Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[Stacy's a freak]

Yes, uncomfortable conversation but a good one! I agree with both sides but feel Kathy and Teresa's pain. This is how I see it, way back when, I was able to go to WDW with my parents and sisters. We went when I was 4, 8, 12 and not again until I was able to take myself at the age of 19. I was hooked immediately as a kid and have loved it ever since. Then comes the 2000s (ish) when the internet became big and Disney started a mass marketing commercial campaign. For those who thought it was too expensive (which it was even then), the commercials spouted that "even your average family can afford this trip! Look for only X a night per person, you can stay at a value and enjoy all the parks have to offer." So MANY went with their little ones and those little ones became hooked. It was like a taste of crack (so to speak) on a budget. Then the price started going up and up. [if this is sounding like a drug dealer's marketing plan, you're understanding my point] Now we are all hooked and the demand is wheedling a lot of us out of the perks we had come to enjoy for our piddly stake in our family vacation. For those of us on budget, we used to be able to plan well to make the most of our trip by staking out our spot in advance or by getting there at rope drop to avoid some lines. Now we are just waiting in the wings for the leftovers.

I do not begrudge those who have the means to pay extra for these perks. But this is just another example of the thinning of the middle class. Forgive the George Bailey-ism (or revel in it, if you like), but we do the "working and paying and living and dying" in this world. So it is too much to ask to "work and pay and live and die" with a few days of fun in a theme park while having a level playing field?

 

[The Novice]

Please Disney raise the price to enter the parks. Double would be a good starting point. The parks parks are way to crowded!

 

[jcb]

This is becoming one of my favorite threads. I was initially taken back by the idea that Disney was nickel and diming its guests. Now that Kevin has checked the dates for the late hours and these are not EMH or times parks are ordinarily open late, I am less concerned. I suppose it is still possible that Disney might be testing the waters and has ulterior ultimate motives for charging additional fees for all EMH hours.

In a sense, I wonder if this "nickel and diming" is helping to keep admission prices lower and thus tend to make Disney affordable for average income families (using the nuclear term). I mean, statistically, few families are going to be in the parks between 11 pm and 2 am (obviously there will be exceptions). Perhaps more families would take advantage of early morning entry (I could rarely get mine to anything at by 7:45 even when we weren't on vacation). I also wonder comparatively how many people were using fast passes for parades and shows. Attractions and meet/greets, perhaps. Now, by itself, the specific events recently announced are not going to make much of a bottom line impact but if they catch on . . . that could make increases in entry fees less necessary.

There have always been corn people.

 

[beastlyprince]

I disagree with this. Due to my work schedule, I only visit the parks during peak season. By utilizing EMH and FP+, it is possible to get everything done within a day although I'm not sure why anyone would want to. Spreading it out is much more enjoyable for me.

My last trip to WDW was in 2002. On that trip WDW cut hours in all of the parks, discontinued the extra magic hours (whatever they were called in 2002), cut show performances, cut fireworks, and cut parades due to the downturn in travel/recession caused by 9/11. I was able to get most things done (not all, either due to a disinterest in the attraction/ride or running out of time (really short hours at Animal Kingdom)). There was no FP+, just
the old FP system. In response to "I'm not sure why anyone would want to", that sounds 1%-ish. Not everyone has the money or time to visit WDW
multiple times a year or every year. People who can't visit often try to get everything done during their trip. People who live within driving distance to WDW have the luxury to "look at all the details" and tour the parks at a leisurely pace.

 

[beastlyprince]

I just get a bad feeling with all the add on charges. I actually won't stand around and watch the parades and fireworks. That is the best time to do the rides. Does this mean all of the people that can't find a spot will be on the rides? I have great memories of going on rides more then once in a row with fireworks going off. That experience was Thunder Mt. People need to watch those parades so I can have quicker lines. lol

On my last WDW trip I was able to ride Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Haunted Mansion, and Space Mountain while the parade and fireworks were going on. Trying to get from one side of the park to the other was a bit nightmarish.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I'd just like to state for the record (a little late in doing so- holidays, kid with stomach bug, and college basketball all kind of set me back a bit) that I'm a lot less freaked out now that more details have come out on things. Yes, I got a little crazy, but it's times like this when I like being wrong. Now let's hope they don't give me reason to go back on this statement.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

My last trip to WDW was in 2002. On that trip WDW cut hours in all of the parks, discontinued the extra magic hours (whatever they were called in 2002), cut show performances, cut fireworks, and cut parades due to the downturn in travel/recession caused by 9/11. I was able to get most things done (not all, either due to a disinterest in the attraction/ride or running out of time (really short hours at Animal Kingdom)). There was no FP+, just
the old FP system. In response to "I'm not sure why anyone would want to", that sounds 1%-ish. Not everyone has the money or time to visit WDW
multiple times a year or every year. People who can't visit often try to get everything done during their trip. People who live within driving distance to WDW have the luxury to "look at all the details" and tour the parks at a leisurely pace.

I fully understand that not everyone may visit regularly. However, I don't think most spend only one day in the MK regardless of it being their first trip, only trip, every other year trip, etc. It's a big park and going at that pace isn't the ideal for the vast majority. Can it be done? Yes. Still though, I stand by my statement that it isn't the ultimate way to tour especially in the hot Florida sun.

For the record, I'm far from the 1% and don't live within driving distance to WDW.

 

[beastlyprince]

I fully understand that not everyone may visit regularly. However, I don't think most spend only one day in the MK regardless of it being their first trip, only trip, every other year trip, etc. It's a big park and going at that pace isn't the ideal for the vast majority. Can it be done? Yes. Still though, I stand by my statement that it isn't the ultimate way to tour especially in the hot Florida sun.

For the record, I'm far from the 1% and don't live within driving distance to WDW.

In a perfect world I'd want to spend 2 days at MK (make time to explore Main St. U.S.A., which I always zip right through), 2 days at EPCOT (1 day in Future World + spend some time in Innoventions, which I always zip through; 1 day in World Showcase + spend more time looking at the shops and details), 1 day at Hollywood Studios, 1 day at Animal Kingdom, 1 day at Disney Springs, then take time for Universal, SeaWorld, and Busch Gardens.
I would also love to visit all of the WDW resorts to walk around and try some of the restaurants. Also, I'd like to use the boating transportation (Friendships between EPCOT and Hollywood Studios; Port Orleans Riverside to Disney Springs; Bay Lake Resorts and Seven Seas Lagoon Resorts).

 

[disneysteve]

I don't think most spend only one day in the MK regardless of it being their first trip, only trip, every other year trip, etc.

I wonder about that. I'm sure 4-day passes are pretty popular. Outside of our fanatic community, most people know little more than that there are 4 parks, so they probably figure one day per park (although on a non-Disney website, I recently saw someone answer a question about WDW by saying there are 5 parks: MK, Epcot, DHS, AK, and Universal - UGH!).

I totally agree that MK deserves more than one day, but if you're coming for a 5 or 6 day visit, you don't really have time for that. Even on a week-long visit, the first and last days are travel days so really only 6 days on the ground. Four parks and a water park covers 5 days and maybe one day for hanging at the resort, using the pool, going to Disney Springs, etc.

I'd think the vast majority of guests don't do more than one day in each park.

 

[KingLlama]

(although on a non-Disney website, I recently saw someone answer a question about WDW by saying there are 5 parks: MK, Epcot, DHS, AK, and Universal - UGH!).

This person should be shot, frankly.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I wonder about that. I'm sure 4-day passes are pretty popular. Outside of our fanatic community, most people know little more than that there are 4 parks, so they probably figure one day per park (although on a non-Disney website, I recently saw someone answer a question about WDW by saying there are 5 parks: MK, Epcot, DHS, AK, and Universal - UGH!).

I totally agree that MK deserves more than one day, but if you're coming for a 5 or 6 day visit, you don't really have time for that. Even on a week-long visit, the first and last days are travel days so really only 6 days on the ground. Four parks and a water park covers 5 days and maybe one day for hanging at the resort, using the pool, going to Disney Springs, etc.

I'd think the vast majority of guests don't do more than one day in each park.

If you ever want a good laugh, search for threads with titles like "Craziest thing overheard while at Walt Disney World" ... you hear of people that only find out there is more than one theme park once they get there and others asking which monorail goes to Harry Potter Land and stuff like that

Separate from that, I might disagree with your point a bit as I know families with young kids that definitely do MK more than one day even if it means not getting to one of the other parks even once

 

[smiths02]

SIDE NOTE: I just accidentally printed an entire page of this thread to the office printer out in the common area. I didn't realize I had done it until someone yelled out "WHICH ONE OF YOU IS KING LLAMA AND DO PEOPLE REALLY ARGUE ABOUT DISNEY WORLD ON THE INTERNET?!"

That was a dose of reality.

Okay, as you were.....

My DH who knows my obsession with the DIS was asking me how tall the kids have to be for 7DMT in a few months. My twin daughter will likely make it, but my twin son is iffy. So DH googles something about shoes that add the most height. Well, he found a thread on the DIS.
Despite me at least checking the DIS daily and listening to podcasts, he could not believe how irate people were. Thank goodness he didn't come on and post that question.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

Does World of Color still have the FastPass area? They had it when I was there in 2013.

It does. You have to stand, but you can get much closer viewing. They started offering "World of Color" dining packages a while back; what they don't tell you is that, unlike "Fantasmic!" at WDW, where you sit during the show depends on how much you spend on dinner. Buying a package at Ariel's Grotto or Wine Country Trattoria, for example, is not nearly so nice as buying a package at Carthay Circle.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

In fact, one of the biggest complaints on these boards over the past few years is that the crowd levels are high all year round. This sounds almost like a way of saying you want no crowds, we will keep the parks open after closing, you'll just have to pay extra. Disney isn't going to find ways to make the parks less crowded for guests during regular hours, so perhaps this is a way to please those fans who want the lower crowd numbers and are willing to pay more for it.

You're right, of course. I do think, in California anyway, some of the massive crowding could be lessened by removing the monthly payment option for APs; even with the recent price hike, what's another couple of bucks a month to have the freedom of stopping by on a whim? There, then, in my opinion, Disney has brought down the hordes by their own fault.

I would bet that somewhere on a survey there was a question that said "Would you be willing to pay extra to experience the park with little to no crowds". And I am sure that when guests were leaving the MK on a hot May night after experiencing the new "high" crowd levels, alot of them might have been clicking "Yes"

Again, you're not wrong. I may even have taken this survey at Disneyland. We're heading down for my birthday next month, and while I'm excited, I'm also dreading what's sure to be epic crowding, despite all the construction and perhaps as much as 20% of DLR being closed down. At least at WDW, the construction seems to be happening in a way that won't create chokepoints; New Orleans Square was already awful, and it's about to get a lot, lot worse.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

The other idea I thought of was to go the reverse and make tickets much more expensive, but then keep the annual pass where it is or even lower it ... basically make it so that if you are going for a week it is the same price to get an AP. Would motivate people to come back for a 2nd trip in the same year and feel like they don't need to get everything done in the one trip if they know they are coming twice

Someway to spread the crowds out (especially connected to Magic Kingdom) that actually offered a lower price (but for "limited times/experience") would be interesting

Not sure how this would play out at the Magic Kingdom, but in California, it's the monthly payment plans for APs, I feel, that are a major contributor to the out-of-control crowding. You used to be able to visit in February, and it was not crowded at all (even if the park closed very early, sometimes, like, 8:00 p.m. early); this is no longer the case and looks not to be the case for the foreseeable future. Based on my own anecdotal evidence, the majority of DLR visitors are already AP holders; making APs even less expensive would likely make things even worse.

 

[disneysteve]

Disney has brought down the hordes by their own fault.

For sure. Disney has become a victim of their own success. Now they have to figure out how to deal with it or else it is going to ruin them.

 

[JimmyV]

What bothers me is when they take something that was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it.

I haven't finished reading all 19 pages, but to me, it can't be said any better than this. I agree that not everyone should get a trophy. But that misses the point. At WDW, it was never the case that everyone got a trophy. But it used to be that the trophies were awarded for expertise and vigilance. If you had been to the MK ten times before and your experience led you to find the perfect place to watch a parade or fireworks show, then your expertise was rewarded with a great view. You got the trophy and others did not. Or if a particular spot to watch a parade or fireworks show was well-known, then the trophy would go to the most vigilant people who were willing to give up three hours of their day to stake out that spot. The "front and center" view from the train station was open to anyone who wanted to sit there for two+ hours. Vigilance, persistence and patience was rewarded. Those folks got the trophies. Now, the trophies go to anyone who wants to show up at the last minute, but who has paid $$$ for the great viewing area. How long will it be before Rope Drop is a hard ticket event? The people who got to the turnstile an hour before the park opened and who used to get the "first in line at Space Mountain" trophy no longer will. That trophy will go to the person who shows up 10 minutes before the park opens and pays a fee. The doling out of trophies has not changed. What has changed is to whom they are awarded. This is not about "everybody getting a trophy." Quite the contrary. This is about meting out a finite number of trophies, just as it has always been. Only, the criteria as to who gets one has changed.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I haven't finished reading all 19 pages, but to me, it can't be said any better than this. I agree that not everyone should get a trophy. But that misses the point. At WDW, it was never the case that everyone got a trophy. But it used to be that the trophies were awarded for expertise and vigilance. If you had been to the MK ten times before and your experience led you to find the perfect place to watch a parade or fireworks show, then your expertise was rewarded with a great view. You got the trophy and others did not. Or if a particular spot to watch a parade or fireworks show was well-known, then the trophy would go to the most vigilant people who were willing to give up three hours of their day to stake out that spot. The "front and center" view from the train station was open to anyone who wanted to sit there for two+ hours. Vigilance, persistence and patience was rewarded. Those folks got the trophies. Now, the trophies go to anyone who wants to show up at the last minute, but who has paid $$$ for the great viewing area. How long will it be before Rope Drop is a hard ticket event? The people who got to the turnstile an hour before the park opened and who used to get the "first in line at Space Mountain" trophy no longer will. That trophy will go to the person who shows up 10 minutes before the park opens and pays a fee. The doling out of trophies has not changed. What has changed is to whom they are awarded. This is not about "everybody getting a trophy." Quite the contrary. This is about meting out a finite number of trophies, just as it has always been. Only, the criteria as to who gets one has changed.

I don't disagree with this thought, but one question I have is: what has been officially announced qualifies as changing something that "was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it."?

 

[JimmyV]

I don't disagree with this thought, but one question I have is: what has been officially announced qualifies as changing something that "was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it."?

One immediate answer is being able to access the second floor of the train station for parade and fireworks viewing.
http://www.disboards.com/threads/whats-up-with-the-mk-train-station-platform-during-parades.3493776/

 

[TheMaxRebo]

One immediate answer is being able to access the second floor of the train station for parade and fireworks viewing.
http://www.disboards.com/threads/whats-up-with-the-mk-train-station-platform-during-parades.3493776/

Well, even reading that it isn't 100% clear what this is for but the speculation is they moved the VIP area from the bridge to that spot - so moving something, not something new for

I fully agree this could be a bad trend - but also think it is dangerous (and unhealthy) to stress and complain about things that haven't full happened yet