What would you do in this situation? edited

Things may get extra awkward with the boy’s parents and maybe even the boy, but I doubt the parents will say anything to you. It’s not like you owe them a trip or committed to always taking these same kids on vacation. They should be grateful you took him once and understand that situations change—anything from the size of the hotel room(s)/vehicle to how close friends the kids are—and taking him once didn’t mean that would always be the case. Plus, I suspect they will recall that you had some “issues” the last time and won’t want to rehash that with you.
 
This young man is struggling with some issues. You don't owe an explanation for not taking him. How ever what I would do is when he is around is keep loving him. Sounds like he is not getting it at home. One time I gave my son a hug and young man that was with him asked for a hug as well. By loving them you can bring out the best in them. And they maybe inclined to tell you what is bothering him. Sometimes parents just don't know how to love their children and so other issues come about instead of love and understanding.
I promise you we keep on showing love and support. It has been hard to watch him struggle, his struggling has led him to put our son down and make fun of his grades (something my son is very sensitive about) and my first reponsibility is to my son. But we include him in most things but the trip would more than likely push us past our limits.
 
This is really a hard one and, in my head, I know what the *right* thing to do is, but not sure if I could do it. I'd have to see how I felt about my relationship with the parents.

OP, you've stated these boys have all been long-term friends and there's been several vacations where all of them went. Now the one boy is not pleasant to be around. Unfortunately, they are all still friends and it's going to be quite obvious the boy when he's left out. And there will be no explanation. It's just like you guys are kind of "ghosting" him for lack of a better term. I don't like that and I always feel honesty is best in the situations. Just imagine how hurtful being left out will feel to this boy (and maybe how his mother might feel). We've all read numerous "left out" threads here on the DIS and moms are usually in a lot of hurt over why their child is left out.

SInce you are taking all the other boys, the right thing to do is let the parent(s) of this boy know why. If you weren't taking any of the other boys I would agree that you would owe NO ONE an explanation. This is a little different. He is being excluded (and for his own fault) but the boy and his mother/father may not be very self aware. At least you have "the dead dog" incident to use as an example when/if you discuss with the parents.
OP here you speak to my heart because I beleive in doing the right thing. That is why I am struggling so much. I know this young man has been through a lot lately and it hurts me to think that i might be hurting him. However, he hasn't been a kind kid for a while. My son is very insecure and he picks on his insecurities. I get that it can be typical behavior but a week of that might be too much for me at this point. Any other parent group I would feel completly comfortable talking to but these parents arent the easiest. There is a bit of a history with them which would include their son coming to my house and telling me that his mom said I am a horrible person and named off a few reasons why, the dad cut my son from his team even though my son was a decent player etc. very competetive. So talking to them wouldn't be easy. I shoudl say that Iive a very drama free life. I am comfortable with confrontation but just don't see the need for it as they clearly aren't good friends. I just hurt for the kid. He will be crushed.
 
Things like this are hard, especially since you are all neighbors.

Honestly, I would just do a family trip this year......but if you must bring other kids, I would not include the one who caused problems. It seems like the boys naturally grew apart so I don't think it would be awkward to not include him.
 
What in the OP’s post indicated he has family issues and that his parents don’t love them? I have 5 kids with a range of personalities that they were born with, ranging from one who is super friendly and helpful, always in a great mood, to another who tends to be grumpy and is a complete slob, and doesn’t talk to adults much. He’s had good parenting and is loved, even when he was little he was always doing stuff he wasn’t supposed to. Are all of your kids the same?
I was coming to say the same thing. As I posted earlier, my kid can certainly be a jerk. That doesn't mean he's not getting love at home, or that there are issues at home. It means 1, he's a kid that is still learning social skills, and 2, sometimes kids are just jerks for no other reason other than they are kids.
 
OP here you speak to my heart because I beleive in doing the right thing. That is why I am struggling so much. I know this young man has been through a lot lately and it hurts me to think that i might be hurting him. However, he hasn't been a kind kid for a while. My son is very insecure and he picks on his insecurities. I get that it can be typical behavior but a week of that might be too much for me at this point. Any other parent group I would feel completly comfortable talking to but these parents arent the easiest. There is a bit of a history with them which would include their son coming to my house and telling me that his mom said I am a horrible person and named off a few reasons why, the dad cut my son from his team even though my son was a decent player etc. very competetive. So talking to them wouldn't be easy. I shoudl say that Iive a very drama free life. I am comfortable with confrontation but just don't see the need for it as they clearly aren't good friends. I just hurt for the kid. He will be crushed.

Thanks for the additional information. Based on that, it doesn't seem like it would be a very productive conversation nor would they take it in the spirit it was intended. In that case, I'd probably not do it. Very tough situation.
 
OP here- we didn't want to do a family trip as we love the other kids as if they were family. I don't think it would be fair to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. Truly the other 2 kids are a non issue and with the ages of the kids it actually provides my husband and I a little bit more alone time. To give you an example of our relationship with the kids we would get custody of one of the boys if his parents passed away. These boys don't knock to enter our home, we just assume they will be with us on any given day etc.
I think I might try and say something to the dad and explain with the changing relationship we have decided to not include him. I don't want to be disrespectful or hurt anyones feelings and I certainy don't want to hurt the kid's feelings. This is so hard.
 
My son is very insecure and he picks on his insecurities.

That alone would be enough not to want him around my kid! Combined with the what you said about his parents, I think trying to be what he needs is just too much for you right now. He does probably need a non-parent grown-up to take an interest in him, but it should not be one that has to pay for that by their own child being hurt.

Personally, I don't know how you were able to take three extra kids on vacation once, you certainly shouldn't be expected to do it again!
 
OP here- we didn't want to do a family trip as we love the other kids as if they were family. I don't think it would be fair to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. Truly the other 2 kids are a non issue and with the ages of the kids it actually provides my husband and I a little bit more alone time. To give you an example of our relationship with the kids we would get custody of one of the boys if his parents passed away. These boys don't knock to enter our home, we just assume they will be with us on any given day etc.
I think I might try and say something to the dad and explain with the changing relationship we have decided to not include him. I don't want to be disrespectful or hurt anyones feelings and I certainy don't want to hurt the kid's feelings. This is so hard.

Honestly, as I mentioned above, no explanation is necessary. I get why some people think one might be, but it really isn't. People grow apart all the time.
 
If it were me I would explain, but that's just my opinion. I would also have talked to the parents after the last trip, because as I mom I want to know if my kids are misbehaving when I'm not around so that I can address it with them, so I try to be as forthcoming with other parents as I want them to be with me.
 
Disrespectful is a strange word in this context.

To your original request, being grateful is learned behaviour. If his parents don't do this themselves, the boy never learned it either. The lying sounds like a way to get attention or to get away with something. Either way, don't take him, but don't blame it on the kid.
 
I definitely wouldn't take him, but would explain to the parent(s) why. We had a similar situation when my children were younger, although it was girls. After the conversation and the vacation the girls drifted apart, and in the long run it was beneficial for my daughter.
 
If your relationship with this other family has been on the downward spiral and you hardly talk/interact any more, than I don't think any explanation is necessary. If you do plan on inviting the other 2 boys, even with the disconnect with the other family, there will be hurt feelings regardless.
 
OP here- we didn't want to do a family trip as we love the other kids as if they were family. I don't think it would be fair to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. Truly the other 2 kids are a non issue and with the ages of the kids it actually provides my husband and I a little bit more alone time. To give you an example of our relationship with the kids we would get custody of one of the boys if his parents passed away. These boys don't knock to enter our home, we just assume they will be with us on any given day etc.
I think I might try and say something to the dad and explain with the changing relationship we have decided to not include him. I don't want to be disrespectful or hurt anyones feelings and I certainy don't want to hurt the kid's feelings. This is so hard.

So, take the other 2 kids, and be a group of 6. Blame Covid. Many places limit restaurant seating to 6 at a table, so you have a built in excuse...
 
I honestly don't think you owe them any explanation at all. Your vacation, your plans. He is fortunate you invited him before .... and he took advantage of that. I am sure his parents are well aware of his behaviors and if/when he doesn't get invited places ... why. Given it sounds like the entire relationship situation is changed, it should be no surprise to them.

Tell your boys they can invite their two friends, that is one each and that is enough. With their older age, bigger sizes, bigger appetites it just isn't feasible to take a larger group than that. If anyone actually does say something you repeat the story. No one can argue that.

Most friendships don't last forever, interests and behaviors change, Not a bad thing. DD had a best friend for years. We took her on our vacation one year and they were to take our DD the next year. Over the course of the year their interests changed and time consumed elsewhere and they were not hanging out. I wasn't the least bit upset when they asked a different girl to go with them that had been spending more time with their daughter. Life changes and goes on. Don't be upset about or it will seem like something awful. Just stick with your story and probably by the next year they won't be friends at all.
 
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When is this next adventure? What are the ages of the children?

The other kids could outgrow the friendship with the other boy too even before this next trip occurs which sounds like that is already starting. That may have more of an importance than trying to figure how how to tell the boy and his parents or to give an explanation why though that does depend on when the next trip is.

Not everyone (adults included) are good on trips. Just the way it is. Even if these boys were all great friends doesn't mean they would all get along or that all would be good for a trip. I know I had friends that I wouldn't have wanted to travel with. Have sleepovers? Absolutely! But a trip? Not always. Sounds like the boy may just not be a good trip goer right now. Heck even just a few short years ago a trip with my mother-in-law and sister-in-law usually devolved into fighting and the other sister-in-law the rare times she came with us rarely wanted to do group activities. And conversely there are trips that my husband and I don't necessarily want to invite our in-laws/parents to. An island vacation is one of them. We'd go to Vegas with my mom but that wouldn't be a good trip to go with step-father-in-law and mother-in-law. And so on.

I don't think an invite is required (despite past trips) though an explanation it may depend on these other circumstances. For instance if the other kids have a falling out with this boy likely you wouldn't have to give an explanation. That said you wouldn't have to give a detailed reason why as that may make more of the issue than it needs to be.

I give ya kudos OP for trying to be as sensitive as you can be with this other boy :flower3:
 
I think you simply invite the other boys (if that's what you want to do). WHEN it comes up with the problem boy/parents (they'll definitely find out, it's only a question of when and if they say anything to you), you can either tell them the truth (he didn't follow directions, didn't help keep things clean, and lied), tell a lie (we don't have the money for an extra person), or simply say something like "this is our decision and we don't want to discuss it."
I'd imagine you just pulled out a quick example but this particular thing is a bad idea. It still leaves the OP having to explain why she picked the other kids or even worse, the parents offering to pay for their son to go and then having to wiggle out of that.
 
Since you've decided to take the other two friends, I'd make sure that all of the boys going on the trip knew they weren't to mention the trip around the other boy, even if you have to remind them several times. Them talking about a trip that he isn't invited on would make the situation worse.
 

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