OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[Scifidiner]

But if they make things feel more inclusive who does it hurt?? If they’re just gestures & don’t matter then why do ppl fight so hard against the change?

Honestly your iron clad, fact based logic has certainly swayed me. I say lets remove everything that offends anyone. I suggest we tear down the Washington monument, I mean my God he OWNED slaves. Let's remove every founding father's monument, take them off money, remove their names from schools. It's past time we purge this nation of our racist history. Only then can we begin to move on and put 100% of our resources into righting injustice.

 

[DeniseJH]

1) the problems haven't been solved because it's easier to blame everyone else for your failures and focus on the past rather than teach personal responsibility.

2) Being offended won't kill you, however a errant 7.62 X 39 from a drive by will.

3) The "history" being taught now is so pathetic the past 2 generations have no understanding of who those statues are, and some one has to "educate"
them on why they are to be outraged.

1.) But, I thought those problems weren't being solved because of all the money being diverted to remove statues? Isn't that what you implied before? I'm pretty sure it was.


2.) No one has said that being offended will kill you. To you the issue stated was whether or not removing statues is good money spent, because other wise drive-bys can be stopped. And just for the record, I find both concerning, and both worthy of our attention.


3.) Do you have proof of students being educated to be outraged because of racism and slavery?

 

[Scifidiner]

1.) But, I thought those problems weren't being solved because of all the money being diverted to remove statues? Isn't that what you implied before? I'm pretty sure it was.


2.) No one has said that being offended will kill you. To you the issue stated was whether or not removing statues is good money spent, because other wise drive-bys can be stopped. And just for the record, I find both concerning, and both worthy of our attention.


3.) Do you have proof of students being educated to be outraged because of racism and slavery?

See my last post above, I'm all on board. Let's get to tearing down statues, monuments and changing money and school names. Yeah that'll fix it.

 

[DeniseJH]

Honestly your iron clad, fact based logic has certainly swayed me. I say lets remove everything that offends anyone. I suggest we tear down the Washington monument, I mean my God he OWNED slaves. Let's remove every founding father's monument, take them off money, remove their names from schools. It's past time we purge this nation of our racist history. Only then can we begin to move on and put 100% of our resources into righting injustice.

It's sad that you don't get it. We've discussed most of this already. Some of the examples you've given actually are history. Statues, on the other hand, are erected after the fact to celebrate the person. A statue is not history. It is not a part of history. It is an effigy to be revered. There is a difference.

 

[DeniseJH]

See my last post above, I'm all on board. Let's get to tearing down statues, monuments and changing money and school names. Yeah that'll fix it.

Ah yes, hyperbole - when a well thought out response just won't do.

 

[DeniseJH]

No, my point is that these gestures are hollow and ultimately will have little or no affect on very real problems. But this is a perfect example of how some people base decisions on logic and others on emotion.

Do you think an African American would think that these gestures are hollow? Or do you think they'd take them as a show of respect?

 

[Scifidiner]

Ah yes, hyperbole - when a well thought out response just won't do.

I answered you point by point, you simply refuse to acknowledge it. I understand this is an emotional issue for you, I'm approaching this from a more logical problem solving angle.

 

[lovemygoofy]

There's so much open hate and discrimination and violent acts going on right now in this country. I truly doubt those people give a damn if schools aren't considered equal or that ALL children aren't being treated and educated in the same manner. I'm going to guess they aren't big on passing the hat to raise money or pay more taxes or even care if someone dies in a drive by shooting. They are busy shooting up places of worship, igniting more violence in their online hate groups or interrupting something as simple as a book reading to yell about this being "their land."

 

[DeniseJH]

I answered you point by point, you simply refuse to acknowledge it. I understand this is an emotional issue for you, I'm approaching this from a more logical problem solving angle.

Really - so far you're only answers to my comments are to blame the money spent on removing statues for the fact that we still have drug issues, drive bys, etc.. Also to claim that students are being taught to be outraged by racism and/or slavery. And again, do you have proof of this? Oh, and to blame African Americans for how this country has treated them over the generations. Doesn't seem like any logical problem solving to me.

 

[Scifidiner]

Really - so far you're only answers to my comments are to blame the money spent on removing statues for the fact that we still have drug issues, drive bys, etc.. Also to claim that students are being taught to be outraged by racism and/or slavery. And again, do you have proof of this? Oh, and to blame African Americans for how this country has treated them over the generations. Doesn't seem like any logical problem solving to me.

Wrong, you really need to reread what I said. You really are becoming tedious misinterpreting what I said. The real danger to your approach is that you risk alienating people who would otherwise be on your side screaming racism everytime someone disagrees with you.

 

[CarolAnn856]

But yet it does, because there is a finite amount of money. We have people literally dying in the streets from drugs and crime and you're worried about a statue that may hurt someone's feelings. What I find amusing is because of the revisionist history being taught in failing public schools, it has to be pointed out that they should be offended and outraged. Isn't that the very definition of irony? Reminds me of someone painting a house that's on fire.

And there you go. When you know you can't defend your cause, racism in this case, you deflect. None of your other "points" hold water either. Sad.

 

[DeniseJH]

Wrong, you really need to reread what I said. You really are becoming tedious misinterpreting what I said. The real danger to your approach is that you risk alienating people who would otherwise be on your side screaming racism everytime someone disagrees with you.

I apologize, and stand corrected. I have more carefully reread your responses and now see the points that I had misinterpreted. #1 I believed was about African Americans in regard to their desire to have the statues removed, not as I see now that you intended, about the other problems you had spoke of. #3 I thought you were saying that teachers were wrongly, to you, teaching their students to be outraged. I see now that you were saying the kids are so poorly taught that if the issue is brought up they then have to be educated because they haven't been previously. Again, my apologies for that.

Although I do stand by my points about the financial issue regarding removing these statues, and that obviously I believe they should come down.


But I still would like an answer to this: Do you believe that to African Americans the removal of these statues is a hollow gesture, or do you think that they see it as a show of respect?

 

[Scifidiner]

I'm tedious? You haven't answered my questions: Do you have any proof that kids are being taught to be outraged by racism/slavery? Do you admit that your original posts about how the money used to remove statues (those that weren't covered by donations) is part of the reason problems such as drugs and drive-bys still exist in this country (Not very logical, by the way.)

And also, what CarolAnn856 said.

Dear God, that is NOT what I said. I said that wasting money on hollow gestures takes resources away from spending it on solving problems today.

I have teachers on both sides of my family and had two separate family members tell me of instances of a student and a family who were completely clueless about a local statue until they were told who and what they were.

Again, I have no vested interest in old statues, in fact I would whole heartedly support removal if I genuinely thought it would help. But calling me a racist because my approach is different is ultimately a weak argument and counterproductive.

 

[DeniseJH]

Dear God, that is NOT what I said. I said that wasting money on hollow gestures takes resources away from spending it on solving problems today.

I have teachers on both sides of my family and had two separate family members tell me of instances of a student and a family who were completely clueless about a local statue until they were told who and what they were.

Again, I have no vested interest in old statues, in fact I would whole heartedly support removal if I genuinely thought it would help. But calling me a racist because my approach is different is ultimately a weak argument and counterproductive.

That post has been edited out. Please see the edited version.

 

[Scifidiner]

And there you go. When you know you can't defend your cause, racism in this case, you deflect. None of your other "points" hold water either. Sad.

My cause? you really need to take a few minutes to read ALL my posts. Calling me a racist is a unimaginative and offensive. You have no idea what I do on a daily basis. Not one person that has an opposing view has offered even one real solution to the problems in the black community. Oh, other than simple platitudes and insulting placations.

 

[DeniseJH]

Dear God, that is NOT what I said. I said that wasting money on hollow gestures takes resources away from spending it on solving problems today.

I have teachers on both sides of my family and had two separate family members tell me of instances of a student and a family who were completely clueless about a local statue until they were told who and what they were.

Again, I have no vested interest in old statues, in fact I would whole heartedly support removal if I genuinely thought it would help. But calling me a racist because my approach is different is ultimately a weak argument and counterproductive.

I don't believe that it is a waste of money, or a hollow gesture, to insure that a large population of this country knows that they matter and that they are respected after how they have been treated. That is my opinion. I need to get back in the habit of saying that here.

 

[DeniseJH]

My cause? you really need to take a few minutes to read ALL my posts. Calling me a racist is a unimaginative and offensive. You have no idea what I do on a daily basis. Not one person that has an opposing view has offered even one real solution to the problems in the black community. Oh, other than simple platitudes and insulting placations.

I believe she, as well, misinterpreted your #1 above.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

View attachment 397566

I
I believe
I believe that
I believe that we
I BELIEVE THAT WE WON'T QUALIFY FOR WORLD CUP!!!!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Again, I have no vested interest in old statues, in fact I would whole heartedly support removal if I genuinely thought it would help. .

For someone uninterested, you sure are adamantly arguing against taking them down.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Really - so far you're only answers to my comments are to blame the money spent on removing statues for the fact that we still have drug issues, drive bys, etc.. Also to claim that students are being taught to be outraged by racism and/or slavery. And again, do you have proof of this? Oh, and to blame African Americans for how this country has treated them over the generations. Doesn't seem like any logical problem solving to me.

Don't you know every time a statue is removed, a drug user gets his syringe and a gangster gets his street sweeper?