RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[bumbershoot]

there is significant value in the DISNEY brand. And their future revenue depends on the value of that name and its association with quality. In general timeshare companies have a horrible reputation. While I don't think that this is nearly enough to make Disney = timeshare weasel, there is a bit of a reputation cost.

Ah, see, for me, even though I'm not affected by it, I am whammo, 100% in the Disney = weasel camp.

But I hated Disney in my 20s. Both because of the big corporation thing, but also because my mom and stepdad lived in Country Walk Estates in Miami. The one utterly flattened in Andrew. The one where they found out the builders had used finish nails instead of REAL nails. The one where there were lawsuits aplenty and the builders (Arvada) lost lost lost.

And...Disney is the one that STARTED Country Walk. They started it up, then left the builders to it. They used their lawyers to keep their name out of the lawsuits.

My mom/stepdad sold their house and moved to VA the year before Andrew. Their house was the ONE left standing, according to neighbors. Theirs was the showcase house, one of the first built. It had real nails in it. Disney got off scot-free b/c they managed to keep their name out of it. But I still remember the totally adorable "turtle crossing!" road signs, and all the other cutesie disney things all over...

I started getting over that in my 30s, and went all into fandom for awhile. Bought DVC.

And then...found Universal (same visit when we were first at WDW and realized we didn't want to go back to a villa after 4 days at Uni). Found "mummy dust" there. etc etc etc. Then alllll these changes since just '09 when we bought and '10 when we first visited WDW. Sooooo many changes. Cost increases, value decreases. Blaming the customer for things. DCL changes, blaming the customer. This, that, the other, all blaming the customer.

Now this. Which doesn't even impact me. But it's just ENOUGH. I'm annoyed. We own a timeshare, and it is NO different than any other timeshare. No different from the RCI membership stepdad had, where they tried for a year to find a place for me in Ireland and never did get it, and had to pay out of pocket for my week there since they had promised accommodations. NO better than the timeshares that keep you there for 5 hours. Just no better.

Weasels.

 

[Ohana2011]

I'd point out again that anyone can still buy an annual pass and get all the same discounts that were just removed from the DVC membership. The pass will cost a little more because unless your a FL resident you can't get the gold AP but you can get a pass and still have the discounts. I did that before buying DVC.

The other perks? For those that don't know they are not scheduled with enough advance notice and are so limited that often they are booked up before most even read the email. The Merry Mixer? We finally made it to our first one last year although we had been there during the time previous years or else just missed it by a day or two because DVC, once again, did not announce the dates far enough in advance and then changed the day of the week. I finally stopped even trying to guess and just buy an ornament on ebay if it's cute from one of the local DVCer's that go to every party and pick them up to sell. And my thought after going? Nice enough, but I don't know that we'd take the time to attend again. TIW? If you bought an AP you could qualify for it with that. But the way they've been raising the price on it it's not the perk it once was.

This all has been very poorly handled but if DVC made sense for you in the first place then it likely still should.

Well put. My family and I are disappointed, but we've been going for years without these perks and probably won't miss what we didn't have. We purchased an annual pass and found the discounts don't apply to everything. The cost of TIW was fine if we split the cost with our family & purchased 2 cards. Keep in mind TIW covers sit down dining only, so we didn't save on all meals & drinks... And eBay does have a lot of merch if you wanted it (or get to know a DVC member w/perks & ask them to pick up something for you).

It's a bummer, but if we do indeed pass ROFR, we'll be getting our rooms at a discount for the remainder of our contract and who knows... We may resell it at some point & put the $ into a direct sale or other TS property.

 

[PBB]

From Ken Potrock Letter

"We see this policy change as a very positive step to ensure that, going forward, our Members who purchase directly from Disney Vacation Club receive a premium advantage – in addition to all the magic that Disney has to offer."

This is a very insulting sentence to the members,especially, "going forward".

Going Forward, we don't care about the current members. We only care about the next member.

Going Forward, we only care about the next sucker.

Going Forwards, we are going to ban Resales altogether. Your a member for life .........

Going Forward, we are going to make you hate your DVC Membership so much that you won't use your points. That way we can rent a unit room for $35 per point and the member can pay the annual expenses at $6 per point and DVC keeps the $35 per point!

Going Forward, we are going to make "Magical" t-shirts made from renewable tissue paper collected by our refugee mousekeeping cast members. These Vera Bradley Doonesbury Magical t shirts are extremely ugly and last only a day and are in our empty gift shops with a discount of 3% to the new special magical members. You can recycle your own tissue paper T shirt in a behind the scenes experience for $375 per adult and $350 per child (conception to birth)

Going Forward, DVC guarantees your room is only available after 4 pm not ready at 4 pm. (Sadly, a Front Desk Cast Member at Kidani actually said this to us when we went to check in at 4:30 pm and the room want ready)

Goin Forward, we are going to send out Disney Files Magazine that only speaks of new products that Disney is selling that does not relate to your membership. In fact, we are not going to mention DVC at all. Oops, that is already happening.

Seriously, How stupid and petty DVC has become. I guess I need to be reprocessed for brainwashing. Ken Potruck used the word "Magic" in his letter and I did not aimlessly want to hand over money.

A serious question.......

Who pays for all these DVC Member nights celebrating the 25th Anniversary? Is this coming from annual dues? If so, how are they going to charge a future non-member and not allow them access?

Solution!!!

Pssst......What is Disneys Best Kept Secret??

Answer........Everything we told you is a magical lie!

 

[skier_pete]

Gosh I'm having a hard time keeping up on this thread.

Sort of makes me think they are going to continue to offer new and current perks/discounts/benefits to direct purchasers in order to differentiate direct from resales purchases.

This is it exactly. This is not really about screwing the resale folks, it's all about marketing DVC for new sales. From what I hear, they've been slyly talking up this point. They will NOT discontinue these points for direct buyers - this is a big part of the marketing strategy. "Oh sure you could buy resale, but you miss out on THIS and THIS and THIS."

I really can't be THAT critical for Disney suspending the perks for resale - but I feel the most critical point is the WAY they did it, suspending it with no notice, and while some buyers that may have already been in the process of buying beyond where they can back out, but lose out on the perks. (I still feel like we are seeing conflicting words about that.)

I guess if I was buying right now, I would try and get out of the contract if possible and wait. I still suspect you will see a moderate dip in resale prices in the short term. In the long term, people looking into resale will not be as angry about this because they will see that it is already in place, and will just accept that "OK we don't get the discounts, but is it worth saving $20,000?" In the end I would probably still consider resale before direct. (And as others pointed out, consider the 25 point contract to get my membership.)

 

[lmkoons]

Does anyone happen to have an email address for DVC? I can't seem to find one anywhere. I know it likely won't make a difference to them, but I wanted to send them an email letting them know how unfair this is to those of us currently in the process of buying a resale contract. It's not so much that they took away the extras (which they repeatedly said they could do at anytime). It's the fact that they're treating us like we're not even members now. We now receive the same benefits as someone who is renting points. It's ridiculous and petty. Plus, I feel they should grandfather anyone who signed a resale contract prior to 4/4, not just those who have closed by that date. When we signed our contract back in January, we assumed we were at least going to be considered members. We're now 1-2 weeks from closing and they changed that and we now have no recourse (unless we want to lose our $1,000 escrow deposit). From what I'm hearing, when they made changes back in 2011, they at least gave people notice.

 

[bonmarie_123]

I posted this another thread. I just wanted to post here to relieve some more frustration.

I'm in ROFR. I'm also a current DVC owner. I definitely bought into DVC for the savings, whether it's discounted rooms or tickets. I enjoy taking my family and friends with me and use my discounted rooms and benefits, so that benefits my whole family (even the non-DVC members). Less benefits would have definitely effected the way I negotiated my contract and whether or not Disney has the power to take away those benefits or not, doesn't excuse the fact that entered into a contract without knowledge of the reduced benefits. Call it what you will, but I expected more out of Disney's customer service.[/QU

Does anyone happen to have an email address for DVC? I can't seem to find one anywhere. I know it likely won't make a difference to them, but I wanted to send them an email letting them know how unfair this is to those of us currently in the process of buying a resale contract. It's not so much that they took away the extras (which they repeatedly said they could do at anytime). It's the fact that they're treating us like we're not even members now. We now receive the same benefits as someone who is renting points. It's ridiculous and petty. Plus, I feel they should grandfather anyone who signed a resale contract prior to 4/4, not just those who have closed by that date. When we signed our contract back in January, we assumed we were at least going to be considered members. We're now 1-2 weeks from closing and they changed that and we now have no recourse (unless we want to lose our $1,000 escrow deposit). From what I'm hearing, when they made changes back in 2011, they at least gave people notice.

Re Email:
Ken.potrock@disney.com
Karl.holz@disney.com

My broker at dvc resale market encouraged me to voice my displeasure here. Currently have a contract in ROFR, sent 3/14

 

[Minniesgal]

If what you are saying is true, it's possible that people who were in the process as of 4/3 could take it to court and possibly eventually get some deposit back, depending how it goes. I guess it would depend on the person's willingness, how much their deposit was, if they have access to a lawyer that knows the fineries of this type of law, etc. And since the timeshare law is fairly new, there may not be any previous cases to go by something like this, I don't know. Someone would really have to be willing to dig into this with their lawyer and spend some money going up against Disney's army of lawyers trying to set the precedent- any volunteers? Lol

Fairly sure this wouldn't work as perks are not contractual.

Does anyone happen to have an email address for DVC? I can't seem to find one anywhere. I know it likely won't make a difference to them, but I wanted to send them an email letting them know how unfair this is to those of us currently in the process of buying a resale contract. It's not so much that they took away the extras (which they repeatedly said they could do at anytime). It's the fact that they're treating us like we're not even members now. We now receive the same benefits as someone who is renting points. It's ridiculous and petty. Plus, I feel they should grandfather anyone who signed a resale contract prior to 4/4, not just those who have closed by that date. When we signed our contract back in January, we assumed we were at least going to be considered members. We're now 1-2 weeks from closing and they changed that and we now have no recourse (unless we want to lose our $1,000 escrow deposit). From what I'm hearing, when they made changes back in 2011, they at least gave people notice.

I don't understand why losing access to variable and removable perks makes people not members

 

[drusba]

From above: "Who pays for all these DVC Member nights celebrating the 25th Anniversary? Is this coming from annual dues? If so, how are they going to charge a future non-member and not allow them access?"

I would assume that DVD is not using any dues to pay for any of the incidental benefits and that should be the case regardless of whether resale purchasers are excluded. Florida law expressly prohibits the use of dues to pay for anything classified as an incidental benefit, Florida Statutes 721.075 (in the new Membership Extras statement, DVD asserts it is acting in compliance with that particular statute; if it is lying it will have far more serious problems than members being angry with it).

 

[suebeelin]

Fairly sure this wouldn't work as perks are not contractual.



I don't understand why losing access to variable and removable perks makes people not members

Perks are not contractual but if it were a material consideration to the negotiations, then as a matter of law, the contract may be rescinded. The legal issue is RELIANCE and whether that reliance was and is material.

That would be for the court to decide. Contracts 101.

It would be an interesting lawsuit-- would a few resale buyers who are "in limbo" be worth fighting a suit that would cost disney hundreds of thousands (even their army of lawyers aren't cheap for them) plus the obvious bad PR for Disney?

If I were in Florida, admitted in Florida, had time on my hands and an injured party, I would likely join or even file the suit.... Even if it's merely out of intellectual curiosity.

 

[dankil13]

Does anyone happen to have an email address for DVC? I can't seem to find one anywhere. I know it likely won't make a difference to them, but I wanted to send them an email letting them know how unfair this is to those of us currently in the process of buying a resale contract. It's not so much that they took away the extras (which they repeatedly said they could do at anytime). It's the fact that they're treating us like we're not even members now. We now receive the same benefits as someone who is renting points. It's ridiculous and petty. Plus, I feel they should grandfather anyone who signed a resale contract prior to 4/4, not just those who have closed by that date. When we signed our contract back in January, we assumed we were at least going to be considered members. We're now 1-2 weeks from closing and they changed that and we now have no recourse (unless we want to lose our $1,000 escrow deposit). From what I'm hearing, when they made changes back in 2011, they at least gave people notice.

This is exactly how I feel...

 

[hbrother]

I can't keep up with if my contract will be grandfathered or not. I just spoke with Disney and this definitely means: No pool hopping, no Top Of the World, no Epcot lounge, no pass discounts. They do say you can get an add on, but no one knows what the minimum would be at this point. No one at Disney is willing to send a list or link to the benefits that would be limited. They will tell you by phone. They did confirm that this was sent to the members. (So if one of you lovely, lovely members would post the list; I and others would be ever so grateful.) The person I spoke with did confirm that transportation to and from the airport would not be affected.

To me this means don't bother with resale. Rent the points it is cheaper and more flexible.

 

[dankil13]

I don't understand why losing access to variable and removable perks makes people not members

We won't be issued member cards.

 

[DisDadDVC]

I can't keep up with if my contract will be grandfathered or not. I just spoke with Disney and this definitely means: No pool hopping, no Top Of the World, no Epcot lounge, no pass discounts. They do say you can get an add on, but no one knows what the minimum would be at this point. No one at Disney is willing to send a list or link to the benefits that would be limited. They will tell you by phone. They did confirm that this was sent to the members. (So if one of you lovely, lovely members would post the list; I and others would be ever so grateful.) The person I spoke with did confirm that transportation to and from the airport would not be affected.

To me this means don't bother with resale. Rent the points it is cheaper and more flexible.

Let me stop you right there. Call back and get another answer. Then call back and get another one....

 

[suebeelin]

I can't keep up with if my contract will be grandfathered or not. I just spoke with Disney and this definitely means: No pool hopping, no Top Of the World, no Epcot lounge, no pass discounts. They do say you can get an add on, but no one knows what the minimum would be at this point. No one at Disney is willing to send a list or link to the benefits that would be limited. They will tell you by phone. They did confirm that this was sent to the members. (So if one of you lovely, lovely members would post the list; I and others would be ever so grateful.) The person I spoke with did confirm that transportation to and from the airport would not be affected.

To me this means don't bother with resale. Rent the points it is cheaper and more flexible.

I do agree this new rule treats future (post 4.4.16) resale purchases as if they are now renters. IMO, it will only put more pressure on the rental market-- and it will slow or dip the resale market.

I'm so sorry- the fact that they did this without notice, excluding those who submitted rofr before 4.4.16, is disgusting... It means they don't even care about the pretense of caring... Customer service is dead, there is no semblance of magic and short term money grabbing is more important than all else.

I can't wait for both my kids to outgrow Disney and I'll be taking them to Atlantis instead....

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I do think the idea that TOTW and pool hopping will be there is on very shaky ground.

1. If new resale buyers don't get a member card, they have no member card to show.

2. Pools are increasingly gated, which means to hop you'll need to show something.

3. TOTW asks for member card.

The conclusion that can be drawn from these three items is, well, obvious.

 

[Ohana2011]

I can't keep up with if my contract will be grandfathered or not. I just spoke with Disney and this definitely means: No pool hopping, no Top Of the World, no Epcot lounge, no pass discounts. They do say you can get an add on, but no one knows what the minimum would be at this point. No one at Disney is willing to send a list or link to the benefits that would be limited. They will tell you by phone. They did confirm that this was sent to the members. (So if one of you lovely, lovely members would post the list; I and others would be ever so grateful.) The person I spoke with did confirm that transportation to and from the airport would not be affected.

To me this means don't bother with resale. Rent the points it is cheaper and more flexible.

Now no TOWL, pool hopping?? This keeps changing daily. First contracts were told they would be grandfathered in, then no discounts - but yes to TOWL and pool hopping... Now nothing at all? Sounds as though they're making it up as they go along.

 

[hbrother]

From my broker as of 10:15AM:

We are sending out notices to all Buyers today that includes the Disney notice from Monday and the Disney decision to not honor sales made prior to April 4 as they stated they would.

The reversal of the Disney decision came at 5:09 pm last evening and we have 500+ buyers to notify today.

Disney will not honor the Membership discounts for you.

Disney can be reached at 1 800 800-9800 option 2

 

[npmadsen]

Re Email:
Ken.potrock@disney.com
Karl.holz@disney.com

My broker at dvc resale market encouraged me to voice my displeasure here. Currently have a contract in ROFR, sent 3/14

Thank you
I will send emails
Just need to get the correct wording anyone here a good writer and would like to share what language they are using

 

[hbrother]

I think the worst thing about this is that it is Disney that created the resale market. If they would have bought from members as they had interest, there would have been no need. As it is they have very limited options in what you can buy and how much. The prices are high and the interest charged horrifying.

I know I wanted Beach Club, Disney does not have it. Resale does. Whose fault is that? Even now Disney could just have exercised ROFR and just bought anything they wanted.

 

[skier_pete]

I've said this before---more than once---but it bears repeating:

Disney is a company that makes money by selling happiness. That's not the same thing as "Disney wants me, personally, to be happy." Indeed, Disney wants to get as much money per "unit happiness" as it can. In turn, we consumers would prefer to get more happiness for our buck. So, despite the fact that Disney sells happiness, the company is also in conflict with its consumers.

Nearly every long-term Disney fan eventually encounters this realization, and that day is never a pleasant day. But, if you can live with the mercenary aspects of the relationship, it's still not half bad spending money with a company selling happiness.

See - I feel I've known this for my entire adult life. When we went in the nineties we would refer that "that giant sucking sound you hear is Disney sucking all the money out of your wallet". Certainly things have gotten worse, but it's not really different.

As Brian very succinctly noted here - the more frequent you go, the easier it becomes to "sour on" Disney, and I would advice if you sour on Disney to go somewhere else. There are millions (maybe billions) of people in this world that have wonderful experiences that don't involve a Disney Park. Don't link all your happiness to a timeshare service.