with Christmas decorations and a big goofy grin on her face that says, "I am happy to be alive" be sure to say hello. I learned life is too short to worry about other people.

 

[Burnedout]

Unfortunately it would be equal if there were equal capacity for ecv's. if 4 pull up at the same time and there is no one in the regular line, two are waiting for the next bus.

 

[Talking Hands]

In the past, when I arrived just before the bus and there has been a long line I have offered to wait but the driver has told me know he will load me and not to worry about it. I am quite willing to wait in that circumstance. What I do not like is being near the front of the line in a mainstreamed line at MK and being told to wait for the next bus because they have already started loading able bodied guests. If I am near enough to the front of the line to be able to load and have a seat as an able bodied person then I expect to be loaded on that bus and not be asked to wait for the next one. It has happened to me and it isn't equal access.

 

[goofy4tink]

I have read this entire thread and I want to add my 2 cents about the ECV's. One of of posts mentioned "fat and lazy" folks on EVC's and their issue with them. I will be using an ECV on my trip in December for the first time and I am feeling very self-conscious about it. I am also now considered fat. It is because I am lazy and eat too much. Not in the least, it is due to all of the surgeries and treatments for cancer I have undergone in the last year. I also now have a huge back issue (also caused from the treatments) and have gained almost 100 lbs due in part to the steroids. The doctor says the only way I can go on my trip in December is with a scooter so I do not cause more nerve damage. I am not fat nor lazy, in fact I am the opposite. Less than 24 hours after having 1/2 of my lung removed I walked almost 1 mile on the treadmill, the doctor told me he had never saw anyone walk that far that soon before. I had a follow up doctor appointment today and told him how I just didn't seem to be able to loose the weight. He told me it was normal and once I had my back surgery (nothing to do with my sudden weight gain) and was able to get off those awful steroids that my weight should start to drop. I have a stomach disorder so no junk food for me without risking getting violently ill for days. I was very lucky it was caught very early and I survived. I am glad I posted on the disabilities board first and received tremendous support because had I read this first I would not have had the courage to arrange for a scooter and would possible missed out on what I hope to be a wonderful trip. DH and I do the parks commando and have for several years. We walk all day and have never had an issue with an EVC or a stroller. Have folks bumped in me, sure; have i bumped into them, sure. We find that a simple "excuse me" or "I am sorry" works wonders both ways. So if you see a fat chick on a ECV with Christmas decorations and a big goofy grin on her face that says, "I am happy to be alive" be sure to say hello. I learned life is too short to worry about other people.

Now, that's a good attitude. When do you get to WDW in Dec? Maybe we're there at the same time???
I have spent time with someone using an ECV at WDW. She uses it at home as well. And I have to say that my eyes were opened that night!!! She is very good on that thing....and yet, people were always cutting her off, stopping dead in front of her, giving her the hairy eyeball when she arrived at the bus stop...even though there was a grand total of 4 people standing there when we arrived.

In the past, when I arrived just before the bus and there has been a long line I have offered to wait but the driver has told me know he will load me and not to worry about it. I am quite willing to wait in that circumstance. What I do not like is being near the front of the line in a mainstreamed line at MK and being told to wait for the next bus because they have already started loading able bodied guests. If I am near enough to the front of the line to be able to load and have a seat as an able bodied person then I expect to be loaded on that bus and not be asked to wait for the next one. It has happened to me and it isn't equal access.

And that's the issue. How the heck do they expect to mainstream ECVs in the bus line??? Basically the system worked the way it was.....you motor on up to that special ECV spot, you wait for the bus to come, like everyone else, and you are boarded first. Now, you were supposed to be at the bus stop when the bus arrived..not just puttering in at the same time as the bus. I truly doubt many people would have an issue if they saw you sitting there, waiting the same as them. And that whole 'entire party goes with the ECV'? Nope, shouldn't be the case. But, I've already gone on and on about that.

 

[lylone]

In the past, when I arrived just before the bus and there has been a long line I have offered to wait but the driver has told me know he will load me and not to worry about it. I am quite willing to wait in that circumstance. What I do not like is being near the front of the line in a mainstreamed line at MK and being told to wait for the next bus because they have already started loading able bodied guests. If I am near enough to the front of the line to be able to load and have a seat as an able bodied person then I expect to be loaded on that bus and not be asked to wait for the next one. It has happened to me and it isn't equal access.

So, should they unload the bus to load you in? or let you load on top of people?

 

[goofy4tink]

So, should they unload the bus to load you in? or let you load on top of people?

Actually, if she is sitting there, waiting when the bus pulls up??? She should be boarded first. That allows for the bus to kneel if need be. It is supposed to be a safety issue...and I thought it was the law that ECV/wheelchair were supposed to board before anyone else. But, that may have gone away.

I have no issue with someone being boarded first. Here's the thing....let's say there are 50 people in the line, all waiting. There is an ECV midway through the line. Those people that have taken seats where the ECV will go, are now going to have to get up, and find other seats when the ECV gets to the bus door!! As well as making everyone wait in any case, while the driver helps the ECV guest board the bus. VS....having the ECV waiting as the bus drives up...then gets boarded first.
You are still waiting..but no one is going to be displaced by the ECV being boarded later in the process.

There is no perfect system...someone is going to be penalized in some way. And someone is always going to feel that the person on the ECV is getting preferential treatment. I really believe that Disney needs to change the number of people that get to board with the ECV..if they change it to say, four, then I doubt most will be offended. It's those that board with huge groups that really irritate others who have been waiting in line. Not to mention that if the rest of the group has to wait in the line to board, it will show that the ECV hasn't just pulled up, expecting to board right then!!!

 

[chainkid]

Boy my group is really going to be hated as we have three people using ECVs. Luckily we are having too much fun to care what others are doing. I could gripe all day about all the bad habits people have both in and out of the parks but I don't let it ruin my time. I'm sure i will make people even madder because i share mine with my husband as i like to walk as much as i can before my arthritis kicks in so he often will ride the EVC until i cannot take it anymore. If making a face at me or getting steamed is going to help you enjoy your vacation go for it because I have no intention of letting it ruin my vacation. I'm neither fat nor lazy or even rude and you do not have to be on an ECV to be all of those things. Walk a mile in someone's painful shoes and you might think differently but then we all age and those complaining now will soon feel the sting

 

[Burnedout]

So, should they unload the bus to load you in? or let you load on top of people?

So fair is only for able bodied people?

 

[bumbershoot]

Actually, if she is sitting there, waiting when the bus pulls up??? She should be boarded first. That allows for the bus to kneel if need be. It is supposed to be a safety issue...and I thought it was the law that ECV/wheelchair were supposed to board before anyone else. But, that may have gone away.

I have no issue with someone being boarded first. Here's the thing....let's say there are 50 people in the line, all waiting. There is an ECV midway through the line. Those people that have taken seats where the ECV will go, are now going to have to get up, and find other seats when the ECV gets to the bus door!! As well as making everyone wait in any case, while the driver helps the ECV guest board the bus. VS....having the ECV waiting as the bus drives up...then gets boarded first.
You are still waiting..but no one is going to be displaced by the ECV being boarded later in the process.

There is no perfect system...someone is going to be penalized in some way. And someone is always going to feel that the person on the ECV is getting preferential treatment. I really believe that Disney needs to change the number of people that get to board with the ECV..if they change it to say, four, then I doubt most will be offended. It's those that board with huge groups that really irritate others who have been waiting in line. Not to mention that if the rest of the group has to wait in the line to board, it will show that the ECV hasn't just pulled up, expecting to board right then!!!

That's the system I liked. Seemed the best.

But I don't have a problem with the entire party getting on with the person on wheels. We have traveled at least part of the time on each of our WDW trips in a group of 8, and if my aunt ever decides to stop hurting herself by walking, I would not want to be *forced* to split up. We might *choose* to split up, but I don't like having to, simply based on someone in my party not being able to walk long distances. Doesn't sit right with me.

And note: no one in my party is in that position yet. We are all able to walk around at this point. And yet I still think it's right for the entire party of a person on wheels to board together.

Anyway, I liked the way of doing things you described, where the person requiring the special tie-down areas is boarded FIRST.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talking Hands

In the past, when I arrived just before the bus and there has been a long line I have offered to wait but the driver has told me know he will load me and not to worry about it. I am quite willing to wait in that circumstance. What I do not like is being near the front of the line in a mainstreamed line at MK and being told to wait for the next bus because they have already started loading able bodied guests. If I am near enough to the front of the line to be able to load and have a seat as an able bodied person then I expect to be loaded on that bus and not be asked to wait for the next one. It has happened to me and it isn't equal access.

So, should they unload the bus to load you in? or let you load on top of people?

well at some places where they have multiple bus stops like POR, i don't think they have a choice but to load ECVs onto partially full buses at times if the ECV isn't at the first stop. If they don't load it onto a partially occupied bus, the ECV user will NEVER get picked up.


Posted from Disney Forums Reader for Android

 

[disney212]

Now, that's a good attitude. When do you get to WDW in Dec? Maybe we're there at the same time???
I have spent time with someone using an ECV at WDW. She uses it at home as well. And I have to say that my eyes were opened that night!!! She is very good on that thing....and yet, people were always cutting her off, stopping dead in front of her, giving her the hairy eyeball when she arrived at the bus stop...even though there was a grand total of 4 people standing there when we arrived.



We arrive December 15th and leave the 23rd. Have to be back to spend Christmas with the family. I am not sure how good I will be at driving one but I do plan on practicing at Kroger and Home Depot very early (before 7am at Kroger) when no one is there. We have a rental car for most of our trip except the last 2 days. We are at BLT so we plan on sticking to MK and EPCOT the last two days so no buses for use unless the DTD urge hits us on Saturday night.

When are you going? This is our first time during Christmas. I have been the week after but never the week before.

 

[joelkfla]

I would not want to be *forced* to split up. We might *choose* to split up, but I don't like having to, simply based on someone in my party not being able to walk long distances. Doesn't sit right with me.

You're never forced to split up. You have a choice:

1. Split up, or
2. Wait until the rest of your party reaches the front of the line.

IMHO, the latter is the preferred option. It's just not feasible for Disney to make it universal because of the difficulty in figuring out when smaller parties board -- unless they reduce the number of guests boarding with the scooter user to 1, and make everyone else wait in the queue. Which would be difficult to enforce, and there would have to be exceptions: e.g. a party of 4 with 1 able-bodied adult, 1 challenged adult, and 2 kids (if the 2 adults are at the handicapped gate, who's watching the kids?)

 

[phorsenuf]

well at some places where they have multiple bus stops like POR, i don't think they have a choice but to load ECVs onto partially full buses at times if the ECV isn't at the first stop. If they don't load it onto a partially occupied bus, the ECV user will NEVER get picked up.


Posted from Disney Forums Reader for Android

They just won't let you on. My husband and I went to eat at Ohana one night and after dinner we went to take the bus to DTD. 4 buses came and left us behind because there were too many people on the bus. No other wheelchairs or ecv's, just people. We waited an hour, yes an hour, before a bus was finally sent to pick us up. We were just getting ready to call a cab. That was a fun night.

 

[Burnedout]

They just won't let you on. My husband and I went to eat at Ohana one night and after dinner we went to take the bus to DTD. 4 buses came and left us behind because there were too many people on the bus. No other wheelchairs or ecv's, just people. We waited an hour, yes an hour, before a bus was finally sent to pick us up. We were just getting ready to call a cab. That was a fun night.

The people who complain about how unfair it is when the ecvs are loaded first don't see a need for fair in these circumstances.