Now they're going after Halloween

[sam_gordon]

Tyranny of the minority.

I'll ask again... so the majority should rule?

ETA: Other than this being a "tradition", do you have any other specific reason why a school NEEDS a Halloween celebration?

 

[Hikergirl]

It seems to me some people are just looking to be offended by anyone who dares to point out that things should not be banned or shut down based solely on vague, anonymous claims (which are neither "sound" or "rational") stating said things are somehow "offensive."

I think most people just think it is ridiculous to get so worked up about a couple schools deciding not to celebrate the holiday Halloween.

 

[Suger Mag]

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What you are missing is the fact there is a difference between not "celebrating" Halloween vs. intentionally replacing it with concocted PC holiday "celebrations" that also take up school time.

Fortunately, Disney hasn't fallen into that trap (where can I get tickets to Mickey's not so scary orange and black day?) and the articles I posted imply many other people in MA didn't miss that fact and are not happy with the "re-label Halloween" initiatives. That's not surprising in a region where Celtic ancestry has deep roots and people generally have very strong reactions when bureaucrats attempt to mess around with long held traditions.

no I am not missing anything. Schools do not have to celebrate Halloween. Halloween involves getting dressed up and trick or treating AT NIGHT. If you are a Pagan or a Wiccan, then Halloween is an ACTUAL holiday. Otherwise it is a tradition and a candy grab.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think most people just think it is ridiculous to get so worked up about a couple schools deciding not to celebrate the holiday Halloween.

ONE school. The other is having a Halloween party after school. Apparently, that's not good enough and will traumatize the kids if they don't have a costume parade during school hours.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think most people just think it is ridiculous to get so worked up about a couple schools deciding not to celebrate the holiday Halloween.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Also, the school in the first article specifically mentions the parade being out of the ordinary for a school day and difficult for many students. Now I've been around these boards long enough to recognize that could very well be a reference to students with different educational needs. Personally I'd feel like a real jerk if I went on a tirade about tyranny and a war on Halloween and it turned out the whole thing was about making things less stressful for students with different needs.

 

[Magpie]

As others have pointed out, many schools set aside dates for other non--curriculum events (such as field days), so the whole "eating up classroom time" narrative you and several people have touched on is with all due respect flawed. This change was not made to open more class time.

I didn't say they were. My point was they apparently don't see the need to re-label the holiday to protect the supposed extensive universe of children and parents who supposedly find Halloween to be offensive or not "inclusive" enough.

If said universe was anything more than a tiny, tiny, tiny minority, you can bet in a heartbeat Disney would immediately go down the "Fall Festival/Black and Orange/other-ridiculous-relabeling-of-Halloween" path. The fact they haven't done that brings things right back to where I said they were:

Tyranny of the minority.

That "narrative" is flawed on both sides of the argument. A Halloween parade may not detract from learning, but at the same time no one needs a Halloween parade during school hours, either.

School time can be spent any way the school chooses. It would be tyranny indeed, if we insisted that every school had to have a Halloween Parade. (Especially since most don't.)

Also, show me where they're "re-labeling" the holiday? It's still Halloween, as evidenced by the Halloween party the school is hosting after classes.

One parade, in one school. I really don't think they're doing this to protect anyone. I suspect in this particular school the parade has become a hassle and they don't see the point of continuing with it. I'll bet it was a headache for the teachers every year - like herding costumed cats around the perimeter of a football field. And some costumes get wrecked. And some kids fight. And there's the inevitable tears...

And even if it was an attempt to make the school an accommodating, welcoming and inclusive place for all students... how is THAT "tyranny"? It's just a parade! Saying "tyranny of the minority" is like shouting, "I don't care about your feelings or opinions, we've always done it this way and we always will and to heck with you!"

I'm sure the kids will have just as much fun at the Halloween party.

 

[Magpie]

I think most people just think it is ridiculous to get so worked up about a couple schools deciding not to celebrate the holiday Halloween.

Plus, they're actually still celebrating it.

 

[Hikergirl]

Yeah, I totally agree.

Also, the school in the first article specifically mentions the parade being out of the ordinary for a school day and difficult for many students. Now I've been around these boards long enough to recognize that could very well be a reference to students with different educational needs. Personally I'd feel like a real jerk if I went on a tirade about tyranny and a war on Halloween and it turned out the whole thing was about making things less stressful for students with different needs.

I'd feel like a jerk if I went on a tirade about tyranny of the minority when talking about a school's decision to do something that included EVERYONE instead of just some.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'd feel like a jerk if I went on a tirade about tyranny of the minority when talking about a school's decision to do something that included EVERYONE instead of just some.

Yeah me too. Unfortunately lots of people wouldn't .
I really wouldn't be surprised if the parade was just a hassle so they got rid of it and used the doing something more inclusive lines because it sounds bettern than saying the parade was a pita so we don't want to do it.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

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no I am not missing anything. Schools do not have to celebrate Halloween. Halloween involves getting dressed up and trick or treating AT NIGHT. If you are a Pagan or a Wiccan, then Halloween is an ACTUAL holiday. Otherwise it is a tradition and a candy grab.

Halloween actually has its roots in Christianity, not that it matters. People should celebrate whtever they feel compelled to celebrate

 

[Mizzoufan]

People would be so bored if they have nothing to complain about.

 

[IAHFTPT]

I think someone really misses the debate board.

Or, to put it another way, every time I hand out candy many kids are happy.

 

[MIGrandma]

We had Halloween parties (and Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter ones) when I went to elementary school.

They had the same parties when my kids went to elementary school, and they still do as I have grands in elementary school.

I see no reason to not have them. Just as I see no reason to change Columbus Day but that's a whole other topic.

 

[RedAngie]

I don't recall my daughters' elementary schools ever having a dress up day for Halloween. They may have had parties, but it wasn't in costume.

In my Catholic grammar school, the only costumes permitted were those of saints. Now other than perhaps St. Patrick, who the heck knows what a saint is suppose to dress like? Everybody just wore their parents' bathrobes, and the girls also wore a scarf on their heads.

I likely would have been expelled if I had shown up in my sexy nun's costume.

 

[Suger Mag]

Halloween actually has its roots in Christianity, not that it matters. People should celebrate whtever they feel compelled to celebrate

Actually ... not that it matters... but the Gaelic Samhein predates the Christian All Hallows Eve... and the Roman festivals of Pomonia and Parentalia (which are also thought to have contributed to Halloween) even predate Samhein. I am a scientist, but my husband is a classics major and ancient history buff.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Actually ... not that it matters... but the Gaelic Samhein predates the Christian All Hallows Eve... and the Roman festivals of Pomonia and Parentalia (which are also thought to have contributed to Halloween) even predate Samhein. I am a scientist, but my husband is a classics major and ancient history buff.

There is too much to go into here about the origins and why Samhein probably wasn't Oct. 31, and how All Saints' day / All Hallows Eve is more closely related to our modern Halloween traditions, but my point was that Pagans and Wiccans (by the way, Wicca is a fairly new religion, much newer than Christianity) are not the only belief systems to have a holiday on Halloween.

 

[wonder whisper]

The lessons were about the Bible. After all, the majority was "for" it.

How do you know the "majority" approved of a religious element being thrown into a public school curriculum? From the way you described it, the story sounds like either some school administrator was completely ignorant of what some external party planned to do with the "flight class", or worse was a rogue religious nut who was in cahoots with the "flight instructor". Short of more details and context, you are in no position to state that religion being improperly thrown into the session you described was approved by anyone, much less a majority.

In our town there are four elementary schools. The one my kids went to was the only one to ban the Halloween costume and party. This was due to the personal beliefs of the principal at the time. It was disappointing for my kids, but we sure did celebrate on our own.

Due to the beliefs of the principal is the key point. "At the time" suggests this person didn't last. One wonders why......

Please, please, PLEASE explain what emotional impact ending this tradition will have. No one is stopping the kids from dressing up, trick or treating, going to haunted houses, parties, whatever. In fact, THE SCHOOL IS HOSTING A PARTY AFTER HOURS! So how exactly will this affect kids emotionally?

The first article I posted specifically quoted one local resident (a grandparent who was familiar with the long held school tradition of a Halloween parade) being quite upset about the fact they would not have the opportunity to see their grandchildren experience something they had at that age. And that soundbite sample is definitely representative of the sentiments of many, many more people. But now I guess I will now be told that doesn't qualify as being emotional enough and that keeping some taxpayer supported "educational administrator" pleased with themselves is clearly more important.

 

[sailorstitch]

When I was in elementary school only K-2nd grade could dress up and participate in the parade. Apparently, 3rd graders are "too old" to be dressing up in costumes. (Or at least that's what I was told.) 3rd-5th grades still had in class parties and were given candy.

There was one girl in my grade that wasn't allowed to participate in most of the classroom holiday parties because of her family's beliefs. My school didn't have an alterative for these kids so she had sit out in the hallway like she was being punished. I felt so bad for her. Should all the parties be canceled because of that one girl? No! Should there be an alternate fun activity for kids like her? Yes!

When I was in high school, the seniors were allowed to wear costumes to school on Halloween. It was one of the "senior perks". We didn't get Senior Prank Day or Senior Ditch Day, but we did get Halloween.

 

[Hikergirl]

How do you know the "majority" approved of a religious element being thrown into a public school curriculum? From the way you described it, the story sounds like either some school administrator was completely ignorant of what some external party planned to do with the "flight class", or worse was a rogue religious nut who was in cahoots with the "flight instructor". Short of more details and context, you are in no position to state that religion being improperly thrown into the session you described was approved by anyone, much less a majority.



Due to the beliefs of the principal is the key point. "At the time" suggests this person didn't last. One wonders why......




The first article I posted specifically quoted one local resident (a grandparent who was familiar with the long held school tradition of a Halloween parade) being quite upset about the fact they would not have the opportunity to see their grandchildren experience something they had at that age. And that soundbite sample is definitely representative of the sentiments of many, many more people. But now I guess I will now be told that doesn't qualify as being emotional enough and that keeping some taxpayer supported "educational administrator" pleased with themselves is clearly more important.

Times are changing, Grandma needs to learn to roll with it.

 

[Suger Mag]

There is too much to go into here about the origins and why Samhein probably wasn't Oct. 31, and how All Saints' day / All Hallows Eve is more closely related to our modern Halloween traditions, but my point was that Pagans and Wiccans (by the way, Wicca is a fairly new religion, much newer than Christianity) are not the only belief systems to have a holiday on Halloween.

Of course whomever wants to celebrate a holiday should do so. I never claimed otherwise. I also never said Samhein was Oct 31, it was at the end of summer to mark the harvest ... and BTW...the origins of All Saints Day was originally May 13 when Pope Boniface started by consecrating the Parthenon... and then later it was named All Saints Day by Pope Urban... and then finally Pope Gregory IV moved it to Nov 1.

Many ancient holidays were absorbed and renamed by Christianity. Humans have been around a lot longer than 2017 years LOL