Disney Riviera Resort

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

Oy vey. YES they are subjective. Don't fall over, but WE AGREE!!! Apparently always have on that point!!

My only other point was that when you throw all that subjectivity into a supply/demand/value blender, Disney HAS priced these right IF occupancy is solid, etc. That is separate from the subjective stuff.

I'm jumping in so sorry if I appear to be interrupting.

Just want to say that Disney has priced those views quite smartly. The upcharge for some of those views is crazy high for my family (unless the view significantly enhances location, which it occasionally does) and I can't imagine paying what they are asking for a simple view. Maybe at the beach, but not at Disney.

However, I (and Disney) know that quite a few people do find it worth the upcharge. Those people will pay it. And this goes to your last point: It doesn't matter if those crazy high upcharge view rooms consistently fill. When they do, great. Disney has made a ton of extra money for no additional output. When they don't, all Disney has to do is upgrade those in standard views to the upgraded view. When upcharge view rooms don't fill, overbook standard view. Those guests view it as magical pixie dust and feel extra special. They've saved hundreds of dollars!

I think it's quite a good money making policy on Disney's part.

I book standard whenever I can. There's a decent chance of being upgraded to a better view.

 

[jade1]

I can choose either...which is the laisse faire argument I hear...what a purely capitalist world!!

My point is the only other option is having all rooms the same points/price at WDW, an ocean or anywhere. Is that what you recommend?

Or should street view be a discount?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My point is the only other option is having all rooms the same points/price at WDW, an ocean or anywhere. Is that what you recommend?

Or should street view be a discount?

At one time...things were exaclty that...

Still are in some dvc places.

 

[Roxyfire]

At one time...things were exaclty that...

Still are in some dvc places.

I don't know if that's realistic anymore. Even on planes you have people rating the various seat locations on every single type of aircraft. I guarantee part of the reason they charge for a MK view other than someone will pay for it is if they had one rate for the whole resort, let's say the Contemporary, you'd have people complaining day and night about how their room location isn't magical enough. And their friend/sister/cousin's uncle paid the same rate and they got a wonderful MK view and why can't they have that view. On and on. You know this. I do think they go way too far in some cases, where if you can see 10% of the pool therefore it's a pool view and stuff like that.

But if anything, the view category gives that person has an idea of what they booked, generally speaking. If they don't really care or want the lowest possible rate, they book that. If they want something better, they can spend their own money on it. Your point about the Kohl's pricing that I've seen multiple times makes total sense. The overall room rate increases are way out of line, but they aren't totally crazy for charging people who are super picky about what they want to see out of their window.

 

[jade1]

At one time...things were exaclty that...

Still are in some dvc places.

Not talking "some DVC places" as some do not really have an obvious better view.

But do you recommend that at all DVC, WDW hotels and ocean hotels etc?

Or should street view, dumpster views etc be cheaper or fewer points than ocean views, MK views etc?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not talking "some DVC places" as some do not really have an obvious better view.

But do you recommend that at all DVC, WDW hotels and ocean hotels etc?

Or should street view, dumpster views etc be cheaper or fewer points than ocean views, MK views etc?

I think I've been clear: once you gain access to the facilities at the hotel, the view is kinda moot.

I'd like to track just how much time people spend looking out the window a day on average. My guess is it falls under the 10 minute range. It is what it is.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't know if that's realistic anymore. Even on planes you have people rating the various seat locations on every single type of aircraft. I guarantee part of the reason they charge for a MK view other than someone will pay for it is if they had one rate for the whole resort, let's say the Contemporary, you'd have people complaining day and night about how their room location isn't magical enough. And their friend/sister/cousin's uncle paid the same rate and they got a wonderful MK view and why can't they have that view. On and on. You know this. I do think they go way too far in some cases, where if you can see 10% of the pool therefore it's a pool view and stuff like that.

But if anything, the view category gives that person has an idea of what they booked, generally speaking. If they don't really care or want the lowest possible rate, they book that. If they want something better, they can spend their own money on it. Your point about the Kohl's pricing that I've seen multiple times makes total sense. The overall room rate increases are way out of line, but they aren't totally crazy for charging people who are super picky about what they want to see out of their window.

No arguments...I know why they do these things.

My overall take is don't fall into the trap of "personal choice". It's a societal thing...people make "my opinion" choices and believe them to always be the right choice. That's what's changed in my lifetime: people have lost sight that they are often wrong...but it's an acceptance of every consumer choice society.

So that's just it. No way to change it or reverse it...but the laws of common sense haven't been altered.

You know that everyone has got an opinion...however many people sit on their brains too. The idea that they are "just as right as anyone else" is naive and laughable.

Some people do completely stupid things...nowhere more so than in wdw.
The world continues to spin.

My stance is the more things you fall for...the worse the prices get.

 

[preemiemama]

My stance is the more things you fall for...the worse the prices get.

This exactly. We've seen it happening first hand- the erosion of the quality in service in favor of the paid experience. Also the reason I agree to be skeptical about what this resort will actually include. I think Disney currently believes that the gondola and the rooftop restaurant view will be enough to justify the current rates at other DVC resorts for this one.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This exactly. We've seen it happening first hand- the erosion of the quality in service in favor of the paid experience. Also the reason I agree to be skeptical about what this resort will actually include. I think Disney currently believes that the gondola and the rooftop restaurant view will be enough to justify the current rates at other DVC resorts for this one.

Indeed. That's what I'm thinking. Can't shake that one.

The thing I remember about this is that for all the warts, the old guard management through evil Mikey tended to go "overboard" as far as quality when they built the wdw resorts. The reason the dvc/deluxe hybrid has worked so well is that they had "nicer than what you originally paid for" hotels to use as the base for a dvc add-on. Believe it or not, they weren't always so overpriced. That shark was jumped by iger.

So how do they do from scratch? I looked at the concept art again - just for curiosity - and it indeed appears to be about 8 stories and boring as hell.

Granted more details will come...but this doesn't look like a very interesting place to stay on early returns. Very bland theme too...much like Saratoga.

I hope whoever answered the tracking surveys they did for this said "don't build crap!"...not "yay! More disney! More food and wine (old)! Wishes! Magic! Dreams! Wonder!"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not talking "some DVC places" as some do not really have an obvious better view.

But do you recommend that at all DVC, WDW hotels and ocean hotels etc?

Or should street view, dumpster views etc be cheaper or fewer points than ocean views, MK views etc?

But yet...the lack of "view" at beach club has never seemed to affect anyone's enjoyment of what they get...because its about the location and the ameninities.

I can love this new Bon bini tower If they have great amenities. A view won't improve that if they don't. Apples to grapefruits.

 

[preemiemama]

Indeed. That's what I'm thinking. Can't shake that one.

The thing I remember about this is that for all the warts, the old guard management through evil Mikey tended to go "overboard" as far as quality when they built the wdw resorts. The reason the dvc/deluxe hybrid has worked so well is that they had "nicer than what you originally paid for" hotels to use as the base for a dvc add-on. Believe it or not, they weren't always so overpriced. That shark was jumped by iger.

So how do they do from scratch? I looked at the concept art again - just for curiosity - and it indeed appears to be about 8 stories and boring as hell.

Granted more details will come...but this doesn't look like a very interesting place to stay on early returns. Very bland theme too...much like Saratoga.

I hope whoever answered the tracking surveys they did for this said "don't build crap!"...not "yay! More disney! More food and wine (old)! Wishes! Magic! Dreams! Wonder!"

I agree. And do you mean Saratoga, where there are now room categories that charge more points to be closer to the main building or Disney Springs? You are paying extra, but not for the view...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree. And do you mean Saratoga, where there are now room categories that charge more points to be closer to the main building or Disney Springs? You are paying extra, but not for the view...

Yes...THAT Saratoga. Which proves the counter point to the "views are valuable cause people pay for them". In that case...the view/access was used as a deterrent to force people into the mess of cheap condos that sit behind the "prime" locations. They are driving them like cattle...not trying to suck more points of congress park.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think I've been clear: once you gain access to the facilities at the hotel, the view is kinda moot.

But on this point, you do acknowledge that the entire hotel and real estate industry has already weighed in on this and the consensus is obviously that view does matter -- is not at all moot.

Again... moot to you... not to everyone and obviously not to this industry, right?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You know that everyone has got an opinion...however many people sit on their brains too. The idea that they are "just as right as anyone else" is naive and laughable.

Some people do completely stupid things...nowhere more so than in wdw.

Boy, do I agree with this!! I just wouldn't say liking a view and paying for it -- again, the standard in the hotel and real estate industries -- is a case of people sitting on their brains or the like. Sounds like perhaps you do?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But on this point, you do acknowledge that the entire hotel and real estate industry has already weighed in on this and the consensus is obviously that view does matter -- is not at all moot.

Again... moot to you... not to everyone and obviously not to this industry, right?

Right...location, location, location.

I don't dispute that. I just think in the microcosm of wdw...where you are in a self contained amusement complex where the hotels are there only to funnel you to the guest areas (remember they were about 20 years behind putting cable in their hotel rooms)...the enhancement by a window is minimal. Not quite the difference between oceanfront and next to a walmart in Malibu

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Right...location, location, location.

I don't dispute that. I just think in the microcosm of wdw...where you are in a self contained amusement complex where the hotels are there only to funnel you to the guest areas (remember they were about 20 years behind putting cable in their hotel rooms)...the enhancement by a window is minimal. Not quite the difference between oceanfront and next to a walmart in Malibu

Again -- subjective... and where you have subjectivity, you have SOME customers willing to pay... and where you have some customers willing to pay you charge more because to them, it has value!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Boy, do I agree with this!! I just wouldn't put liking a view and paying for it -- again, the standard in the hotel and real estate industries -- is a case of people sitting on their brains or the like. Sounds like perhaps you do?

I think the views have a value...they're just overpriced.

One thing I would have liked them to see them do is maintain the same upcharge for views...not increase them and add to the deluxe overpricing glut that - make no mistake - is a problem.

As if the view in view that cost $54 in 1999 now costs $165 in the same room? PPG called and asked for more money for the glass or something? Come on.

It's vulture capitalism...and of the rabbit lays there while the vulture picks, I don't feel bad for the bunny.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think the views have a value...they're just overpriced.

One thing I would have liked them to see them do is maintain the same upcharge for views...not increase them and add to the deluxe overpricing glut that - make no mistake - is a problem.

As if the view in view that cost $54 in 1999 now costs $165 in the same room? PPG called and asked for more money for the glass or something? Come on.

It's vulture capitalism...and of the rabbit lays there while the vulture picks, I don't feel bad for the bunny.

I think "vulture capitalism" is a silly term and one that seldom applies -- I certainly don't think it does on WDW hotel view upcharges -- total leisure activity, not at all a necessity, etc., etc. But we do agree on this: I don't feel bad for the bunny. The bunny has the internet for research and free will!

That term aside, I get what you're saying. But again, they are NOT "overpricing" if they have solid occupancy, etc. I'd be curious what the blended price paid is. But given their expansion and them continuing this pricing scheme, seems odd to conclude that it isn't working for them -- i.e. enough people aren't perfectly fine paying that upcharge.

Without their data, impossible to tell if they're getting into dicey territory here. Their behavior suggests that they don't think they are.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Again -- subjective... and where you have subjectivity, you have SOME customers willing to pay... and where you have some customers willing to pay you charge more because to them, it has value!

The subject...is disney hotels...it's a small fishbowl to consider.

We're talking dvc here...so I'm a little more lax as it's prepaid timeshare with fixed cost. But in the rack I say "reject! Reject!"

Do me a favor: next time you go to that stunning, castle view...

1. Track how many minutes a day you notice
2. Figure out the amount of additional points you use for the window during your stay.
3. Divide additional points by cost of room on the other side of the 6 foot hall
4. When you're leaving for the airport, think "boy...it sure would be nice to stay till Sunday instead of going home Friday..."

I'm telling you...it will change your life

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The subject...is disney hotels...it's a small fishbowl to consider.

We're talking dvc here...so I'm a little more lax as it's prepaid timeshare with fixed cost. But in the rack I say "reject! Reject!"

Do me a favor: next time you go to that stunning, castle view...

1. Track how many minutes a day you notice
2. Figure out the amount of additional points you use for the window during your stay.
3. Divide additional points by cost of room on the other side of the 6 foot hall
4. When you're leaving for the airport, think "boy...it sure would be nice to stay till Sunday instead of going home Friday..."

I'm telling you...it will change your life

Nope! We spend a good amount of time enjoying that view, including fireworks on many nights. We go for 10-12 days, the max amount that we can logistically be away. Our dollar is well spent for how WE enjoy our vacations.

ETA: But I love math so I can make the calculation for you and report back!!