Idea to improve DAS

[lmb80129]

We used the new DAS system on Oct 19th and believe the only way it will work for us is if Disney goes to Universal's system and lets DAS holders use fast pass lines or alternate entrances for rides with a 30 minute or less wait. I would also like to see Disney give DAS holders some leeway on return times for normal fast pass returns.

After a day at Magic Kingdom using the DAS, our family agreed that we may need to find other ways to spend our vacations. The extra melt downs and wear and tear running around the park to get return times to wait even more in wheel chair lines made the day not worth the money spent. There was little Disney magic, mainly hard work and dread and avoidance of the next melt down. The DAS as it exists now may work for some but not for my cognitively and physically impaired 13 year old.

 

[disney david]

I disagree that my system would lead to more abuse, mostly because the record proves otherwise at other parks that use what I suggest.

That being said, I have also suggested in recent posts other ways that might help solve the issues.

Again, the main issues that i have are:
Guests who need assistance must travel further than the ones who don't. (Particularly at Disneyland, but also at WDW to some extent, depending on the needs)

Guests who need assistance are always waiting longer than those that don't.

Not being able to get return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

Another possible solution would be for every attraction to have an ipad and have your first return time issued at GR, then have the next time assigned at the ride you just got off of. They could even assign it when getting in line, but account for about how long you would wait there and the length of that ride in the return time. So, this could solve two of the issues, but this still doesn't solve return times close to closing.

I am not saying my way is the only way, but I am saying my way solves these issues and I still maintain without an increase in abuse, as the parks who changed from return time passes to what I suggested have reported that they saw a decrease in abuse once they started doing what I suggested in the first post.

I am sorry not trying to aurgue but their really no system that isn't abuse proof even he das could be if someone who has nothing better to do.

I do think your system could be abuse more do to the fact people will see that you wait less and get on the ride quicker.

Now you have to wait which is a deterrent to abuse yes they should and will most likely fix the issue of having to walk a little more. But jest using fast pass has to do the same thing but they only have the hour time window to use it.

Under the current das and using fast pass plus/fast pass in dl you will be on average getting on more rides then able bodied people. Just using their three fast pass reservations and using stand by so you have to give and take. Yes you may have to walk a little longer but you have the chance to get on more rides. Where guest using stand by yes don't have to go back twice but might not be able to get on as many rides or be able to do as much. Also with fast pass plus you can't park hop you have to choose the park you want and pick your three with the das you can park hop.

Is das perfect no can their be changes made to it yes will their be yes will they change he whole system no not now.

 

[Southerndisney]

lmb80129, I was very sorry that your day at Disney was just not worth the money. I have not been to Disney yet since the change, but we felt that same way after visiting another park that had a very similar system to the new DAS. Hopefully Disney will make changes to the DAS that will allow you to enjoy going to Disney again. I would contact Disney and let them know the problems that you encountered.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

We used the new DAS system on Oct 19th and believe the only way it will work for us is if Disney goes to Universal's system and lets DAS holders use fast pass lines or alternate entrances for rides with a 30 minute or less wait. I would also like to see Disney give DAS holders some leeway on return times for normal fast pass returns . . .

1) Handicap folks do need access assistance, morally and legally.
2) But, why do they get to ride more often than non-handicapped?
3) But, why should they get Fast Pass liberties that others cannot.
4) Non-handicap and handicap pay the same for admission.
5) Other than ease of access, shouldn't everyone get equal treatment for rides and Fast Passes?
6) This is why the new (DAS) system should work so well.
7) People are now put on equal footing, just as they should be.

NOTE: Some say they need help because a party member can't wait in
the lines. With the new system, they can easily wait elsewhere until it
is time for get into the FP line for entry into the ride/attraction.

 

[Nixie]

I am sorry, but I just don't agree with the " it causes more travel because you have to go up to the ride, get your time, and come back to ride". That is the exact same thing that happens when you get a fastpass. I have to go up to the fastpass machine which is usually located right next to the ride, get my ticket, and come back later when my time is up.

 

[mistysue]

I disagree that my system would lead to more abuse, mostly because the record proves otherwise at other parks that use what I suggest.

That being said, I have also suggested in recent posts other ways that might help solve the issues.

Again, the main issues that i have are:
Guests who need assistance must travel further than the ones who don't. (Particularly at Disneyland, but also at WDW to some extent, depending on the needs)

Guests who need assistance are always waiting longer than those that don't.

Not being able to get return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

Another possible solution would be for every attraction to have an ipad and have your first return time issued at GR, then have the next time assigned at the ride you just got off of. They could even assign it when getting in line, but account for about how long you would wait there and the length of that ride in the return time. So, this could solve two of the issues, but this still doesn't solve return times close to closing.

I am not saying my way is the only way, but I am saying my way solves these issues and I still maintain without an increase in abuse, as the parks who changed from return time passes to what I suggested have reported that they saw a decrease in abuse once they started doing what I suggested in the first post.

Thats great if places find it cuts down on abuse/overuse. I know I was dreading the day my daughter noticed the GAC as she would not understand why this was an option and she did not have it. I had to stop a woman near us in the fp+ line on our last trip bragging about it before my daughter figured out what she was saying. (Only person on many trips I've ever heard say anything out loud) I would have had the 10 year old laying on the ground screaming until we dragged her away. We do a lot of redirecting to get her to see only the magic we need her to see.

If it doesnt up abuse I dont care too much what they have to do, I just dont want the use rate to force us to need it. Luckily we all can walk long distances so we end up running across the park to get to a 5 minute wait because lines just don't go well.

If you havent already you should be suggesting initiating a policy as suggested at least for those with boarding assistance or alternate vehicles needed.

 

[infopurposesonly]

Thats great if places find it cuts down on abuse/overuse. I know I was dreading the day my daughter noticed the GAC as she would not understand why this was an option and she did not have it. I had to stop a woman near us in the fp+ line on our last trip bragging about it before my daughter figured out what she was saying. (Only person on many trips I've ever heard say anything out loud) I would have had the 10 year old laying on the ground screaming until we dragged her away. We do a lot of redirecting to get her to see only the magic we need her to see.

If it doesnt up abuse I dont care too much what they have to do, I just dont want the use rate to force us to need it. Luckily we all can walk long distances so we end up running across the park to get to a 5 minute wait because lines just don't go well.

If you havent already you should be suggesting initiating a policy as suggested at least for those with boarding assistance or alternate vehicles needed.

Really?!? People with disabilities should not be accommodated because your ten-year-old might be jealous of disabled people? So instead of adjusting your parenting to work on your child's attitude, we should just make sure these accommodations are not allowed. OK, I get it now.

 

[aaarcher86]

Really?!? People with disabilities should not be accommodated because your ten-year-old might be jealous of disabled people? So instead of adjusting your parenting to work on your child's attitude, we should just make sure these accommodations are not allowed. OK, I get it now.

I assumed she has a child with some form of disability but doesn't use the DAS for herself.

 

[mistysue]

Really?!? People with disabilities should not be accommodated because your ten-year-old might be jealous of disabled people? So instead of adjusting your parenting to work on your child's attitude, we should just make sure these accommodations are not allowed. OK, I get it now.

That is not what I said. Please read before jumping at people. This has nothing to do with adjusting an attitude, thanks for the insult though. Exactly what we need is to just be rude to everybody.

I dont want a system that provides a huge enough advantage that it invites abuse, forcing people who boarder on needing it to badly need it.

 

[infopurposesonly]

I assumed she has a child with some form of disability but doesn't use the DAS for herself.

If so, that is her own choice. It should not mean someone else should not be accommodated. The only solution to her child's issue is for nobody to have a DAS becasue it will appear to her child just as a GAC would. The people with a DAS will still be in the alternate entrance line. They won't be wearing big signs that say "I already waited 120 minutes outside the line." If she can't or won't explain to her child that some people need additional accommodations, that's her issue.

 

[cmwade77]

Just a reminder let's all play nice.

 

[mistysue]

If so, that is her own choice. It should not mean someone else should not be accommodated. The only solution to her child's issue is for nobody to have a DAS becasue it will appear to her child just as a GAC would. The people with a DAS will still be in the alternate entrance line. They won't be wearing big signs that say "I already waited 120 minutes outside the line." If she can't or won't explain to her child that some people need additional accommodations, that's her issue.

I NEVER said people should not be accomodated. No, I don't want there to be no system.

 

[cmwade77]

1) Handicap folks do need access assistance, morally and legally.
2) But, why do they get to ride more often than non-handicapped?
3) But, why should they get Fast Pass liberties that others cannot.
4) Non-handicap and handicap pay the same for admission.
5) Other than ease of access, shouldn't everyone get equal treatment for rides and Fast Passes?
6) This is why the new (DAS) system should work so well.
7) People are now put on equal footing, just as they should be.

NOTE: Some say they need help because a party member can't wait in
the lines. With the new system, they can easily wait elsewhere until it
is time for get into the FP line for entry into the ride/attraction.

Here are my responses to the above:

1. You are completely correct, they do need assistance.
2. They should not get to ride more than other guests, but they also should not get to ride less than other guests. Equality means that both should be able to do the EXACT same number of attractions in the EXACT same amount of wait time.
3. They should have the ability to come back after a FP time, if they missed it due to the issues that they need assistance for. The reasoning is simple: Someone without these issues can always return within the window or wait in the standby line. Those with these issues cannot always do so. For example, I may get a FP for Space Mountain, but if my issue hits during my return window, I may miss it. This is why the GAC system and it's flexibility worked well. So, now something needs to be done to allow some flexibility. As I said before, I would add in checks and balances to make sure that the flexibility is not being abused, but it should be there.
4. This is exactly WHY they should be able to do the EXACT same number of attractions in the EXACT same amount of time.
5. Yes, everyone should be treated the same, but the problem is that many people don't see it that way. By the same, I mean the same amount of waiting for both those that need assistance and those that don't. But that also means the same amount of walking, the same ability to enter a que right before park closing, etc.
6. I disagree, the new DAS has flaws that anyone could have seen coming, such as waiting longer than other guests, walking more, etc.
7. See comment on #6 for how they are not on equal footing.

 

[going/again]

Remember, ADA requires opportunity for equal access, and that is all.

Wouldn't that mean on every ride there should be an equal number of wheelchair accessible vehicles as none accessible. How many rides have more than 1?

 

[going/again]

Adding a few more kiosks would be nice, but I think it's hard to gauge how much the average guest walks around the park as well. I've hoofed it across the parks on multiple occasions.

Ever tried to get around on four wheels, as the parks get more and more crowded its getting worse.

 

[cmwade77]

I am sorry, but I just don't agree with the " it causes more travel because you have to go up to the ride, get your time, and come back to ride". That is the exact same thing that happens when you get a fastpass. I have to go up to the fastpass machine which is usually located right next to the ride, get my ticket, and come back later when my time is up.

But the issue is that you don't get a FP for EVERY attraction, which is essentially what this system requires a person to do. This is why it DOES cause extra traveling, again, especially at Disneyland, where you MUST go to a kiosk to get a return time.

There is a great example on the official DLR thread of someone who was in ToonTown and wanted to get a return time for Gadget's Go Coaster. This would mean going down a non-ADA compliant hill to a kiosk in Fantasyland, getting the return time, then going back up the hill to go on the ride. No, I don't know all of the details as to why they didn't get a return time before going into ToonTown, my guess is that they already had one for Roger Rabbit's Cartoon spin. You might say that they could have gotten a FP for that, but that may or may not be true, as some days FP is available for it and some days it isn't. So, when it isn't available, you would need a return time for Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin and Gadget's Go Coaster. Both are in the same land and the nearest kiosk is a good distance away. How does this NOT cause more traveling than someone who is physically able to get in both standby queues?

 

[cmwade77]

Ever tried to get around on four wheels, as the parks get more and more crowded its getting worse.

I haven't, but I have been with those that have and it's not fun.

Also, I don't think it's about how much the average guest "hooves it". I think it is about the opportunity that they have to not do the extra traveling.

Guests who do not need assistance ALWAYS have the choice of the standby line, which means they ALWAYS have the choice to not go to the attraction, leave and come back.

Guests who do need assistance don't get that choice at most attractions, meaning, they always have to go to the attraction (or kiosk), then leave and come back. Even if leaving means going to the nearest bench, that is still leaving the attraction. And that doesn't even factor in the kiosks, such as in the example I posted above.

 

[going/again]

4) Non-handicap and handicap pay the same for admission.

True they do and how many cars, boats, whatever have equal numbers of disabled cars, boats, whatever to none disabled, you could ride 2 rides while someone who needs accessible vehicle is still waiting in line where's that fair or equal.

Also think about the number of rides that you can't go on if you can't transfer. if you want fairness they should be charge less. this is not a choice like oh I don't like that ride so I won't go on it, your not allowed.

 

[going/again]

Really?!? People with disabilities should not be accommodated because your ten-year-old might be jealous of disabled people? So instead of adjusting your parenting to work on your child's attitude, we should just make sure these accommodations are not allowed. OK, I get it now.

You might want to re read her post.

 

[lmb80129]

1) Handicap folks do need access assistance, morally and legally.
2) But, why do they get to ride more often than non-handicapped?
3) But, why should they get Fast Pass liberties that others cannot.
4) Non-handicap and handicap pay the same for admission.
5) Other than ease of access, shouldn't everyone get equal treatment for rides and Fast Passes?
6) This is why the new (DAS) system should work so well.
7) People are now put on equal footing, just as they should be.

NOTE: Some say they need help because a party member can't wait in
the lines. With the new system, they can easily wait elsewhere until it
is time for get into the FP line for entry into the ride/attraction.

I hesitated for a long time to post anything about our experience to these threads because of posts like this. I was simply stating what it would take to make it worthwhile for us to take our disabled teenage son to Disney. Disney and a lot of folks agree with your assessment. I would try to point out that until you try waiting elsewhere with a child with significant cognitive and physical disabilities, you may not think it is all that easy. However, having read lots of threads comparing disabled children to toddlers and other kids that have trouble waiting, there are a lot of people that agree with you. But the point is moot as DAS is here. Whether the DAS is fair and equal and does what Disney and general public expect it to do, time will tell. Everyone that enters Disney gets to judge if it is a good value and experience and if they will come back. We have decided that the DAS did not work for my family in its current form and other vacations may work better for us.