Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

[Toonses]

Honestly, if I were looking to purchase DVC, I would wait for reflections. To me, Riviera has a lot of weird energy (for lack of a better description) around it. I also feel that it's way overpriced for the value of what you're getting. Those tower studios are just not worth it to me, especially when I can stay at BC in a bigger room for less, still have Skyliner access, and walk into EPCOT for dinner. I do like the fact that there are murphy beds instead of pull out couches, but again, the price negates the value when I can stay OOP for the same or less at BC/YC regular rooms, and get cleaning every day which we really like, and no, we're not messy people - we keep our house clean and neat. We just love not having to be the ones to take out the trash, make the beds, etc. It's a vacation, we like having the break from housework.

Another thing to note is that my Capital One card now has stays at the Riviera available for points. It's literally the ONLY Disney run resort available on either that card, or my Chase card. That seems like a signal of soft sales to me, but I could be wrong.

Another reason I'd personally wait for Reflections is that it's going to be in a proven area and nextdoor to WL and its associated DVC's, which also have a strong, proven track record. To me, this would indicate a safer purchase in terms of retaining value. I'm also a bit concerned about Skyliner efficiency once the Riviera station opens, since it has no side spur for the loading of ECV's and wheelchairs. This means that the Skyliner will have to stop more frequently for loading of guests that need a stopped vehicle. Given the reports of start and stopping now, I can only assume it's going to get significantly worse with the opening of Riv.

Now all that being said, I do acknowledge the positives like the beautiful room decor, and hey, whatever floats your boat if you're dying to own there. If you feel like it's going to be a great place for you and the price isn't a consideration for you, absolutely you should purchase it for yourself. I believe that people should purchase what they want if they have funds to do so, and should get enjoyment out those purchases irrespective of other people's opinions. This is simply my personal assessment - take it for what it's worth.

 

[Jenniebee]

Why do you think that there will be dozens of RIV resale contracts on the market in a year or two?

Because there are dozens of Poly, Aulani and CCV contracts up for resale at any given time. I do not think Riviera will be any different. Except I am guessing those contracts will sit and not turn over as quickly.

CCV was just being sold 2 years ago, and today there are nearly 40 contracts for sale on just one broker website. So it's just pretty likely that in 2 years there will be lots of Riviera contracts for sale. People sell all the time. New listings come up for resale literally every day.

 

[TexasChick123]

Honestly, if I were looking to purchase DVC, I would wait for reflections. To me, Riviera has a lot of weird energy (for lack of a better description) around it. I also feel that it's way overpriced for the value of what you're getting. Those tower studios are just not worth it to me, especially when I can stay at BC in a bigger room for less, still have Skyliner access, and walk into EPCOT for dinner. I do like the fact that there are murphy beds instead of pull out couches, but again, the price negates the value when I can stay OOP for the same or less at BC/YC regular rooms, and get cleaning every day which we really like, and no, we're not messy people - we keep our house clean and neat. We just love not having to be the ones to take out the trash, make the beds, etc. It's a vacation, we like having the break from housework.

Another thing to note is that my Capital One card now has stays at the Riviera available for points. It's literally the ONLY Disney run resort available on either that card, or my Chase card. That seems like a signal of soft sales to me, but I could be wrong.

Another reason I'd personally wait for Reflections is that it's going to be in a proven area and nextdoor to WL and its associated DVC's, which also have a strong, proven track record. To me, this would indicate a safer purchase in terms of retaining value. I'm also a bit concerned about Skyliner efficiency once the Riviera station opens, since it has no side spur for the loading of ECV's and wheelchairs. This means that the Skyliner will have to stop more frequently for loading of guests that need a stopped vehicle. Given the reports of start and stopping now, I can only assume it's going to get significantly worse with the opening of Riv.

Now all that being said, I do acknowledge the positives like the beautiful room decor, and hey, whatever floats your boat if you're dying to own there. If you feel like it's going to be a great place for you and the price isn't a consideration for you, absolutely you should purchase it for yourself. I believe that people should purchase what they want if they have funds to do so, and should get enjoyment out those purchases irrespective of other people's opinions. This is simply my personal assessment - take it for what it's worth.

And I have no interest in Reflections. It’s really a matter of personal preference. I do not like the FW/WL area as they feel cheap and motel(ish) to me, but that is my opinion and not a fact. I’m just as confused as to why anyone would ever own at any WL/FW area properties as you are to why anyone would own at Riviera. That’s why I think comments like this don’t help anyone out. We all have different preferences and opinions on what we like and don’t like. Just because I do or don’t like something doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. It’s all a matter of opinion. Waiting for Reflections probably doesn’t make sense if someone likes Riviera. They’re totally different properties. Most, but not all, who like one will have little to no interest in the other because they are so vastly different.

 

[Brianstl]

Context is everything - those 1,700 rooms amount to less than a 5% increase in total rooms at WDW. It shouldn't be that hard to absorb them, even if visitor growth slows.
As long as Disney gets a decent rate for their rooms, there should always be some kind of market for DVC in resale and rentals. Maybe not as robust as the current market but to assume it all goes to zero because of a 4%+ increase in rooms is a big leap.

In addition to the 1,700 rooms that Disney still has coming online, they added 545 rooms at Gran Destino recently.

Attendance at Disney’s US parks dropped 3% in their third quarter. That drop happened while US consumer spending increased 4.7% the same quarter. Last week Disney emailed me an offer for rooms at Coronado for a $150 a night for the week before Christmas. There is your context.

 

[Sanwich]

I want to say something like $20. I’ll have to admit the amount could have been a guess on his part or even just an effort to get us to buy now rather than later. All I can recall is that he quoted a specific dollar amount it would increase when they raise the price. Oh, and he wasn’t pushy on getting us to buy, which made his info more believable.

Thanks. This is pure guessing on my part, but I wonder if he was just quoting what the price would be without the current incentives (that will be expiring soon). Just as an example, 200 points would be about $14 per point more, if the offer expires and they don't offer any other incentive to replace it (though I doubt that would happen).

 

[Katie2]

175 point.

I believe that is the $140 point contract above. Jerry couldn't talk about it until after ROFR, but this past week when we were recording the next round of shows he indicated it had gone for $140 a point and had passed ROFR. (I don't think we mentioned it specifically on the show as we didn't record a show about Riviera this month.)

Wow...I am seriously at a loss for words! Purchases like this make us venting about the restrictions useless.This purchase, along with everyone else that purchases Riviera, validates Disney’s implementation of the restrictions. I guess the old adage rings true...vote with your money, not with your mouth!

 

[KStash]

Most, but not all, who like one will have little to no interest in the other because they are so vastly different.

Glad you added most, because there are some of us who love every resort and would own at them all if we could financially afford it.

I can’t see how buying a RIV resale contract at 160-170 a point (as listed on Fidelity) makes any sense. For 18-28$ per point more, you can buy direct and have access to all resorts. But then I thought 140 was too high as well.

 

[RivShore]

Honestly, if I were looking to purchase DVC, I would wait for reflections. To me, Riviera has a lot of weird energy (for lack of a better description) around it. I also feel that it's way overpriced for the value of what you're getting. Those tower studios are just not worth it to me, especially when I can stay at BC in a bigger room for less, still have Skyliner access, and walk into EPCOT for dinner. I do like the fact that there are murphy beds instead of pull out couches, but again, the price negates the value when I can stay OOP for the same or less at BC/YC regular rooms, and get cleaning every day which we really like, and no, we're not messy people - we keep our house clean and neat. We just love not having to be the ones to take out the trash, make the beds, etc. It's a vacation, we like having the break from housework.

Not sure what your referring to here - Just looking at studios, RIV's are significantly bigger than BC's, actually 2nd largest with only Poly being a bit larger. RIV one & two bedrooms are also significantly larger and the studios and 1 BR's sleep 5.

EDIT-Thanks for those pointing out the PP was talking about Tower studios, I missed that. Please disregard!

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks. This is pure guessing on my part, but I wonder if he was just quoting what the price would be without the current incentives (that will be expiring soon). Just as an example, 200 points would be about $14 per point more, if the offer expires and they don't offer any other incentive to replace it (though I doubt that would happen).

I’ll be checking with my guide this week for my situation and will post back any info he gives me about RIV price increase. He is out of office till Wednesday.

 

[Marionnette]

Not sure what your referring to here - Just looking at studios, RIV's are significantly bigger than BC's, actually 2nd largest with only Poly being a bit larger. RIV one & two bedrooms are also significantly larger and the studios and 1 BR's sleep 5. If you don't like the resort, that's fine and I love reading all the opinions here but there's no need to support opinions with false info.

Where are you finding the square footage for the RIV villas?

 

[Sandisw]

Not sure what your referring to here - Just looking at studios, RIV's are significantly bigger than BC's, actually 2nd largest with only Poly being a bit larger. RIV one & two bedrooms are also significantly larger and the studios and 1 BR's sleep 5. If you don't like the resort, that's fine and I love reading all the opinions here but there's no need to support opinions with false info.

I believe the poster was comparing a tower studio to a regular BCV studio. Not RIV regular studio to BCV studio.

 

[Madame]

Not sure what your referring to here - Just looking at studios, RIV's are significantly bigger than BC's, actually 2nd largest with only Poly being a bit larger. RIV one & two bedrooms are also significantly larger and the studios and 1 BR's sleep 5. If you don't like the resort, that's fine and I love reading all the opinions here but there's no need to support opinions with false info.

I read the size as referring to the tower studio.

 

[RivShore]

In addition to the 1,700 rooms that Disney still has coming online, they added 545 rooms at Gran Destino recently.

Attendance at Disney’s US parks dropped 3% in their third quarter. That drop happened while US consumer spending increased 4.7% the same quarter. Last week Disney emailed me an offer for rooms at Coronado for a $150 a night for the week before Christmas. There is your context.

The 1,700 room number they announced last year included the 545 at GD, so it's not in addition to it. It's a total of 1,700 over 4 years as announced in Oct. 2018.

Park attendance was down 3%, that is true, but you left out the more relevant statement from the Q3 report that room occupancy was actually up two percentage points to 88%. Also this from the earnings call - "So far this quarter (q4), domestic resort reservations are pacing up 4% compared to prior year, while booked rates are up 3%". So it looks like they are adding 4% capacity to meet the growth they actually see in the pipeline.

You are trying to paint an all doom and gloom picture from the addition of 1% capacity each year for 4 years. I don't see that small capacity increase cratering the resale market, you apparently do. Of course outside economic forces could do that at some point but that would happen with or without the new rooms.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Another thing to note is that my Capital One card now has stays at the Riviera available for points. It's literally the ONLY Disney run resort available on either that card, or my Chase card. That seems like a signal of soft sales to me, but I could be wrong.

You are likely wrong. This has happened with other new DVC resorts. Keep in mind that Disney controls ~70% of units there right now, having declared roughly 30%. So Disney offers discount and inventories to things like card points with that 70%. The incidence of this will go down as more declarations occur.

I don't think it's a sign of anything save that Disney wants to get butts in rooms they own. This isn't all that dissimilar to how for a while, you could book a Saratoga package via Costco.

 

[RivShore]

Where are you finding the square footage for the RIV villas?

Hi Marionnette. I found them at a few different sites. This one has some great charts with all resort villa info. (Hopefully the link is allowed.)

https://www.easywdw.com/forums/showthread.php?20457-DVC-Rooms-Charts-with-detailed-room-info

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks for that chart! I have all the books from Disney but don’t see the sizes!

 

[Soap_1984]

Honestly, if I were looking to purchase DVC, I would wait for reflections. To me, Riviera has a lot of weird energy (for lack of a better description) around it. I also feel that it's way overpriced for the value of what you're getting. Those tower studios are just not worth it to me, especially when I can stay at BC in a bigger room for less, still have Skyliner access, and walk into EPCOT for dinner. I do like the fact that there are murphy beds instead of pull out couches, but again, the price negates the value when I can stay OOP for the same or less at BC/YC regular rooms, and get cleaning every day which we really like, and no, we're not messy people - we keep our house clean and neat. We just love not having to be the ones to take out the trash, make the beds, etc. It's a vacation, we like having the break from housework.

Another thing to note is that my Capital One card now has stays at the Riviera available for points. It's literally the ONLY Disney run resort available on either that card, or my Chase card. That seems like a signal of soft sales to me, but I could be wrong.

Another reason I'd personally wait for Reflections is that it's going to be in a proven area and nextdoor to WL and its associated DVC's, which also have a strong, proven track record. To me, this would indicate a safer purchase in terms of retaining value. I'm also a bit concerned about Skyliner efficiency once the Riviera station opens, since it has no side spur for the loading of ECV's and wheelchairs. This means that the Skyliner will have to stop more frequently for loading of guests that need a stopped vehicle. Given the reports of start and stopping now, I can only assume it's going to get significantly worse with the opening of Riv.

Now all that being said, I do acknowledge the positives like the beautiful room decor, and hey, whatever floats your boat if you're dying to own there. If you feel like it's going to be a great place for you and the price isn't a consideration for you, absolutely you should purchase it for yourself. I believe that people should purchase what they want if they have funds to do so, and should get enjoyment out those purchases irrespective of other people's opinions. This is simply my personal assessment - take it for what it's worth.

While I agree with many of your points on riviera I am not sure reflections is going to be the answer. If anything I would expect that it will be priced even higher and perhaps with even more limitations.

 

[Brianstl]

The 1,700 room number they announced last year included the 545 at GD, so it's not in addition to it. It's a total of 1,700 over 4 years as announced in Oct. 2018.

I did not include GD in my count of rooms, but I meant to type 1,600 and not 1,700. You will have Riviera, Reflections, Cove and Galactic.

 

[RivShore]

I did not include GD in my count of rooms, but I meant to type 1,600 and not 1,700. You will have Riviera, Reflections, Cove and Galactic.

OK. I had assumed you were referring to this announcement...

“Walt Disney World is in the midst of our most significant expansion in the last two decades and the combined 1,700 new hotel rooms and proposed Disney Vacation Club villas we are building at four different resorts...” (Reflections, Riviera, Coronado, SW Hotel)

https://wdwnews.com/releases/disney...nature-inspired-mixed-use-resort-on-bay-lake/

 

[pineapplepalms]

From the design, the focus on luxury and the restaurant selection; I feel like Riviera’s target is childless millennial couples, empty nesters and retirees. It just feels like the least kid friendly of all the resorts to me.

I think everyone just has different preferences. We are technically an older millennial couple and we have young kids. We love the design of RIV and think it's well suited to our family. I much prefer the style and design of the rooms to BWV, even though we own at BWV as well and love it due to the location. There's a character breakfast that we have booked for upcoming stays, and a splash pad where we're planning to spend time with the kids. There's a lot to like there... just not everyone may like it. There are those who say that VGF is not kid-friendly and don't like it. But we also own VGF and absolutely love it.