What would you do in this situation? edited

[sdoll]

We live in a neighborhood with our 2 boys and they are friends with 3 other boys in the neighborhood. They have been thick as thieves for years. There is one boy that although we all like him is a bit tougher to like and over the last 1.5 years all the kids hang out with him a bit less than they used to. Last year we took all the boys on a vacation to Florida with us. All the boys were great except for the one. He lied to us at times, didn't help with keeping the condo clean, was a bit ungreatful and really just didn't follow our rules, which weren't to crazy. Fast forward to this year and the boys don't want him to go on our next adventure with us. We haven't told him yet. We also haven't talked to his parents about it. They know we had some issues on the last trip but we didn't go into too much detail as we felt we addressed it with the kid on vacation.
Here's the question do we owe them an expalination that we aren't inviting him on this trip? Should we give them a heads up? We used to be close to them but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago and they have since seperated. I feel really bad hurting the kids feelings but at the same time he isn't always the nicest kid. I just don't know what to do! Last year on our trip he was really grumpy and we were all upset with him. He went on to tell us his dog died and thats why he was so grumpy. We all were doing our best to cheer him up and felt horrible that we were frustrated. I texted his parents that afternoon to let them know how he was doing with the news of losing his dog. THE DOG WASN'T DEAD!
I am so torn if I should talk to him or his parents about our upcoming vacation without him. He's 13 if that makes a difference

Edit: Our neighbor boy was over yesterday and asked if we were taking a vacation this year. UGH!! I waited until I had the opportunity to talk to him alone. I explained to him that we were taking a vaction but at the time we booked it he and my son weren't getting along and that we didn't include him in our tip this year. I also explained that I had some concerns/frustrations about his behavior and helpfulness on the last trip. He took it about as good as a 13 year old can. I feel horrible but also feel better that I was honest with him. I don't plan on addressing his parents unless they approach us (which I could see them doing). I hate hurting kids. While the kids aren't as close with him as they used to be I will always have a soft spot in my heart for him and felt like a horrible person when I told him.

 

[mom2rtk]

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We had boys down the street that were close friends and played with our 2 boys all the time. As they got older one of the boys just brought too much chaos to every situation. So after one incident where the boy behaved especially badly, I told the mother it was better if they didn't all hang out together. Mother chose to believe that boy's lie about what happened over the word of the other 3 kids there (including her other son). It was hard and still is because one of our sons is still very close friends with the other boy.

Bottom line is you don't owe anyone a vacation. But expect them to be upset.

 

[starry_solo]

No explanation necessary

 

[Ms.Minnie]

It sounds like the boy has issues at home that may be contributing to his poor behaviour. I don’t think I would say anything to the boy or his parents, that could get very awkward. I don’t know where you plan to go but I think if it were me I wouldn’t take anybody extra on this vacation unless it’s a relative or close family friend. Just my two cents.

 

[dez1978]

So, sometimes my oldest kid is kind of a jerk, or was, we are mostly past that now. He's almost 10 and has adhd and sometimes struggles to control his emotions or says things he knows he shouldn't. We are working on it. So if this were my kid, while as his mom I'd feel bad for him, Id want him to know why he isn't invited. It's a powerful learning experience. Certainly more powerful than anything I could possibly say to him. Kids need to learn how they treat others will affect if those others want to be around them or include them. This is certainly an effective way to do that. In fact for my kid, when some of the kids stopped wanting him to play with them at recess, that was the thing that got his attention and made him think about his actions. It wasn't what we said to him, or his teachers, or anything we did about it, it was the peer pressure.

 

[GBRforWDW]

We're you bringing the other 2 boys in the neighborhood? If you didn't invite any, that'd make it easier. Just say you were needing a family only vacation this time.

Otherwise if you're bringing the 2 and excluding the one, I'm assuming his behavior hasn't changed since last trip, if someone is demanding an explanation, I'd just inform them that you command a certain amount of respect and assistance from those invited and due to the last trip, as well as not seeing anything different from him at home, we unfortunately aren't able to invite him this time.

 

[BrianL]

We live in a neighborhood with our 2 boys and they are friends with 3 other boys in the neighborhood. They have been thick as thieves for years. There is one boy that although we all like him is a bit tougher to like and over the last 1.5 years all the kids hang out with him a bit less than they used to. Last year we took all the boys on a vacation to Florida with us. All the boys were great except for the one. He lied to us at times, didn't help with keeping the condo clean, was a bit ungreatful and really just didn't follow our rules, which weren't to crazy. Fast forward to this year and the boys don't want him to go on our next adventure with us. We haven't told him yet. We also haven't talked to his parents about it. They know we had some issues on the last trip but we didn't go into too much detail as we felt we addressed it with the kid on vacation.
Here's the question do we owe them an expalination that we aren't inviting him on this trip? Should we give them a heads up? We used to be close to them but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago and they have since seperated. I feel really bad hurting the kids feelings but at the same time he isn't always the nicest kid. I just don't know what to do! Last year on our trip he was really grumpy and we were all upset with him. He went on to tell us his dog died and thats why he was so grumpy. We all were doing our best to cheer him up and felt horrible that we were frustrated. I texted his parents that afternoon to let them know how he was doing with the news of losing his dog. THE DOG WASN'T DEAD!
I am so torn if I should talk to him or his parents about our upcoming vacation without him. He's 13 if that makes a difference

I don't know that I can offer advice, but I can say this sounds familliar to me. I had a best friend when I was a kid, however he changed and became a bit troublesome. I didn't necessarily realize it at the time but it corresponded to when his parents separated. It was similar too, lying, saying things that didn't quite make sense or didn't happen. It was hard to hang around him as he started treating me poorly, so eventually I had to just be done with him. It was difficult too! We were a bit younger than these kids at the time, but not by much. It was a situation that sort of degraded over a couple of years. It's unfortunate that this kid is having a tough time. Talking to the parents may be a good way to go, but I'm not sure it will really help.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think you simply invite the other boys (if that's what you want to do). WHEN it comes up with the problem boy/parents (they'll definitely find out, it's only a question of when and if they say anything to you), you can either tell them the truth (he didn't follow directions, didn't help keep things clean, and lied), tell a lie (we don't have the money for an extra person), or simply say something like "this is our decision and we don't want to discuss it."

 

[usnuzuloose]

This young man is struggling with some issues. You don't owe an explanation for not taking him. How ever what I would do is when he is around is keep loving him. Sounds like he is not getting it at home. One time I gave my son a hug and young man that was with him asked for a hug as well. By loving them you can bring out the best in them. And they maybe inclined to tell you what is bothering him. Sometimes parents just don't know how to love their children and so other issues come about instead of love and understanding.

 

[KingAugie]

We live in a neighborhood with our 2 boys and they are friends with 3 other boys in the neighborhood. They have been thick as thieves for years. There is one boy that although we all like him is a bit tougher to like and over the last 1.5 years all the kids hang out with him a bit less than they used to. Last year we took all the boys on a vacation to Florida with us. All the boys were great except for the one. He lied to us at times, didn't help with keeping the condo clean, was a bit ungreatful and really just didn't follow our rules, which weren't to crazy. Fast forward to this year and the boys don't want him to go on our next adventure with us. We haven't told him yet. We also haven't talked to his parents about it. They know we had some issues on the last trip but we didn't go into too much detail as we felt we addressed it with the kid on vacation.
Here's the question do we owe them an expalination that we aren't inviting him on this trip? Should we give them a heads up? We used to be close to them but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago and they have since seperated. I feel really bad hurting the kids feelings but at the same time he isn't always the nicest kid. I just don't know what to do! Last year on our trip he was really grumpy and we were all upset with him. He went on to tell us his dog died and thats why he was so grumpy. We all were doing our best to cheer him up and felt horrible that we were frustrated. I texted his parents that afternoon to let them know how he was doing with the news of losing his dog. THE DOG WASN'T DEAD!
I am so torn if I should talk to him or his parents about our upcoming vacation without him. He's 13 if that makes a difference

If you had a falling out with the parents do you even talk to them still? If yes then I'd be honest with them why you aren't inviting him this year. As hard as it would be to hear I would want to know the truth that my child was such a problem.
If you don't really communicate with them any longer then just invite the other 2. If it comes up and they ask I'd just be honest. It may change your relationship with them permanently but that's just life.

 

[Colleen27]

I feel bad for the kid - 13 is a tough age, especially for boys who get way too much macho BS from a society that doesn't like to acknowledge that men have feelings and need help coping sometimes too, and it is very likely that the way he's acted is directly related to his home life. But you need to do what is best for your kids and you don't owe anyone an explanation for that. If you don't want to ruffle any feathers and don't think talking to the boy's parents honestly would do any good, you could always frame it as "five boys are just too much" and say that you decided to set a new limit of one friend for each of your kids. If the kids have been hanging out with him less than usual, it probably won't surprise anyone that he'd be the odd one out under that kind of restriction.

 

[mjkacmom]

We live in a neighborhood with our 2 boys and they are friends with 3 other boys in the neighborhood. They have been thick as thieves for years. There is one boy that although we all like him is a bit tougher to like and over the last 1.5 years all the kids hang out with him a bit less than they used to. Last year we took all the boys on a vacation to Florida with us. All the boys were great except for the one. He lied to us at times, didn't help with keeping the condo clean, was a bit ungreatful and really just didn't follow our rules, which weren't to crazy. Fast forward to this year and the boys don't want him to go on our next adventure with us. We haven't told him yet. We also haven't talked to his parents about it. They know we had some issues on the last trip but we didn't go into too much detail as we felt we addressed it with the kid on vacation.
Here's the question do we owe them an expalination that we aren't inviting him on this trip? Should we give them a heads up? We used to be close to them but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago and they have since seperated. I feel really bad hurting the kids feelings but at the same time he isn't always the nicest kid. I just don't know what to do! Last year on our trip he was really grumpy and we were all upset with him. He went on to tell us his dog died and thats why he was so grumpy. We all were doing our best to cheer him up and felt horrible that we were frustrated. I texted his parents that afternoon to let them know how he was doing with the news of losing his dog. THE DOG WASN'T DEAD!
I am so torn if I should talk to him or his parents about our upcoming vacation without him. He's 13 if that makes a difference

This young man is struggling with some issues. You don't owe an explanation for not taking him. How ever what I would do is when he is around is keep loving him. Sounds like he is not getting it at home. One time I gave my son a hug and young man that was with him asked for a hug as well. By loving them you can bring out the best in them. And they maybe inclined to tell you what is bothering him. Sometimes parents just don't know how to love their children and so other issues come about instead of love and understanding.

What in the OP’s post indicated he has family issues and that his parents don’t love them? I have 5 kids with a range of personalities that they were born with, ranging from one who is super friendly and helpful, always in a great mood, to another who tends to be grumpy and is a complete slob, and doesn’t talk to adults much. He’s had good parenting and is loved, even when he was little he was always doing stuff he wasn’t supposed to. Are all of your kids the same?

 

[BrianL]

What in the OP’s post indicated he has family issues and that his parents don’t love them? I have 5 kids with a range of personalities that they were born with, ranging from one who is super friendly and helpful, always in a great mood, to another who tends to be grumpy and is a complete slob, and doesn’t talk to adults much. He’s had good parenting and is loved, even when he was little he was always doing stuff he wasn’t supposed to. Are all of your kids the same?

It's not certian that he is not getting love, but the OP did say his parents recently separated which can definitely affect home life and be hard on a kid. It certainly sounds like a likely impetus for the behavioral changes, though of course not the only factor.

 

[Pooh2]

I would not invite any kids this year, just do a family trip and not say anything to the neighbors.

 

[Christine]

This is really a hard one and, in my head, I know what the *right* thing to do is, but not sure if I could do it. I'd have to see how I felt about my relationship with the parents.

OP, you've stated these boys have all been long-term friends and there's been several vacations where all of them went. Now the one boy is not pleasant to be around. Unfortunately, they are all still friends and it's going to be quite obvious the boy when he's left out. And there will be no explanation. It's just like you guys are kind of "ghosting" him for lack of a better term. I don't like that and I always feel honesty is best in the situations. Just imagine how hurtful being left out will feel to this boy (and maybe how his mother might feel). We've all read numerous "left out" threads here on the DIS and moms are usually in a lot of hurt over why their child is left out.

SInce you are taking all the other boys, the right thing to do is let the parent(s) of this boy know why. If you weren't taking any of the other boys I would agree that you would owe NO ONE an explanation. This is a little different. He is being excluded (and for his own fault) but the boy and his mother/father may not be very self aware. At least you have "the dead dog" incident to use as an example when/if you discuss with the parents.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Why not just keep it family only?

 

[r1lissa]

You don't owe them any kind of explanation. It's not like you're best friends with his parents.
Go on your trip and enjoy. No need to feel guilty or stressed about this.

 

[sdoll]

If you had a falling out with the parents do you even talk to them still? If yes then I'd be honest with them why you aren't inviting him this year. As hard as it would be to hear I would want to know the truth that my child was such a problem.
If you don't really communicate with them any longer then just invite the other 2. If it comes up and they ask I'd just be honest. It may change your relationship with them permanently but that's just life.

We don't really talk to the parents much anyore. We used to be really close but everything became a competition with them. Sports, grades etc. it got so old. I don't think it will change much in our friendship but there really isn;t much of one at this point.

 

[msjprincess]

This is really a hard one and, in my head, I know what the *right* thing to do is, but not sure if I could do it. I'd have to see how I felt about my relationship with the parents.

OP, you've stated these boys have all been long-term friends and there's been several vacations where all of them went. Now the one boy is not pleasant to be around. Unfortunately, they are all still friends and it's going to be quite obvious the boy when he's left out. And there will be no explanation. It's just like you guys are kind of "ghosting" him for lack of a better term. I don't like that and I always feel honesty is best in the situations. Just imagine how hurtful being left out will feel to this boy (and maybe how his mother might feel). We've all read numerous "left out" threads here on the DIS and moms are usually in a lot of hurt over why their child is left out.

SInce you are taking all the other boys, the right thing to do is let the parent(s) of this boy know why. If you weren't taking any of the other boys I would agree that you would owe NO ONE an explanation. This is a little different. He is being excluded (and for his own fault) but the boy and his mother/father may not be very self aware. At least you have "the dead dog" incident to use as an example when/if you discuss with the parents.

I agree. I would at least give a heads up.

Truthfully as annoying as the kid is, it would bother me to leave him out. I probably wouldn't invite any of them.

 

[VandVsmama]

Family only trip.