Disney Riviera Resort

[Roxyfire]

No arguments...I know why they do these things.

My overall take is don't fall into the trap of "personal choice". It's a societal thing...people make "my opinion" choices and believe them to always be the right choice. That's what's changed in my lifetime: people have lost sight that they are often wrong...but it's an acceptance of every consumer choice society.

So that's just it. No way to change it or reverse it...but the laws of common sense haven't been altered.

You know that everyone has got an opinion...however many people sit on their brains too. The idea that they are "just as right as anyone else" is naive and laughable.

Some people do completely stupid things...nowhere more so than in wdw.
The world continues to spin.

My stance is the more things you fall for...the worse the prices get.

I take that and understand it, with a caveat. I disagree with a lot of people's choices but at the end of the day, it's theirs to own no matter how they rationalize it. I just don't personally care to run people over for what they choose to buy or consume, even if it is silly. People probably think I'm nuts for changing cell phones every couple years. Not realizing why or what it's for. I learned not that long ago that it all depends on where you're standing.

Yes...THAT Saratoga. Which proves the counter point to the "views are valuable cause people pay for them". In that case...the view/access was used as a deterrent to force people into the mess of cheap condos that sit behind the "prime" locations. They are driving them like cattle...not trying to suck more points of congress park.

I agree, views from the window may not be that necessary, but paying for a better location is tangible enough for me. Still won't pull me in to staying in those categories, but I do understand that one too. The "lake view" at bay lake is kind of ridiculous in my book. Not many are clamoring for those inside rooms, as far as I can tell with my limited reading on the topic. They could split the difference between the cost of standard and lake and say "request what you want" but no someone would have to ruin it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think "vulture capitalism" is a silly term and one that seldom applies -- I certainly don't think it does on WDW hotel view upcharges -- total leisure activity, not at all a necessity, etc., etc. But we do agree on this: I don't feel bad for the bunny. The bunny has the internet for research and free will!

That term aside, I get what you're saying. But again, they are NOT "overpricing" if they have solid occupancy, etc. I'd be curious what the blended price paid is. But given their expansion and them continuing this pricing scheme, seems odd to conclude that it isn't working for them -- i.e. enough people aren't perfectly fine paying that upcharge.

Without their data, impossible to tell if they're getting into dicey territory here. Their behavior suggests that they don't think they are.

You being a card carrying member of the American Capitlaist Association (ACA) you seem to think that anything that rejects a disney price is "silly". But I do give examples...and that's how this debate thing goes.

you seem to be defending all things disney under the guise of "capitalism". And sometimes that's correct...sometimes it's a coverup for mistakes they are making.

They have overpriced their rooms...most notably on the high end. The cracks are there and we've discussed them for years. The window charges add to that problem. I have seen it myself. You can't charge someone $760 for a room at the Grand when they are used to pay $600 at a four seasons and give them the same service you get at port orleans. But that is exactly what disney does...hence terminology changes like "club level". They are gutting deluxes for timeshares...some reasons are obvious...but the 50% occupancy (reported) behind wilderness lodge is a way bigger deal. If it's happening there at $350 and happening at the poly at $500...it's happening everywhere.

Just convert it all to dvc...get it over with. And then views won't be tied to money anymore and I won't have to get dizzy on this debate.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You being a card carrying member of the American Capitlaist Association (ACA) you seem to think that anything that rejects a disney price is "silly". But I do give examples...and that's how this debate thing goes.

you seem to be defending all things disney under the guise of "capitalism". And sometimes that's correct...sometimes it's a coverup for mistakes they are making.

They have overpriced their rooms...most notably on the high end. The cracks are there and we've discussed them for years. The window charges add to that problem. I have seen it myself. You can't charge someone $760 for a room at the Grand when they are used to pay $600 at a four seasons and give them the same service you get at port orleans. But that is exactly what disney does...hence terminology changes like "club level". They are gutting deluxes for timeshares...some reasons are obvious...but the 50% occupancy (reported) behind wilderness lodge is a way bigger deal. If it's happening there at $350 and happening at the poly at $500...it's happening everywhere.

Just convert it all to dvc...get it over with. And then views won't be tied to money anymore and I won't have to get dizzy on this debate.

I think this is overcomplicating things. If people aren't willing to pay, prices will be cut. If they are willing to pay, the "price is right". It really is that simple.

I'm not defending Disney as they need no defense for being a business.

What you're paying for in a Disney hotel is proximity to the parks. There is an upcharge on that over a comparable room is most other places. I think that's really simple.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think this is overcomplicating things. If people aren't willing to pay, prices will be cut. If they are willing to pay, the "price is right". It really is that simple.

I'm not defending Disney as they need no defense for being a business.

What you're paying for in a Disney hotel is proximity to the parks. There is an upcharge on that over a comparable room is most other places. I think that's really simple.

I agree...and windows don't change proximity to the parks...agree?

It's not "overcomplicated"...it's complicated.

The business model matters...it always did. The more they squeeze the middlers upward and price them out...the more it's gonna suck for those of us left. And the worse it's gonna be for Disney's business. I'd like it to be around for awhile.

 

[Planogirl]

Proximity to parks while onsite isn't always that great. We once stayed at a nice place in Kissimmee just outside an entrance into WDW. It turned out to be pretty close to a few of the Disney parks which I can't say for all of the Disney resorts. Of course we had to drive which kept us off the buses. Or the gondolas soon. It really is quite subjective.

Will it really be the roof top restaurant and gondolas that Disney will use to sell the new DVC? Isn't all of that available to the regular CBR visitor and with a little more trouble to those who stay at Pop?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Proximity to parks while onsite isn't always that great. We once stayed at a nice place in Kissimmee just outside an entrance into WDW. It turned out to be pretty close to a few of the Disney parks which I can't say for all of the Disney resorts. Of course we had to drive which kept us off the buses. Or the gondolas soon. It really is quite subjective.

Will it really be the roof top restaurant and gondolas that Disney will use to sell the new DVC? Isn't all of that available to the regular CBR visitor and with a little more trouble to those who stay at Pop?

Yes...that's the $10,000 question.

 

[Madonna3]

I would die, and not from shock, but from laughter, if they made DDR an exclusive DVC resort. Want to get off at CBR villas from the Gondola? Your membership card, please. Want to eat at the restaurant? Your membership card, please. Want to shop at the resort? Your membership card, please. Want to use the amenities (spa, recreation, etc)? Your membership card, please (read: go to CBR cause that's where they are anyway or I predict some of them will be. I think DDR might incorporate a work out room and spa for its exclusive use).

The new exclusive only DVC events "sell out" like hot cakes. I know they tried to make BLT exclusive to DVC members staying at the resort and the opened up the roof top lounge to DVC members in general, but there's millions of people out there, who like me, don't like to be told "no" and will buy points just so they can have access to CBR Villas.

 

[jade1]

Not talking "some DVC places" as some do not really have an obvious better view.

But do you recommend that at all DVC, WDW hotels and ocean hotels etc?

Or should street view, dumpster views etc be cheaper or fewer points than ocean views, MK views etc?

I think I've been clear: once you gain access to the facilities at the hotel, the view is kinda moot.

I think the views have a value...they're just overpriced.

Finally admitted it. Thanks. All I was asking.

So now it's just the price. But admitting a view indeed has value, it simply if an individual choice to save money/points and forgo the better view or not.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Finally admitted it. Thanks. All I was asking.

So now it's just the price. But admitting a view indeed has value, it simply if an individual choice to save money/points and forgo the better view or not.

For me...the view has little value...to be fair. That's why it's moot in my opninon.

I can see the view having an assigned price though...correct.

For instance...I have a "view" at the red and white facade next year as it currently stands. I'd rather have the points...but I won't worry about them once I get there nor handcuff myself to the balcony when I get there to make sure I see the pretty vertical dynamite boomers...

...now the electric water pageant...on the other hand....

 

[jade1]

For me...the view has little value...to be fair. That's why it's moot in my opninon.

I can see the view having an assigned price though...correct.

Couldn't have just said that 3 pages ago?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I agree...and windows don't change proximity to the parks...agree?

It's not "overcomplicated"...it's complicated.

The business model matters...it always did. The more they squeeze the middlers upward and price them out...the more it's gonna suck for those of us left. And the worse it's gonna be for Disney's business. I'd like it to be around for awhile.

Proximity to parks is what makes these Disney hotels more expensive than comparable rooms in many others places. This DOES NOT preclude an upcharge for views, which I thought we agreed is standard in the industry and something for which WDW-goers appear clearly willing to pay.

Of course business model matters!!! My point is that THEY don't appear to think they're nearing any tipping point based upon their actions. Without access to their data, none of us can know if they're getting close. Time will tell.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I would die, and not from shock, but from laughter, if they made DDR an exclusive DVC resort. Want to get off at CBR villas from the Gondola? Your membership card, please. Want to eat at the restaurant? Your membership card, please. Want to shop at the resort? Your membership card, please. Want to use the amenities (spa, recreation, etc)? Your membership card, please (read: go to CBR cause that's where they are anyway or I predict some of them will be. I think DDR might incorporate a work out room and spa for its exclusive use).

The new exclusive only DVC events "sell out" like hot cakes. I know they tried to make BLT exclusive to DVC members staying at the resort and the opened up the roof top lounge to DVC members in general, but there's millions of people out there, who like me, don't like to be told "no" and will buy points just so they can have access to CBR Villas.

Who said exclusive in the sense that no one else is welcome to the restaurant or gondolas?

If you're referring to anything I've said, my thinking is a "new DVC animal" with more amenities onsite that other DVC's that are connected to deluxe resorts. Seems like they would/should/could need that in order to get top $$.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Proximity to parks is what makes these Disney hotels more expensive than comparable rooms in many others places. This DOES NOT preclude an upcharge for views, which I thought we agreed is standard in the industry and something for which WDW-goers appear clearly willing to pay.

Of course business model matters!!! My point is that THEY don't appear to think they're nearing any tipping point based upon their actions. Without access to their data, none of us can know if they're getting close. Time will tell.

I think there are many indications that they don't publicize that show things are aren't "great" for their hotel business as they make out in the quarterly call.

I used this example before. One year ago this week (the last time the family went...which is also telling)...I had a poly room for $252.53 a night with tax...which was 52% of the rack standard rate. The "lagoon view" was about $40 more a night.

So it all depends on "tip"...does shaky count or do you have to be ejected off the teeter totter and declare bankruptcy?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Who said exclusive in the sense that no one else is welcome to the restaurant or gondolas?

If you're referring to anything I've said, my thinking is a "new DVC animal" with more amenities onsite that other DVC's that are connected to deluxe resorts. Seems like they would/should/could need that in order to get top $$.

I like the idea as a social experiment...

A true "exclusive" compound.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Couldn't have just said that 3 pages ago?

And you could occasionally dispute a price disney serves to you. better consumers

 

[jade1]

Proximity to parks is what makes these Disney hotels more expensive than comparable rooms in many others places. This DOES NOT preclude an upcharge for views, which I thought we agreed is standard in the industry and something for which WDW-goers appear clearly willing to pay.

Agreed. And whether some like it or not, it is about choices. Grown adults know what they want and can afford, at least I hope they do. And if not, that's their own fault-not Disney's, and a brief refresher course in Elementary School is in order.

Disney offers discounts for inferior views (Take the offered discount if you want just like at a beach hotel), points and/or cash. Many guests choose that. They also offer Value, Mod and Deluxe pricing-all daily choices guests make. Also DVC program.

Other's consider the view as part of the "theme/decor". We sit on out BLT balcony for hours, and having the Castle in view as we sit in our living room, and even on our Master Bed also gives us the escape/reality of being where we want to be-WDW, not the real world.

But if we wanted to save points or cash, we would indeed forgo the better view, like every single guest in those rooms today did.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think there are many indications that they don't publicize that show things are aren't "great" for their hotel business as they make out in the quarterly call.

I used this example before. One year ago this week (the last time the family went...which is also telling)...I had a poly room for $252.53 a night with tax...which was 52% of the rack standard rate. The "lagoon view" was about $40 more a night.

So it all depends on "tip"...does shaky count or do you have to be ejected off the teeter totter and declare bankruptcy?

Again -- I get what you're saying in theory, and maybe they're getting close. Your one data point is clearly not dispositive.

And my own experience in hotels tells me that rooms at all hotels are discounted -- sometimes heavily -- all the time.

What matters is how that all nets out at the end of the year.

And we can't know what that picture looks like unless someone wants to share current propriety info with us here.

 

[jade1]

And you could occasionally dispute a price disney serves to you. better consumers

Oh I do. I now stay at POLY and GFV (and soon DRR) for under $100 in dues.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh I do. I now stay at POLY and GFV (and soon DRR) for under $100 in dues.

Who paid the $40,000 in contracts up front?

 

[jade1]

Who paid the $40,000 in contracts up front?

Ahh, the ones worth $80,000 now?