Idea to improve DAS

[cmwade77]

Yes, I can see where it isn't equal. Of course, it also isn't equal that you can ride an attraction while waiting for two other attractions, whereas non-DAS holders can't.

There is no way to make it exactly equal, but it can't, or at least shouldn't, go back to the way the GAC was.

I still think the best way is what I proposed earlier, i.e., allow DAS holders to get wait times for many rides at the beginning of the day, with the wait time for each one added to the end of the previous one.

While I would absolutely love the one stop idea, there are a few issues presented with this:
What would they base the wait times off of? If they base it off the current wait time, I will simply show up at rope drop and have tons of attractions with no waits. If they base it off the historically average wait times throughout the day, what happens when attendance doesn't go with the historical average and is either a lot slower or a lot busier than expected? How do you ensure that people wait equal times (not shorter or longer) as everyone else?

Many of us are unable to plan more than one to two rides ahead, due to our needs. Planning the entire day in the morning would definitely not work for probably about 50% of the people who need assistance.

I am not saying the idea is not good, it just presents it's own set of challenges.

The system I proposed would not go back to the GAC system either, everyone still waits their fair turn. The wait is simply broken up, some of it is before riding while some of it is after riding a particular attraction.

As I have said, another system might be allowing you to get the return time for the next attraction at the one you are getting on. So, say you go on Jungle Cruise and next want to ride Indiana Jones, when getting in line, you would tell them so and they would write the return time for the next attraction. The only thing that would need to be worked out is how to handle the first attraction of the day. Perhaps you could go to any attraction that deals with return times to get that.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes, I agree with this obsession about it always being fair. I don't ask for fair, I ask for EQUAL, which to me means equal waits, etc.

Your system doesn't provide equal waits. It can very easily be gamed to provide shorter wait times overall.

But there are many people who are not finding the current DAS just fine,
That's the point!

It seems that the reason it doesn't work is because people are used to doing it the GAC way, which was obviously much easier. Had Disney started out with this system instead of the GAC, I highly doubt that anyone would have complained about it. But people seem to want the DAS to work just like the GAC, and that system just wasn't sustainable.

There has to be a balance that is as fair as possible to all guests, DAS holder and non-DAS holders alike.

 

[OurBigTrip]

My eyes have been opened with all the DAS threads. There are some people who have been very ugly about those with diabilities getting any consideration at all. Some have even posted that those with kids who can't deal with wait times should stay home.

Speaking only for myself, I'm 10000% in favor of accommodations. However, I'm not in favor of preferential access/treatment, which is what the GAC provided. There has to be a balance that provides, as much as possible, fair treatment for ALL guests, not just DAS holders or non-DAS holders.

The DAS, while not perfect, does bring the GAC-induced access inequalities somewhat back into balance.

 

[Robbi]

Your system doesn't provide equal waits. It can very easily be gamed to provide shorter wait times overall.




It seems that the reason it doesn't work is because people are used to doing it the GAC way, which was obviously much easier. Had Disney started out with this system instead of the GAC, I highly doubt that anyone would have complained about it. But people seem to want the DAS to work just like the GAC, and that system just wasn't sustainable.

There has to be a balance that is as fair as possible to all guests, DAS holder and non-DAS holders alike.

I saw a picture the other day that dealt with Disney and DAS.

Two people are allowed to watch a game behind a fence. The first sees the game fine. The second however, is not tall enough to see over the fence. Both have equal access to watch the game. Their experience though is not equal.

In the second set of pictures, the child not tall enough to see over the fence was given a crate on which to stand so watching the game was now possible for him.

That is the point that many here have tried to make. The GAC or revised DSA allow(ed) children and adults the opportunity to come as close as possible to having an equal experience.

 

[aaarcher86]

I wonder if it would be beneficial to put Disneyland in the title since the 2 are wildly different ball games.

But there are many people who are not finding the current DAS just fine, That's the point!

And there are many that are and didn't like the old system... You'll have that with anything.

The inequality biggest issue I see is the WC accessible lines and how they are handled, along with the lack of kiosks.

 

[WDWJonasGirl]

Eliminate return times
Instead what would happen is you would present your DAS to the first CM you see at each attraction. They would write the date, atttraction name, arrival time, current wait time and the next valid time. The next valid time would be the current time plus the current wait time. You would then proceed to go on that ride. After that ride, you would need to wait for the next valid time to go on another ride with the pass.

Exactly!! I'm an 18 year old with autism and we already do this for Radiator Springs Racers.

 

[mrsksomeday]

I hesitated for a long time to post anything about our experience to these threads because of posts like this. I was simply stating what it would take to make it worthwhile for us to take our disabled teenage son to Disney. Disney and a lot of folks agree with your assessment. I would try to point out that until you try waiting elsewhere with a child with significant cognitive and physical disabilities, you may not think it is all that easy. However, having read lots of threads comparing disabled children to toddlers and other kids that have trouble waiting, there are a lot of people that agree with you. But the point is moot as DAS is here. Whether the DAS is fair and equal and does what Disney and general public expect it to do, time will tell. Everyone that enters Disney gets to judge if it is a good value and experience and if they will come back. We have decided that the DAS did not work for my family in its current form and other vacations may work better for us.

Please, Please write to Disney and explain your experiences. They need this feedback, they need to know how it affected your family. The only way they are going to change the system, rework things, is to hear from guests that have actually tried the DAS.

I saw a picture the other day that dealt with Disney and DAS.

Two people are allowed to watch a game behind a fence. The first sees the game fine. The second however, is not tall enough to see over the fence. Both have equal access to watch the game. Their experience though is not equal.

In the second set of pictures, the child not tall enough to see over the fence was given a crate on which to stand so watching the game was now possible for him.

That is the point that many here have tried to make. The GAC or revised DSA allow(ed) children and adults the opportunity to come as close as possible to having an equal experience.

 

[tinkerpea]

And I have to admit, I cracked up at the "non-ADA compliant hill" comment. I can only assume that you're joking, and that you don't really expect Disney to flatten out the hill.

Of course they don't expect disney to come along and now change the hill!!
Having said that though disney could make it easier on people that have to wheel themselves about the park and not expect them to come back and fourth to keep getting return times!

There are rides where you have to go quite far off track to get to the ride, there is nothing else around that ride, so you have to leave the ride area to be able to do something else while waiting " the whole point to the DAS fair or not to non DAS users" then when time is close to up you have to get yourself all the way back to the ride!

At least with the way some other parks work, you would only go to the ride when actually needing to ride, perfect for those with children/ relatives with cognitive conditions, then we wait at the end the length of the standard Q before being able to ride again!

 

[Mom2six]

I love this picture. It is perfect and exactly what so many people do not understand.

 

[KJohnsonDisneyFan]

OP I'm not sure how this is fair to all.
You and I arrive at Space Mountain at 12noon with a 60 min standby. You get right on, I get in line. Your next available time to ride is, what? 1pm by your example? So at 1 pm you are getting on Pooh, which has a 60 min wait, I am getting on Space Mountain. You had a leisurely walk to Pooh and an ice cream cone, I stood in line. At 115, you exit Pooh, I exit Space Mountain. You head to lunch, I head to Pooh for another 60 min wait, arriving at Pooh at 125, I will ride at 225. By 240, you will be off your third attraction as your new wait time would have blocked you out until 215. Follow what I am trying to say?
DAS was meant to even the wait times, not just be a GAC of a different name.

I'm getting really tired of hearing the words" fair to all". What's not fair is my daughter with multiple disabilities being treated like a second class citizen everywhere we go, in school, in our neighborhood and in public and having to fight daily battles on her behalf everyday from now on. Hearing her tell me she wants to get married and have babies and having to choke back the tears because I know that's probably not going to ever happen for her and now having the one annual escape we had from those daily battles being taken away from us by Disney because of people like you who only care about yourself. The new system doesn't work for the truly disabled but only someone with a disability or who loves someone with a disability would get that. I can't get over the lack of compassion I keep seeing since this has happened. If you're not disabled or love someone who is, why are you here commenting anyway? Don't you have anything better to do? It was the selfish able bodied people that ruined and abused this system. Not the disabled.

 

[SteveMouse]

I still see real inequality for folks requiring accessible vehicles. It seems like additional time credit should be issued, based perhaps on the number/ride time of riders needing the vehicle currently in the queue, as well as guidance at the ride entrance about how long the wait for an accessible ride truly is- not just the posted time for the FastPass or standby line, but maybe a third wheelchair love so that the return time would be standby line minus wheelchair wait time. Or something.

 

[mistysue]

It was the selfish able bodied people that ruined and abused this system. Not the disabled.

It is the sheer volume of disabled people that ruin the system. Disney has become a magnet for disabled travelers. Somebody posted an article that suggested that I think it was near 1% of people in the park were GAC eligible... Most of those people are not alone. It is not sustainable to have a full percent, let alone 2 or 3 percent of the people accessing anything they want on demand. That is true whether or not you deem them disabled enough to count.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I love this picture. It is perfect and exactly what so many people do not understand.

Problem is,this isn't what the GAC did. A more accurate representation would be the smallest child being lifted over the fence, and given first row baseline seats.

Expecting to be provided the opportunity to wait outside of the lines in a place that is more comfortable and less stressful is entirely reasonable.

Expecting to not have to wait the same amount of time as other guests is not reasonable, IMO.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Of course they don't expect disney to come along and now change the hill!!
Having said that though disney could make it easier on people that have to wheel themselves about the park and not expect them to come back and fourth to keep getting return times!

There are rides where you have to go quite far off track to get to the ride, there is nothing else around that ride, so you have to leave the ride area to be able to do something else while waiting " the whole point to the DAS fair or not to non DAS users" then when time is close to up you have to get yourself all the way back to the ride!

At least with the way some other parks work, you would only go to the ride when actually needing to ride, perfect for those with children/ relatives with cognitive conditions, then we wait at the end the length of the standard Q before being able to ride again!

For a place like Disney, equipping all attraction CMs with iPads would take nothing at all...perhaps the answer is to provide the iPads, and then allow guests with a DAS to get a return time FOR any ride AT any ride.

Thinking WDW...if walking by Buzz and you want a return time for BTMRR, the CM at Buzz could give it to you.

 

[mistysue]

Duplicate, sorry

 

[DisneyNutMary]

I'm getting really tired of hearing the words" fair to all". What's not fair is my daughter with multiple disabilities being treated like a second class citizen everywhere we go, in school, in our neighborhood and in public and having to fight daily battles on her behalf everyday from now on. Hearing her tell me she wants to get married and have babies and having to choke back the tears because I know that's probably not going to ever happen for her and now having the one annual escape we had from those daily battles being taken away from us by Disney because of people like you who only care about yourself. The new system doesn't work for the truly disabled but only someone with a disability or who loves someone with a disability would get that. I can't get over the lack of compassion I keep seeing since this has happened. If you're not disabled or love someone who is, why are you here commenting anyway? Don't you have anything better to do? It was the selfish able bodied people that ruined and abused this system. Not the disabled.

As you quoted my post, I must address this.
Your "people like you comment" is rude and ignorant. I was just pointing out something from an opposite point of view. Opposite is not necessarily wrong.
As to your accusations. We'll here goes, I grew up with a brother with severe cerebral palsy, multiple handicaps, and never achieved a mental age above five, although he is now 48. The world was a different place when I was a kid- people stared at him and commented loudly and rudely. We were often turned away from restaurants because of his complicated wheelchair. Ramps were not everywhere as they are now. We made trips to local amusement parks, as he could not fly....in fact, his body is so palsied, he doesn't really sit in his chair, he's propped there. Rides were nearly impossible for him, and we often waited hours for mom to get him ready, and set to head to the park. He would be able to enjoy one or two experiences, then out we go. Because if he was in his chair too long it became painful. I was five when I knew what words like phenobarbital and Valium meant.
My mom lobbied to get schools to provide physical therapy for him, and even then- after suing the board of education, he still had to be bussed over an hour to school. This in a big city like New York City. He lives in a group home now, because my moms body have out from caring for home for so many years. Yes, loving and taking care of her son, with only the help of her other three kids, killed my mother.

Yeah, I only care about myself, I know nothing about disabilities. You proved the theory about assuming. Thanks.
Maybe get to know someone's full story before you make ignorant comments.
Life was SO FAIR to my brother, so fair that he never has and never will see WDW.

 

[OurBigTrip]

It is the sheer volume of disabled people that ruin the system. Disney has become a magnet for disabled travelers. Somebody posted an article that suggested that I think it was near 1% of people in the park were GAC eligible... Most of those people are not alone. It is not sustainable to have a full percent, let alone 2 or 3 percent of the people accessing anything they want on demand. That is true whether or not you deem them disabled enough to count.

Exactly.

And the reason that the non-disabled are interested in this is because it DOES affect us.

 

[DisneyNutMary]

Just want to add, Mods, I apologize that my prior post went off topic. I just needed to get that out. One can know both sides of an issues first hand and effectively choose to speak on one side of it. I never expected an attack due to my stand. The OP did not seem offended and debated every opposing point very well.
Delete if you must, but please understand where I am coming from.

 

[Vidia2]

As you quoted my post, I must address this.
Your "people like you comment" is rude and ignorant. I was just pointing out something from an opposite point of view. Opposite is not necessarily wrong.
As to your accusations. We'll here goes, I grew up with a brother with severe cerebral palsy, multiple handicaps, and never achieved a mental age above five, although he is now 48. The world was a different place when I was a kid- people stared at him and commented loudly and rudely. We were often turned away from restaurants because of his complicated wheelchair. Ramps were not everywhere as they are now. We made trips to local amusement parks, as he could not fly....in fact, his body is so palsied, he doesn't really sit in his chair, he's propped there. Rides were nearly impossible for him, and we often waited hours for mom to get him ready, and set to head to the park. He would be able to enjoy one or two experiences, then out we go. Because if he was in his chair too long it became painful. I was five when I knew what words like phenobarbital and Valium meant.
My mom lobbied to get schools to provide physical therapy for him, and even then- after suing the board of education, he still had to be bussed over an hour to school. This in a big city like New York City. He lives in a group home now, because my moms body have out from caring for home for so many years. Yes, loving and taking care of her son, with only the help of her other three kids, killed my mother.

Yeah, I only care about myself, I know nothing about disabilities. You proved the theory about assuming. Thanks.
Maybe get to know someone's full story before you make ignorant comments.
Life was SO FAIR to my brother, so fair that he never has and never will see WDW.

Have you taken your brother to Disney World? Just wondering what your actual experience with the GAC or the DAS is.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I still see real inequality for folks requiring accessible vehicles. It seems like additional time credit should be issued, based perhaps on the number/ride time of riders needing the vehicle currently in the queue, as well as guidance at the ride entrance about how long the wait for an accessible ride truly is- not just the posted time for the FastPass or standby line, but maybe a third wheelchair love so that the return time would be standby line minus wheelchair wait time. Or something.

I agree, on rides where there are few WC accessible vehicles, something needs to be done to make it more equitable for those in wheelchairs/ECV.