Wait Staff Disappointment

[kaytieeldr]

I get to roll my eyes and suggest they, "Hand the bill to my accountant. She pays the bills. I just decide how much to tip." And wait for the nervous laughter.

That's almost as demeaning as pulling out one's full-on drill sergeant persona on a restaurant server (or anybody not under one's direct command.)

 

[jbehr12]

We are from outside the US too, and I think you may be on to something. I mean, they DO print on the receipt so you know what 15 (or 18) and 20% are, but, I think many people from outside the USA would a) consider tipping 1/5 more than the bill to be excessive or b) consider tipping to be a problematic gesture.

I worked at a PF Changs for years and there were quite a few patrons from other cultures. I can tell you with 100% certainly that only a small percentage of them have adopted our tipping practices. I can imagine it’s less for people who visit from abroad and aren’t even US Citizens.

 

[kylenne]

This is the type of attitude why I think every person should spend some time working at a full service restaurant.

I came in here to say this. Restaurant server, retail, and customer service are three jobs I feel like everyone should have. Folks would have an awful lot more empathy if that were the case.

 

[MomOTwins]

if tipping puts the meal above your budget then you can’t afford to eat there, or maybe need to shorten you stay yo less than 14 days (the most I have ever stayed at WDW is 5.

 

[cobright]

That's almost as demeaning as pulling out one's full-on drill sergeant persona on a restaurant server (or anybody not under one's direct command.)

No. Demeaning is assuming the man pays the bill. Cracking a joke to let the server know they made an error is a kindness.

Somehow, as a society, we have gotten to a place where pointing out another person's rudeness, however amiably, is regarded as worse than the rude behavior being called out. Ever watch British people react to someone cutting in line? You'll never see anyone harumph and tut tut to themselves quite so energetically.

We live in a society. We're all in this together. When someone is disrespectful I let them know and I give them the opportunity to correct it. And make no mistake, taking a credit card from a woman and returning it to her husband for a signature is disrespectful. The disrespect may not be intentional. It may be completely accidental. But if it's never corrected, it becomes normal.

 

[LizzyS]

I've never had bad service at Disney...but then again I make an effort to befriend our server.

Being friendly is often enough to get you decent service, I've found. I've worked in food and retail before and I'm *extra* pleasant because I know how some people treated me back in the day.

 

[LizzyS]

It may seem so, and if it were a rare and occasional occurrence I would be chill about it. But as often or not, my wife will hand the waiter the card, they leave to run it, come back with the card and the slip to sign ... and hand it to me.

It's one of those tings that at the individual level can be chalked up to chance, but when it is happening a majority of the time it simply has to indicate a structural bias.

I get to roll my eyes and suggest they, "Hand the bill to my accountant. She pays the bills. I just decide how much to tip." And wait for the nervous laughter.

That part about *you* deciding how much to tip is kinda gross, tbh. I wouldn't appreciate that comment personally.

I took my in-laws out for my stepfather-in-law's birthday this past weekend and the server handed him the bill for our dinner. I guess I should have been outraged.

 

[cobright]

A couple of observations...

I think many people from outside the USA would a) consider tipping 1/5 more than the bill to be excessive or b) consider tipping to be a problematic gesture.
...
Yes. I'm British too, and I happily tip for exceptional service at home, but, all of the things you say are right. I DO tip in USA, and generally, as they would expect, but I do find it incredibly costly to have to add so much more.

It's certainly problematic because in the UK although we tip there are no set rules of what percentage of the bill you tip and there is no expectation to do so anyway - it's a gesture to us Brits
...
I have to be honest, paying up to 20% or more as a tip really puts the cost of having a meal (especially in the parks/resorts) out of our reach when you're there for 14 nights (as we normally are) - that's a huge dent in your pocket and the fact that it's expected is quite a turn off.

In my experience, the American system of tipping is anathema to Brits. We have befriended the expat community at my where my wife works and they have a broad mix of Brits, Germans, Poles, and Serbians. Europeans in general boggle at tipping in the states but the Brits seem to really take exception.

And yet... When I go to England, food prices at comparable restaurants in comparable cities are easily 20% higher than in the states and total bills for a meal much more than that. Even leaving the higher rates of taxation out of it, menu prices are 20% higher for a dinner. And portion size is considerably smaller. I'm aware of the (generally well deserved) American portion size stereotypes, but that doesn't change the fact that even with a 20% tip, eating out is a better value here.

And here's the other thing. Service in UK casual restaurants is on average middling and frequently horrible. The only time I get service on par with the average American Waffle House in Berkshire is at places like the Woodspeen or L'Ortolan.

I couldn't agree more. I'm also very much against anywhere (in any country) that insists on automatically adding a gratuity to the bill.

That's exactly what happens at most places outside the US. The "tip" doesn't go away, it's added to the menu prices and Server wages are increased accordingly.

A few years ago a restaurant chain here, Joe's Crab Shack, went to a no-tipping model in 18 of its stores. It lasted less than a year. Customers hated it and the Servers hated it. Those locations nearly doubled their 100% turnover rate for wait staff.

 

[cobright]

That part about *you* deciding how much to tip is kinda gross, tbh. I wouldn't appreciate that comment personally.

I mean, I guess tone and body language don't translate to the typed comment well, but to be fair, a comment like that is really just an observation; something we both know. Whether a person appreciates it or not simply reflects their appreciation for reality. Generally, most people don't like to be criticized, however obliquely. People who take their job seriously should.

I took my in-laws out for my stepfather-in-law's birthday this past weekend and the server handed him the bill for our dinner. I guess I should have been outraged.

I tend to reserve outrage for situations that warrant it. It's been years since I was last outraged.

But to clarify... while I think the habit of bringing the bill to the man by default demonstrates a pretty deeply ingrained gender bias, it's not something I would comment on or really, by itself, hold against a server.

My complaint rises from the model case of when the bill is brought to the table (usually to me) and returned by my wife to the server with a credit card with her name on it, taken to the POS terminal, and returned with the sales slip and handed to me to be signed. That... without attaching any motive to it at all, is a behavior that needs to be corrected.

 

[kaytieeldr]

No. Demeaning is assuming the man pays the bill. Cracking a joke to let the server know they made an error is a kindness.

The utterer doesn't get to determine whether what they say is perceived as a joke by the person at* whom it is spoken. Then waiting for a "nervous laugh" response?

* yes, I mean "at".

 

[DrunkJam]

A couple of observations...




In my experience, the American system of tipping is anathema to Brits. We have befriended the expat community at my where my wife works and they have a broad mix of Brits, Germans, Poles, and Serbians. Europeans in general boggle at tipping in the states but the Brits seem to really take exception.

And yet... When I go to England, food prices at comparable restaurants in comparable cities are easily 20% higher than in the states and total bills for a meal much more than that. Even leaving the higher rates of taxation out of it, menu prices are 20% higher for a dinner. And portion size is considerably smaller. I'm aware of the (generally well deserved) American portion size stereotypes, but that doesn't change the fact that even with a 20% tip, eating out is a better value here.

And here's the other thing. Service in UK casual restaurants is on average middling and frequently horrible. The only time I get service on par with the average American Waffle House in Berkshire is at places like the Woodspeen or L'Ortolan.


That's exactly what happens at most places outside the US. The "tip" doesn't go away, it's added to the menu prices and Server wages are increased accordingly.

A few years ago a restaurant chain here, Joe's Crab Shack, went to a no-tipping model in 18 of its stores. It lasted less than a year. Customers hated it and the Servers hated it. Those locations nearly doubled their 100% turnover rate for wait staff.

Yes, I personally prefer having the actual cost of paying wait staff built in as part of the cost of the meal, rather than having them dependent on tipping that then becomes almost compulsory. it's fairer to all concerned.

I do actually agree that service is often better in the USA in my experience. I *have* had excellent service in the UK, and poor service in the USA, but, generally speaking, I would say service is better in the USA.

 

[cobright]

The utterer doesn't get to determine whether what they say is perceived as a joke by the person at* whom it is spoken. Then waiting for a "nervous laugh" response?

Of course not. What a ridiculous notion. But when one is critical of another's performance and has a stake in that person's performance, it is appropriate to communicate that criticism. And to take the sting out of that criticism, and convey that the matter is a small one but still important enough to call attention to, it is not uncommon to couch that criticism in humor. Of course, it's then the utterer's responsibility to convey the message as such using their choice of words as well as non-verbal language (proxemics, kinesics, paralanguage, haptics, etc.).

If the person at whom such a criticism is directed responds with a nervous laugh, then you know it was received as intended. If they respond with more concern than that, then you can move to alleviate that concern with additional messaging. If they are oblivious, then maybe you restate your concern more bluntly.

I wonder though if you see my criticism as a meanness because you don't agree with my complaint. Say, instead, that the server insisted on taking your table's order without writing it down (something I see too often) and has gotten your order wrong three times now. It's been sent back twice and now they're back and it's still wrong. Maybe the place is really busy, so you're sympathetic to the young person's situation. Do you just say nothing and pretend it's normal? Some people do just this. They never see it as appropriate to point out the failings of another, even when they are directly impacted by those failings.

Do you chastise him with a formal sounding complaint? I struggle to see how this will do more than add to the servers stress, but at least it acknowledges the elephant in the room ... I guess.

Personally, I might suppose out loud that "Third time's not always a charm." in such a away that my awareness of the busy and hectic nature of the evening's service is evident.

One can advocate for the quality of their service without being a boor about it.

 

[North of Mouse]

So sorry that you did not have a better time we have gone on 5 previous trips and the vast majority have been a great experience, The few that have not, well I am a retired Marine. I will cheerfully stand up in front of the waiter/waitress and dress them down as if they are not very bright 18 year old Privates. Haven't had to do it twice in a meal.

Wow, just wow! Just leave your 'marine' time out of your private life - civilians are not under your authority!
My husband served many years ago, also have many family members that did, and I don't know a one of them that tried to use their 'past authority' on others after they returned to civilian life!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Of course not. What a ridiculous notion. But when one is critical of another's performance and has a stake in that person's performance, it is appropriate to communicate that criticism.

"No, please give the (check, folder, receipt) to the person who's paying." No "joke" necessary.

And to take the sting out of that criticism, and convey that the matter is a small one but still important enough to call attention to, it is not uncommon to couch that criticism in humor.

Odds are, the person to whom the criticism is being addressed does not see any humor in it. Not to mention, the financial and/or employment status of anybody at the table is not of any concern to the server.

If the person at whom such a criticism is directed responds with a nervous laugh, then you know it was received as intended.

No. "Oh, I'm really sorry I did that", followed by handing the item to the correct person, is the respectful response.

I wonder though if you see my criticism as a meanness because you don't agree with my complaint.

Nope. I personally don't care to whom the check or folder is presented. Not my place to reprimand the server. My place is to simply hand it to whomever is paying.

Do you chastise him with a formal sounding complaint?

Three wrong orders? No. At that point, it's time to see a manager. Not writing down the orders could be the restaurant's policy. Management needs to know it's not working.

 

[marikujawa]

The people who work in restaurants are your servers, not your servants. I’ve seen so many demeaning comments and attitudes expressed on these threads. We frequently dine in upscale restaurants and have witnessed people complaining and sending back food as though they were eating their last meal. I certainly believe in getting value in both food and service, but there’s such a thing as being too picky. Just put the minor issues behind you - you’ll be happier in the long run.

 

[EveDallas]

I have never seen any reason to ever behave like that in a restaurant. You may think you are making the server feel bad, but you look equally bad, if not worse. And I'm sure it makes your family proud. Having family in the military, they would never behave like that. That is not their training.

100% agree. My father was in the military for 25 years and would never act like this. He had more respect for his family and his fellow man.

 

[jbehr12]

No. Demeaning is assuming the man pays the bill. Cracking a joke to let the server know they made an error is a kindness.

Somehow, as a society, we have gotten to a place where pointing out another person's rudeness, however amiably, is regarded as worse than the rude behavior being called out. Ever watch British people react to someone cutting in line? You'll never see anyone harumph and tut tut to themselves quite so energetically.

We live in a society. We're all in this together. When someone is disrespectful I let them know and I give them the opportunity to correct it. And make no mistake, taking a credit card from a woman and returning it to her husband for a signature is disrespectful. The disrespect may not be intentional. It may be completely accidental. But if it's never corrected, it becomes normal.

I’m sorry but putting the book back in from
of the person of the wrong gender isn’t an “error”, it’s an eye roll worthy nit pick.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I think we might get overall good service because we have low expectations. Not low standards, but we kind of just like to be left alone? Come take our orders promptly, bring stuff out at a reasonable pace, be reasonably friendly. That’s basically it!

 

[jbehr12]

I mean, I guess tone and body language don't translate to the typed comment well, but to be fair, a comment like that is really just an observation; something we both know. Whether a person appreciates it or not simply reflects their appreciation for reality. Generally, most people don't like to be criticized, however obliquely. People who take their job seriously should.

I tend to reserve outrage for situations that warrant it. It's been years since I was last outraged.

But to clarify... while I think the habit of bringing the bill to the man by default demonstrates a pretty deeply ingrained gender bias, it's not something I would comment on or really, by itself, hold against a server.

My complaint rises from the model case of when the bill is brought to the table (usually to me) and returned by my wife to the server with a credit card with her name on it, taken to the POS terminal, and returned with the sales slip and handed to me to be signed. That... without attaching any motive to it at all, is a behavior that needs to be corrected.

I’d prefer the server was not looking at my personal credit card information tbh. At least when I was a server I’d rather avoid people thinking I was looking at credit card numbers for the sake of being politically correct. For every person who cares about where a card is placed there is another who doesn’t want someone looking at their info. As a server you can’t win, so practice what you preach about living in a society and try to see it from their perspective before condescendingly “correcting them”.

 

[MomOTwins]

I'm the primary breadwinner and always pay the check. When a server gives the check to my husband (or returns my card to him), I politely say "I'll take that please." Frankly, if my husband made a big scene about being my white knight and mansplaining to the waitstaff why I am the one one paying the bills instead of letting me speak for myself, I'd be offended (and embarrassed)!