RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[hayesdvc]

I am a member (purchased resale twice) so the policy change this time does not effect me. But for discussion, as everyone has said in this thread this truly does make multiple member classes; direct /old resale/new resale. I think most would agree the 2011 changes had little effect on resale purchases. The economic effect on trading your points out for cruises, collections, etc results in losing money before and after this 2011 policy change as compared to renting your points then paying cash. When discounts are not available to a specific group, if that group will purchase what would be discounted anyway, you are taking money directly out of the pocket of that group;no other way to spin it. The only solace to the new DVC members that purchased resale, it is much easier never to have a perk than be given one and then take it away. For you experts on the contractual language, I have a couple of questions/observations about the "new" membership category. If DVD does not get the direct purchase sales increase this policy change was designed, instead of taking something else away (not sure what that would be) from the "new resale members" could DVD, JUST ON THIS CLASS OF MEMBER (or maybe even a member who has purchased resale exclusively at any point in time): 1. apply a reservation/resort fee charge 2. Change booking windows 3. Have a different point chart 4. Other resort differences. As many have said, the only thing you are guaranteed contractually by purchasing DVC (whether direct or resale) is a real estate interest. This interest alone will save you money in the long run if you plan on staying at deluxe resorts when visiting WDW at least every other year. Legally, could Disney change those rules for this new class of members? Is there anything stopping DVD from going back to the 2011 policy change and state the members who purchased resale exclusively prior to that time frame no long has the right to trade out (cruises, adventure, etc)?

 

[gr8tdame]

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, I have to say that when we signed on our resale contract (which is currently awaiting estoppel) we were under the impression that we'd at least get the currently-advertised perks. However, the biggest issue for me is the spiteful nature of what Disney is doing. By not giving us a membership card and banning us from member events, they're basically saying we're not members. We aren't paying all this money to be treated like second class citizens. Disney's "high school mean girl" approach really has us rethinking our resale purchase. It gives me an uneasy feeling signing a contract for the next 41 years with a company that can treat people like this.

I agree I did not sign a resale contract with the understanding that I would not be a "DVC member", quite the contrary.

 

[Sammie]

I think an other aspect we have not touched on, is this. You have to always remember except for direct sales DVC has no cash flow. They have to sell to make money. If they are going to continue to be able to offer any perks at all to members, they have to be able to either buy or negotiate for them. Now they can go forward and say look these members are true to Disney, they gave their money to us. Let's reward them. Also they have greatly reduced the number involved.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Good luck with that. Sorry to say, since I'm in the same boat, but the broker takes their commission out of the seller's money, not the buyer's. The broker has little to no incentive to eat the deposit. And honestly, I don't blame them. The brokers didn't cause this mess.

I would not blame the broker either but regardless, the program in place when you made your offer and had it submitted to ROFR is not the same as of 4/4/16. The conditions of ownership were changed in 4/4/16 without any advance warning. Your broker was even told on 4/4 that you were still fine and then rescinded that on 4/5/16.

I do believe that since the conditions present when you made your offer have now been changed you may have the ability to rescind your offer if you wish.

If you are still happy with your resale, then you should keep what you have already done. If I was not happy with what has happened, I would seek legal advice and challenge the validity of the contract currently under consideration.

Best of luck!

 

[jnjhuddle]

Where do you see this happening?

In the DVC rent/trade board it states clearly:



So someone books at 11 months then holds onto it for 10 months until they can list it? And they can only do it twice a year? Unless they pay the Dis.

I apologize. I see this happening on the other boards all the time, not here on the dis boards.

 

[mynameisnobody]

I would not blame the broker either but regardless, the program in place when you made your offer and had it submitted to ROFR is not the same as of 4/4/16. The conditions of ownership were changed in 4/4/16 without any advance warning. Your broker was even told on 4/4 that you were still fine and then rescinded that on 4/5/16.

I do believe that since the conditions present when you made your offer have now been changed you may have the ability to rescind your offer if you wish.

If you are still happy with your resale, then you should keep what you have already done. If I was not happy with what has happened, I would seek legal advice and challenge the validity of the contract currently under consideration.

Best of luck!

I assume that all the good brokers use a contract with similar language. Mine specifically mentions incidental benefits and says they could be terminated at any time without notice. I remember seeing this when I signed the contract but just looked at it again. So there is no recourse, if you rescind your offer, you lose your deposit. Neither the broker or the seller did anything that changed anything.

 

[hcortesis]

Sort of makes me think they are going to continue to offer new and current perks/discounts/benefits to direct purchasers in order to differentiate direct from resales purchases.

 

[freediverdude]

Technically it's true, everybody was within their contractual rights during all this, including Disney. The product did change, but it's covered in the fine print that the incidental perks can change at any time. It would be nice of Disney to move the grandfathering back to all those who had the paperwork submitted, but they don't have to, I guess we will see.

 

[CMNJ]

I would not blame the broker either but regardless, the program in place when you made your offer and had it submitted to ROFR is not the same as of 4/4/16. The conditions of ownership were changed in 4/4/16 without any advance warning. Your broker was even told on 4/4 that you were still fine and then rescinded that on 4/5/16.

I do believe that since the conditions present when you made your offer have now been changed you may have the ability to rescind your offer if you wish.

If you are still happy with your resale, then you should keep what you have already done. If I was not happy with what has happened, I would seek legal advice and challenge the validity of the contract currently under consideration.

Best of luck!

Unfortunately if the contract the buyer signed was anything like the one we signed in 2014 they wouldn't have a leg to stand on-our resale broker's contract specifically addressed incidental benefits offered by DVD in the final clause. It specifically stated about the resale restrictions as of March 2011 but also stressed that any current or future benefits were also not guaranteed. DVD could terminate them at any time so buyers should not to purchase based upon their continued availability or their ability to transfer any benefits should they choose to sell in the future.

Good luck with that. Sorry to say, since I'm in the same boat, but the broker takes their commission out of the seller's money, not the buyer's. The broker has little to no incentive to eat the deposit. And honestly, I don't blame them. The brokers didn't cause this mess.

Obviously the broker wants the sale to go through so they get the full commission but if the buyer does back out they do get some money. Our contract stated that if we backed out we lost our deposit. After the escrow agent/closing company deducted fees for any costs incurred the remaining balance would be split 50/50 between the broker and seller. We had initially been considering a contract with the timeshare store and I believe their contract said the same.

 

[CMNJ]

I assume that all the good brokers use a contract with similar language. Mine specifically mentions incidental benefits and says they could be terminated at any time without notice. I remember seeing this when I signed the contract but just looked at it again. So there is no recourse, if you rescind your offer, you lose your deposit. Neither the broker or the seller did anything that changed anything.

Whoops-got interrupted typing my reply earlier-saw you had already responded

 

[LisaS]

I'm thinking of cancelling my resale! Can they legally change a policy while basically in transit?we have already placed a binder on the property. To me this seems unlawful seeing as money has already been exchanged.AmI wrong?

The problem is, perks are not part of a policy. They come and go and are not guaranteed. So yes, Disney can legally eliminate perks at any time. I suspect your contract specifically states that any perks are subject to change and not guaranteed. If you are past the point where Florida law allows you to rescind your purchase you could lose your deposit if you back out.

You are purchasing from a private party, not Disney. The seller's contract was pulled off the market when you agreed to buy it so they are entitled to something (part of your deposit) as compensation if you back out after the deadline to rescind. So take a good look at your contract to see if you can still rescind (if that's what you want to do) and then contact your broker.

I hope that Disney gives this some more thought and grandfathers in anyone whose contract has been submitted for ROFR, as they originally stated they would do.

 

[suebeelin]

If I might chime in here-- I agree it's bad business practice not to grandfather those who have already submitted to rofr. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth-- and I'm not affected by this new action at all.

In fact, I contemplated buying a small direct at poly.... Now I'm DEFINITELY NOT EVER BUYING DIRECT.

If anything, I'm almost jonesing to get rid of our 200pts at BLT that we got last year. Maybe I'll just rent that one in perpetuity if the resale market drops as I can make a 7-9% interest on my principal. The rental market will be even hotter after this half baked move on dvd's part bc new "resale owners" are, essentially, the same as renters (except they put a lot of cash upfront) going forward!!

We will keep out 200pts at bwv till the end, however. That was a pre 3-11 contract.

But this pull the rug from under move??? I no longer trust Disney. I'm hoping to decrease my point holdings in the near future before they devalue the timeshare resale value further!!

 

[lilkitty819]

Maybe it is me, but it sounds like even the people that were grandfathered in, no longer are going to be able to get the perks. I would check on that

 

[Mousewerks]

Something I have not seen mentioned in this long thread is what this does to direct purchasers. By pushing people to purchase new contracts from Disney it clearly devalues current holdings. Here's why. A resale purchase adds no new points into the system. A direct purchase injects new points into the system (ostensibly offset by physical property) thus devaluing the currency if you will, which are vacation points. This devaluation is sneaky though because when they build a new DVC resort such as VGF, the points needed to book the property are more than say SSR. This has the effect of devaluing the SSR points because the VGF owner can get more at SSR than the SSR owner can get at VGF. The net is that it puts stress on all the older properties, especially the near-park ones. Making the statement that you should "buy where you want to stay" (i.e. get the 11 month booking advantage) that much more important.

So I think there is an arbitrage opportunity then to purchase resale for those who are grandfathered in. This allows them to offset the devaluing of their points.

 

[tjkraz]

But this pull the rug from under move??? I no longer trust Disney and can't wait to decrease my point holdings-- before they devalue the timeshare resale value further!!

Strictly my opinion but panic listings like this are more likely to depress resale values in the short term than this DVC policy change. If the volume of listings suddenly doubles or triples because a couple hundred owners start running scared, THAT will undoubtedly drive prices downward.

In a few weeks, the lack of perks for resale will simply be the new norm. Most buyers will still see the true value in DVC--the savings on room rates--and not be particularly bothered by the fact that they don't save 10% at Olivia's.

In recent months, resale prices have been as high as ever. It's not like DVC has an established history of systematically devaluing the product. Members can grumble about the loss of free valet parking or some favored restaurant discount. Subjectively DVC may be less valuable to certain owners but objectively the resale values have never been higher.

I don't particularly approve with the manner in which communications were handled but I'm also not worried about the possibility that some other (proverbial) shoe will drop.

In fact, as an owner I'm curiously optimistic to see what sort of perks DVC plans to offer in coming years. Until today, I suspected the 25th anniversary events would not extend beyond 2016--that DVC was investing a lot of money in this year-long bash but would never duplicate the effort.

But now that DVC has signaled they plan to leverage "Member Extras" to further their sales, I expect we'll see similar events in the years to come. Good news for those willing to pay the price.

 

[suebeelin]

I wouldn't sell below what I bought my BLT for, but I would rent with a 7-9% rate of return on my principal UNTIL I can get a full return on my initial investment.

My point is... I've soured on dvc and Disney. I'm sitting on 5k worth of tickets right now (3-4yrs worth) bc of the ticket increases, where I prebought years worth of tickets. In addition, I have 400 pts between two "premium" near park resorts (bwv and BLT) and can't wait to downsize.

I could have once been described as an avid Disney fan... Before all this blatant obnoxious money grab.

Now I'm just counting the years down before our 2 and 6yr old boys would enjoy legoland, universal and Atlantis more. Im most excited by the prospect of Atlantis... And I'm feeling quite "over" Disney at this point.

 

[ParkHoppers]

What a wonderful way for Disney to help us all celebrate the grand 25th anniversary of DVC.
Nothing says celebrate like taking perks away from perspective DVC owners.

Guess I will say this again and add a kick in the belly from Disney.

 

[dvcdream4fld]

I posted this another thread. I just wanted to post here to relieve some more frustration.

I'm in ROFR. I'm also a current DVC owner. I definitely bought into DVC for the savings, whether it's discounted rooms or tickets. I enjoy taking my family and friends with me and use my discounted rooms and benefits, so that benefits my whole family (even the non-DVC members). Less benefits would have definitely effected the way I negotiated my contract and whether or not Disney has the power to take away those benefits or not, doesn't excuse the fact that entered into a contract without knowledge of the reduced benefits. Call it what you will, but I expected more out of Disney's customer service.

 

[NoodlesMom]

This link was posted on another thread. Please excuse me if it's already been posted. The verbiage here seems to suggest that this change will affect all resale owners and not only for the newly purchase contracts. What do you think?

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...formembers/memberbenefitsguide/MEADSFinal.pdf

"and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras"

 

[Sammie]

This link was posted on another thread. Please excuse me if it's already been posted. The verbiage here seems to suggest that this change will affect all resale owners and not only for the newly purchase contracts. What do you think?

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...formembers/memberbenefitsguide/MEADSFinal.pdf

"and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras"

The next sentence after that clarifies this.
Please know that as a current Disney Vacation Club Member (regardless of when or where you bought your membership), your access to Disney Differences and these additional Membership Extras will not be affected by this policy change.