Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[The Pho]

But most people don't want to have to get up/be at a computer at 7am EST (or simply aren't available) every single day for 5, 6, 7, ...14+ days in a row. How many people on these boards complain about how complicated WDW planning is? Or comment about how complicated other people think WDW planning is? I'm also sure paid WDW planners wouldn't appreciate only being able to book FP+ for clients one day at a time. Allowing onsite guests to make ADRs and FP+ for multiple days at once simplifies the planning process.

There is no real reason that Disney couldn’t change that booking time if they wanted. So that problem has a very easy solution.

I'm also using the parameter that the same amount of people are riding the attraction.

I understand what you’re trying to say. And I agree with your concept, but this that I quoted is the problem with your argument. Fastpass+ changed the dynamics of how people go about doing rides, without it, the numbers going to each individual attraction change. Fastpass promotes the rides and shows that would be overlooked by many. Assuming the numbers are the same is unrealistic. Less popular rides/shows drew the crowds away from the headliners.

 

[Sarah1024]

I would encourage people to keep trying. I recently booked FPs for 2 different families, both only going to the parks for 3 or 4 days. I was able to secure every ride they wanted (including FoP, SDD, SDMT and more) for both families and had many choices in times for both. It doesn't always work out but I'm finding FoP easier to get now then I did 18 months ago.

Last March I was able to get FOP FP's around 30 days just by constantly refreshing every day and being crazy about checking. If you really want to, you can probably find one and not be picky about what day you go.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

There is no real reason that Disney couldn’t change that booking time if they wanted. So that problem has a very easy solution.


I understand what you’re trying to say. And I agree with your concept, but this that I quoted is the problem with your argument. Fastpass+ changed the dynamics of how people go about doing rides, without it, the numbers going to each individual attraction change. Fastpass promotes the rides and shows that would be overlooked by many. Assuming the numbers are the same is unrealistic.

But no matter when they change the booking time to, it will always be at an inconvenient time for guests since WDW draws visitors from all over the world. Change it to noon EST and most people in the USA are at work, they're sleeping in Australia,... It's MUCH easier to be inconvenienced (made to get up in the middle of the night, take a few minute break from work, etc) one time than multiple days in a row.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

Exactly. Day by day FP+ booking sounds terrible - who has the time to do that? I have to be at work at 7am, so I take my ADR and FP+ days off just to make sure I can do them.

Were lucky in that we live in the CST so 7 am EST isn't that crazy early (or late) and it's also not in the middle of the work day. And I stay at home and have a fairly open schedule. If we relied on DH to book everything, we'd be SOL. Even at that, I wouldn't want to have to book day-by-day.

 

[Grumpy6264]

I don't think that I am coming across correctly. I am not saying that Disney needs to be "fair" to everyone. If that was the case, rooms would be cheap and it would cost almost nothing to get into the park.

The fact though is that obtaining prime fast passes for the first few days of a trip is inherently more difficult (not impossible), for everyone, than at the end of the trip. It is just a function of being able to make them for an entire reservation all at once. One way to ease that somewhat would be to only allow the making of FPs to a day at a time. But as has been pointed out above, that has a big negative impact on those from the west coast who would have to get up extremely early each day, and that isn't good either.

It would be nice if they could figure out a way to give benefits to those staying onsite without having a negative impact on others.

As far as the Ferrari goes, living in Wisconsin, I would have the three days between the end of winter and the beginning of the next winter to drive it. Oh well.

 

[Grumpy6264]

Exactly. Day by day FP+ booking sounds terrible - who has the time to do that? I have to be at work at 7am, so I take my ADR and FP+ days off just to make sure I can do them.

I really don't like planning that far ahead for dining or FP+ either, but it is what it is. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

 

[Bobb_o]

My post I referenced is actually to show from the standby rider's perspective, for an individual ride, they will wait exactly the same amount of time, if the bold part of your post is true. Copying from my other post, https://www.disboards.com/threads/o...ormation-thread.3727093/page-42#post-60385611, (no matter the capacity or % of riders assigned to standby you get the fact that the wait time will be the same not an average view).

While it slows the standby line it hasn’t increased wait times in the standby line by its very nature. Yes it increases the capacity of the standby line but by removing the capacity of the of the FastPass. If those people that were in FastPass move to standby the standby wait time should be the same as shown below:

So consider this ride that has a 100 rider per hour capacity.

Under FastPass
1) 90 people are assigned to the FastPass line for each hour
2) There is X people in standby line with an X/10 hour wait.

Remove FastPass
1) Now you have to add 90*X/10 people to the standby line
2) Resulting in X+90*X/10 people in the standby line which simplified to 10*X people in the line.
3) Resulting in the wait time of 10*X/100, which simplified to X/10 same as without FastPass

So under the assumption everyone in the FastPass rides the ride then the wait time won’t drop.
​

The part in bold red is predicate on the very fact the person standing in Standby gets in the line before those that would have waiting in FP+. What if the FP+ inclined people get in the standby first, which they could? While I agree someone could join the line at an opportune time that doesn't show it is because of the lack of FP+ that did this. It is simply saying they joined when the line had less of a wait. They can do this now with FP+ existing, such as rope drop or park closing. Also Disney doesn't drain an entire FP line before allowing those in the standby line to enter. They keep a ratio of what many on this board to believe is 90% FP and 10% standby (only when there is people waiting in the FP line, if no one is in FP the standby line gets full capacity, which happens on the smaller rides).

I can't explain what I'm trying to convey. All I know is that standby riders were waiting longer after FP+ was implemented in 2014. From 2013 to 2104 AK attendance went up 2% yet Dinosaur's median wait jumped 100% from 15 minutes to 30 minutes and peak wait jumped 45% from 25 to 45. Same thing happened with Kilimanjaro Safaris as median time went up 45% from 25 to 45 and peak went up 100% from 35 to 75.

Based on that I would expect if rides were losing FP+ riders their standby riders would wait less. There are probably plenty of variables I don't know which affect it but I still am going to base my opinion on what happened from 2013-2014.

 

[The Pho]

But no matter when they change the booking time to, it will always be at an inconvenient time for guests since WDW draws visitors from all over the world. Change it to noon EST and most people in the USA are at work, they're sleeping in Australia,... It's MUCH easier to be inconvenienced (made to get up in the middle of the night, take a few minute break from work, etc) one time than multiple days in a row.

Assuming they do one large batch booking opening time, sure people will be left out, but they don’t have to do that either. Still the difficulty to get fastpasses is greatly exaggerated. I do mine no further ahead than the night before and get all the ones I want.

 

[JETSDAD]

I can't explain what I'm trying to convey. All I know is that standby riders were waiting longer after FP+ was implemented in 2014. From 2013 to 2104 AK attendance went up 2% yet Dinosaur's median wait jumped 100% from 15 minutes to 30 minutes and peak wait jumped 45% from 25 to 45. Same thing happened with Kilimanjaro Safaris as median time went up 45% from 25 to 45 and peak went up 100% from 35 to 75.

Based on that I would expect if rides were losing FP+ riders their standby riders would wait less. There are probably plenty of variables I don't know which affect it but I still am going to base my opinion on what happened from 2013-2014.

https://touringplans.com/blog/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

 

[OpieDoodle]

I didn't read all of the comments on this thread but this REALLY worries me. We have a trip planned for next Jan and the fast pass system has been a life saver for me as we have three young children, so being able to plan for naps and such without paying extra is huge! Does anyone know when this may hypothetically start or when they'll announce it? We may need to reconsider our plans here....

 

[evlaina]

I really don't like planning that far ahead for dining or FP+ either, but it is what it is. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

I like planning far out (heck, I would pick my ADRs and FP the day I book my vacation if I could!), I just wouldn't want to do it every day for 10 days straight.

 

[crvetter]

I can't explain what I'm trying to convey. All I know is that standby riders were waiting longer after FP+ was implemented in 2014. From 2013 to 2104 AK attendance went up 2% yet Dinosaur's median wait jumped 100% from 15 minutes to 30 minutes and peak wait jumped 45% from 25 to 45. Same thing happened with Kilimanjaro Safaris as median time went up 45% from 25 to 45 and peak went up 100% from 35 to 75.

Based on that I would expect if rides were losing FP+ riders their standby riders would wait less. There are probably plenty of variables I don't know which affect it but I still am going to base my opinion on what happened from 2013-2014.

While this is true but this is because of what @The Pho stated in that it is directing people away from e-ticket rides to those. However, it doesn't by it's very nature increase standby times if you consider the same number of people riding the ride, which is the assumption you were going off of; in fact under this assumption the wait is identical. What will happen is the e-tickets rides will increase in wait times with paid FP or loss of FP because it will push people back to those rides from the "less" desirable rides because they won't value paying for non e-ticket FP nor value waiting in those lines.

As quoted below you see a broad drop in wait times at e-tickets and an increase in the less rides, which was exactly the intention of FP. It was to spread crowds. Start charging for it or take it away the crowds will cluster at the e-tickets like they did before. Also TP doesn't have quite the jumps you laid out for the non e-ticket rides. In fact they Kilimanjaro Safaris wait time change wasn't statistically significant.

https://touringplans.com/blog/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

Assuming they do one large batch booking opening time, sure people will be left out, but they don’t have to do that either. Still the difficulty to get fastpasses is greatly exaggerated. I do mine no further ahead than the night before and get all the ones I want.

How many people do you book for? Do you ride the "e-ticket" rides? Obv it's easier to book for one or two people than it is for larger parties (we have a family of 6, and often times have extended family with us).

Most people don't have the time (or desire) to refresh and constantly check back for FP+. (And may not even have a smart phone, so unless they're sitting at a computer all day...)

We also usually get the FP+ we want (but not necessarily at the times we want, esp for FOP). But we also consider a 7 night trip to be short (typical trips are bet 9 and 14 days). DH and I are going soon just the two of us for the first time in 15 years, for only 4 nights (the shortest trip we've ever done). We couldn't find FOP until day 4, at 4:45 pm. I know it must be frustrating for guests whose trips are normally short, but somebody is always going to be inconvenienced. For the purposes of easing overall planning, allowing onsite guests to book multiple days at once seems like the best option under the current system.

I have heard very good things about max pass (we'll experience it for the first time this summer). Even then, I've read unless you're in DCA by 10 am (or earlier), you won't get a FP for radiator springs racers - that obv selects for guests who are earlier risers and prefer mornings at the parks.

 

[Grumpy6264]

I like planning far out (heck, I would pick my ADRs and FP the day I book my vacation if I could!), I just wouldn't want to do it every day for 10 days straight.

I would love to make ADRs and FPs at the same time. In my opinion, it seems like it would be easier to coordinate the both of them. I know you can wait until 60 days out to make your ADRs, but then you have to possible deal with lack of inventory.

If they could just give each on-site guest an anytime ride on each attraction and leave fast passes for off-site guests, that would be a big benefit to staying on site. I know that is never going to happen, but I would be up for anything that makes it easier.

 

[Tiggerlover91]

Assuming they do one large batch booking opening time, sure people will be left out, but they don’t have to do that either. Still the difficulty to get fastpasses is greatly exaggerated. I do mine no further ahead than the night before and get all the ones I want.

Which rides are you getting by only booking the day before? And why do you think getting FPs is over exaggerated? Fact is....SDD and FoP are HARD to get. Mine Train doesn't seem as hard. At the 30 day mark, I can see some days wide open for FPs just right before the 30 and right after.

 

[The Pho]

Which rides are you getting by only booking the day before? And why do you think getting FPs is over exaggerated? Fact is....SDD and FoP are HARD to get. Mine Train doesn't seem as hard. At the 30 day mark, I can see some days wide open for FPs just right before the 30 and right after.

How many people do you book for? Do you ride the "e-ticket" rides? Obv it's easier to book for one or two people than it is for larger parties (we have a family of 6, and often times have extended family with us).

Most people don't have the time (or desire) to refresh and constantly check back for FP+. (And may not even have a smart phone, so unless they're sitting at a computer all day...)

We also usually get the FP+ we want (but not necessarily at the times we want, esp for FOP). But we also consider a 7 night trip to be short (typical trips are bet 9 and 14 days). DH and I are going soon just the two of us for the first time in 15 years, for only 4 nights (the shortest trip we've ever done). We couldn't find FOP until day 4, at 4:45 pm. I know it must be frustrating for guests whose trips are normally short, but somebody is always going to be inconvenienced. For the purposes of easing overall planning, allowing onsite guests to book multiple days at once seems like the best option under the current system.

I have heard very good things about max pass (we'll experience it for the first time this summer). Even then, I've read unless you're in DCA by 10 am (or earlier), you won't get a FP for radiator springs racers - that obv selects for guests who are earlier risers and prefer mornings at the parks.

Usually travel with 4, sometimes 2 or 6. And I’ll pretty much only grab a fastpass for only e tickets, but on my trips I do try to ride every single ride, so something like Peter Pan I’ll only do with a fastpass also, generally as a day of 4+ one. Flight of Passage, Slinky, and sometimes Mine Train are the only 3 that I’m not able to get with ease, but refreshing gets those without much trouble.
Day of/ night before has worked great for me reliably throughout the year (12 visits last year), that’s why I say it’s exaggerated. Because I book them short term, I’m not constantly refreshing either, I’m just trying to decide what we’ll do next and when one opens the plans can go around that. I go with a completely flexible schedule.

You’ll like MaxPass. It’s great and simple, especially when you pay attention to the times you can get new passes, I think I got about 28 fastpasses in a day last time I used it.

 

[SaharanTea]

I don't think that I am coming across correctly. I am not saying that Disney needs to be "fair" to everyone. If that was the case, rooms would be cheap and it would cost almost nothing to get into the park.

The fact though is that obtaining prime fast passes for the first few days of a trip is inherently more difficult (not impossible), for everyone, than at the end of the trip. It is just a function of being able to make them for an entire reservation all at once. One way to ease that somewhat would be to only allow the making of FPs to a day at a time. But as has been pointed out above, that has a big negative impact on those from the west coast who would have to get up extremely early each day, and that isn't good either.

It would be nice if they could figure out a way to give benefits to those staying onsite without having a negative impact on others.

As far as the Ferrari goes, living in Wisconsin, I would have the three days between the end of winter and the beginning of the next winter to drive it. Oh well.

Ride capacity is a finite commodity. There is no way to give more to one group without taking it away from another group. The only way to do that is to increase ride capacity (build more rides), limit the number of guests (increase prices), or increase park hours.

Building more rides to keep up with attendance would be popular with everyone outside of perhaps Disney executives. Increasing park hours would be the same, as it would spread crowds among more hours of the day. Limiting the number of guests is controversial, but you see it quite often mentioned in the form of increasing prices.

 

[Airb330]

https://touringplans.com/blog/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

Touring Plans' data is typically incomplete compared to what Disney knows or even EasyWDW's analyses IMO. Regardless of my opinion on the validity of the data, it's now 5 years old and is outdated.

I think most of us would come to the conclusion that in 2019, FP+ has increased wait times for most rides, especially rides like Pirates and Haunted Mansion (which was even seen in the 2014 post).

 

[Tink_83]

https://touringplans.com/blog/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

That’s interesting because some of my complaints about wait time are with the rides that have been negatively impacted (HM, PoC, JC, for example) maybe Disney should use their own analysis and on rides where it has increased wait times do away with it. Just a thought based on that analysis alone.

 

[crvetter]

Touring Plans' data is typically incomplete compared to what Disney knows or even EasyWDW's analyses IMO. Regardless of my opinion on the validity of the data, it's now 5 years old and is outdated.

I think most of us would come to the conclusion that in 2019, FP+ has increased wait times for most rides, especially rides like Pirates and Haunted Mansion (which was even seen in the 2014 post).

Actually Touring Plan and easyWDW came to the exact similar conclusion on their studies, which was that FP+ has increased the wait times on secondary rides (to a marginal degree) and decreased them (again marginally) on primary rides. This only means that FP+ has moved people from waiting for primary rides instead to using that time to FP secondary rides. This was precisely Disney's intention with FP+. Disney wanted ride times to be more even across the park and to increase the use of under-utilized rides. The question is if Disney removed FP (or make it paid) will the reverse happen, secondary attractions decrease and those guests not riding them move to primary attractions? This is quite possibly true.

Though I must say easyWDW's analysis wasn't scientific (no probability tests on the significance of the data) but Touring Plan attempted to determine if their data had any statistical significance.