Is Chapek on the verge of being fired?

[Jrb1979]

i see where you are coming from, but i think you are only taking into account what Disney has done recently. Universal already has a paid for line skipping offering, that costs more than Disneys, they have both continued to raise pricing year over year. The real "difference" is in perks being cut back, or changed, (ie, early/after hours) my thought on this is that Disney wasn't having problems stuffing their Value, and Moderate hotel offerings, and they are making a concerted effort to fill their Deluxe. I do believe that a lot of the other changes were caused by Covid, and i do not foresee them being continued once things settle back down, (when that will be is anyone's guess at this point).

Bringing it back to another cell phone analogy, Disney is Verizon or AT&T, and Universal would be T-Mobile, I don't think many would think it worth Verizons time to offer better perks, because they already "own" a large customer base, T-mobile on the other hand should offer unlimited plans, ect., to better compete with the like of Verizon. People put Universal and Disney in the same weight class, but just in terms of revenue alone,(not to get too far into financials) Disney cleans up. I just think that at the end of the day, Disney can charge more, because they offer more, (even with scaling some things back) maybe someday that will change, only time will tell.

I think that's where you and I differ. I believe a lot of the changes are what they always wanted to do. Covid just made it easier for them to do it quicker.

As far as demand goes IMO it's still mostly made up of those who had cancelled trips the last 2 years.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

marketers will also tell you that for every vocal complaint many more simply go away:

A study by TARP Research as far back as 1999 uncovered the fact that for every 26 unhappy customers, only 1 will bother to make a formal complaint. The rest will either stay where they are disappointed or will silently take their business elsewhere. According to another research by 1st Financial Training services, 96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, 91% of those will simply leave and never come back. White House Office of Consumer Affairs found that a dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% tell more than 20 people, which leads to damage of reputation, loss of potential customers and revenue.

I have no doubt that Disney does enormous amounts of research. But research is only as good as the questions asked. Do you think Disney's researched the end of their MB? Was the question...We plan to end the MB, as a customer are happy and willing to find your own way to the parks? I kind of doubt it. Or for FP. Do you think their question was.... We plan to end the free FP, increase our entry fee to the parks and charge you for a pass that at times will not allow you the ability to ride your favorite rides? I kind of doubt it. But those are the real results of their changes. I know the FP at times did not get you on your favorite rids, but you can accept it when it's free, not when it's an extra fee. Or did they ask this question.... your visit to the Magic Kingdom will cost your upwards of 30% or more than in the past, are you happy to pay that extra amount with the likelihood of at best receiving the same value proposition, if not a lesser one?

Count the unhappy customers on this board, then adjust by the above marketing factors. I'm not sure how many casual conversations we had with other visitors to Universal last week discussing these exact issues as to why we were at Universal vs. Disney. And the "masses" is nothing more than an accumulation of individuals.

Curious to see how that study would hold up in the internet age, my guess is that many more would make a formal complaint, because it is easier to do so, and would reach more eyes, i just don't think you can trust a study done over 20 years ago, it was a completely different time.

I believe the MB wasn't a direct decision of Disney's, i could be incorrect, but i thought that had more to do with the contractors they employed to run the service, (and who knows, they may be working up a solve now, or waiting to see how it affects business). As it pertains to the rest, Disney could not make those moves without causing waves, charging more always drives dissent, they are in a losing position whenever they raise prices, or make changes in anyway for that matter.

What this all boils down to is, people don't like price increases, but if you want the service/ experience they provide, you will still pay for it. The real question is, is Disney approaching the cost v experience line, and i think as we talk about it today, the answer is still no, (not no for everyone, but no for the vast majority).

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Thats true but a lot of that is tied up in 401ks and similar retirement funds attached to a market that is historically high and could start to drop anytime now. Id be curious to see a liquid vs retirement savings chart for Americans.

fair point

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

And that travel will branch back out to their normal venues. We've been itching to travel back to the Caribbean since the start of covid. Once air travel become safe an reliable we will. The return to travel will likely include not driving to the closest parks or beaches anymore. It's likely going to be the things that people couldn't do over the 2-3 years of covid.

another fair point

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think that's where you and I differ. I believe a lot of the changes are what they always wanted to do. Covid just made it easier for them to do it quicker.

As far as demand goes IMO it's still mostly made up of those who had cancelled trips the last 2 years.

that point i don't fully disagree with, as it pertains to Perks shifting/ being canceled, fast pass, i would agree with you. Where i wouldn't go that far would be, cutting back on portion sizes, parades, after hours events v parties, even magical express which seemed to be a problem with their vendors, all of which some on these boards have said Disney always wanted to do.

 

[Jrb1979]

that point i don't fully disagree with, as it pertains to Perks shifting/ being canceled, fast pass, i would agree with you. Where i wouldn't go that far would be, cutting back on portion sizes, parades, after hours events v parties, even magical express which seemed to be a problem with their vendors, all of which some on these boards have said Disney always wanted to do.

I agree they probably wouldn't have gone that far with those things. People have accepted them as being gone Those other things are probably not coming back either at this point. The cavalcades and after hour events are here to stay.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I agree they probably wouldn't have gone that far with those things. People have accepted them as being gone Those other things are probably not coming back either at this point. The cavalcades and after hour events are here to stay.

I doubt that, just based on what other parks have been doing, and WDW's own christmas parade this year. I do think that cavalcades do have a role moving forward though, and honestly i kind of appreciate them, when we were there in October, i liked the fact that they didn't shut down huge areas for 30 minutes. That being said, i could see them running parades once a day as opposed to 2-3 times per day. after hours have always been a thing, but i could see them going back to full on parties eventually when staffing concerns are buttoned up. Right now, i just don't think they have what they need across the parks, to support a full on party

 

[Jrb1979]

I doubt that, just based on what other parks have been doing, and WDW's own christmas parade this year. I do think that cavalcades do have a role moving forward though, and honestly i kind of appreciate them, when we were there in October, i liked the fact that they didn't shut down huge areas for 30 minutes. That being said, i could see them running parades once a day as opposed to 2-3 times per day. after hours have always been a thing, but i could see them going back to full on parties eventually when staffing concerns are buttoned up. Right now, i just don't think they have what they need across the parks, to support a full on party

You're more hopeful then I am in things returning I will give you that. From things I have read Disney is happy with the after hour events over parties as they need less CM's and get more money from it.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I think the fact that you've only stayed at a deluxe once, is why Disney is offering more perks to Deluxe guests. Disney, (to me), is trying to entice moderate and value guests to splurge on a Deluxe. Will that drive some guests away, (such as yourself) I could see that, but it could also have the effect Disney is looking for, time will tell. I think a lot on these boards keep talking about how they are "sticking it" to Disney, that may materialize into something detrimental to Disney's bottom line, but my guess is that Disney has already accounted for the drop off of some, to get increases from others across the board. Again, time will tell

I stayed at a deluxe once in the mid 90s.

 

[Ga9usa]

Curious to see how that study would hold up in the internet age, my guess is that many more would make a formal complaint, because it is easier to do so, and would reach more eyes, i just don't think you can trust a study done over 20 years ago, it was a completely different time.

I believe the MB wasn't a direct decision of Disney's, i could be incorrect, but i thought that had more to do with the contractors they employed to run the service, (and who knows, they may be working up a solve now, or waiting to see how it affects business). As it pertains to the rest, Disney could not make those moves without causing waves, charging more always drives dissent, they are in a losing position whenever they raise prices, or make changes in anyway for that matter.

What this all boils down to is, people don't like price increases, but if you want the service/ experience they provide, you will still pay for it. The real question is, is Disney approaching the cost v experience line, and i think as we talk about it today, the answer is still no, (not no for everyone, but no for the vast majority).

While I agree that the internet does make it easier to file complaints, I still think the 20 year old studies are correct on human nature. We might spend hours complaining online to friends now about how horrible our experience was, and those complaints can now reach a much wider audience, but we won't take the extra step of going to an official site and making the complaint.

That aside, I read an op ed a few weeks ago about the changing demographics of Disney because of the experience vs price line. The author commented on how the experience has diminished incredibly while the price has exponentially increased which has moved the population of guests from average middle class to upper class. There will always be people willing to pay the price to go, but how many will stay home?

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

That aside, I read an op ed a few weeks ago about the changing demographics of Disney because of the experience vs price line. The author commented on how the experience has diminished incredibly while the price has exponentially increased which has moved the population of guests from average middle class to upper class. There will always be people willing to pay the price to go, but how many will stay home?

That's interesting, typically the upper class expects more, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Disney would have dialed things back, and the upper class would settle for it. I don't think "rich" people just flock to areas that cost a lot of money, they would expect a certain level of service, it's a juxtaposition to say that Disneys service/ experience have been cut way back, and that is attracting a higher end client

 

[Ga9usa]

That's interesting, typically the upper class expects more, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Disney would have dialed things back, and the upper class would settle for it. I don't think "rich" people just flock to areas that cost a lot of money, they would expect a certain level of service, it's a juxtaposition to say that Disneys service/ experience have been cut way back, and that is attracting a higher end client

I did not mean to imply that rich people who are accustomed to the finer things in life are coming to Disney. If they are, they are staying at much nicer and better serviced hotels. I meant that the Disney population has now switched from middle income people who could save for a few weeks for a trip to people who can afford a much higher price tag. As an example, when I was a child visiting Disney in the late '80s, a ticket was roughly $25 and a kid's ticket was $7. That means the average family of 4 paid $64 to go to Disney World. In today's money, that's $155. That makes a huge difference in who can afford to go. We were thinking of coming for a visit at the end of the month. Just for the three of us, without park hopper or genie+, our tickets would be $1600 for 5 days.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I did not mean to imply that rich people who are accustomed to the finer things in life are coming to Disney. If they are, they are staying at much nicer and better serviced hotels. I meant that the Disney population has now switched from middle income people who could save for a few weeks for a trip to people who can afford a much higher price tag. As an example, when I was a child visiting Disney in the late '80s, a ticket was roughly $25 and a kid's ticket was $7. That means the average family of 4 paid $64 to go to Disney World. In today's money, that's $155. That makes a huge difference in who can afford to go. We were thinking of coming for a visit at the end of the month. Just for the three of us, without park hopper or genie+, our tickets would be $1600 for 5 days.

I would argue that Disney wasn’t charging enough back then, those were the early Michael Eisner years when he was still picking up a lot of broken pieces, Disney was run extremely poor prior to him and frank wells arriving, and that all started to change when they took the helm. There is a steep difference in price, but with everything Disney has added over the years, I would say there’s good reason to charge more. I never find the ticket price comparison to be valid, there are way to many variables to be considered. Universal charged $2.50 per ticket back in the sixties, but no one brings that up on these boards

 

[Ga9usa]

I would argue that Disney wasn’t charging enough back then, those were the early Michael Eisner years when he was still picking up a lot of broken pieces, Disney was run extremely poor prior to him and frank wells arriving, and that all started to change when they took the helm. There is a steep difference in price, but with everything Disney has added over the years, I would say there’s good reason to charge more. I never find the ticket price comparison to be valid, there are way to many variables to be considered. Universal charged $2.50 per ticket back in the sixties, but no one brings that up on these boards

Sure, the price for a ticket should have gone up, but twice the price plus genie plus parking plus expensive food plus expensive rooms that aren't much better than a cheap motel etc is just a little bit much, particularly for people making less than six figures.

 

[Illinois76]

Sure, the price for a ticket should have gone up, but twice the price plus genie plus parking plus expensive food plus expensive rooms that aren't much better than a cheap motel etc is just a little bit much, particularly for people making less than six figures.

Not everyone is entitled to a Disney World trip.

 

[New Mouse]

I would argue that Disney wasn’t charging enough back then, those were the early Michael Eisner years when he was still picking up a lot of broken pieces, Disney was run extremely poor prior to him and frank wells arriving, and that all started to change when they took the helm. There is a steep difference in price, but with everything Disney has added over the years, I would say there’s good reason to charge more. I never find the ticket price comparison to be valid, there are way to many variables to be considered. Universal charged $2.50 per ticket back in the sixties, but no one brings that up on these boards

You can't in any reality justify $150 today or any time in the near future for Epcot, AK or DHS.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Not everyone is entitled to a Disney World trip.

there's the word, "entitled". that word is thrown around way too much.

No one is claiming anyone is entitled to a trip to disney.

I do wish disney was a little more pragmatic with their advertising though, it does put parents in a tough spot and i do feel for the parent that cant afford to take their kid to disney at least once.

There was a time we could justify a trip to disney over a trip to the beach our mountains for a week, and the people that go to those places year after year because they "cant afford disney" were always shocked when we told him how much our trips were. That's just not the case anymore.

We havent been priced out, we can afford it, but its just lost the value for us, but we dont feel entitled to a disney vacation.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

You can't in any reality justify $150 today or any time in the near future for Epcot, AK or DHS.

I don’t see why not. Six flags New England, where I am closest to, was charging $70 per adult per day prior to the pandemic, and They aren’t even close to the same weight class as Disney. I have more of a problem with hotel pricing, but even then, there are literally hundreds of less expensive options right off property.

unfortunately I think that price is relative to where you come from in the country, in New England we make more, but everything costs more so it’s almost a wash. Disney doesn’t seem exorbitant for us compared to what we already pay here. Now I’m sure to someone down south, Disney seems outrageous

my opinion is that Disney has almost a tiered system based on what you can afford.
tier 1 being this is a oncein a lifetime luxury, that you will probably have to stay off property, eat outside the parks/ quick serve locations, and skip out on any extras, ie genie plus, dinner shows, parties, ect.
Tier 2 being able to afford to stay in the parks, and splurge on some of the extras.
Tier 3 being able to afford pretty much everything Disney is offering

I would say there’s an option for everyone, or at least most. What I hear on these boards is that everyone wants access to the 3rd tier, and they don’t like that Disney has charged more making it less attainable.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I don’t see why not. Six flags New England, where I am closest to, was charging $70 per adult per day prior to the pandemic, and They aren’t even close to the same weight class as Disney. I have more of a problem with hotel pricing, but even then, there are literally hundreds of less expensive options right off property.

unfortunately I think that price is relative to where you come from in the country, in New England we make more, but everything costs more so it’s almost a wash. Disney doesn’t seem exorbitant for us compared to what we already pay here. Now I’m sure to someone down south, Disney seems outrageous

my opinion is that Disney has almost a tiered system based on what you can afford.
tier 1 being this is a oncein a lifetime luxury, that you will probably have to stay off property, eat outside the parks/ quick serve locations, and skip out on any extras, ie genie plus, dinner shows, parties, ect.
Tier 2 being able to afford to stay in the parks, and splurge on some of the extras.
Tier 3 being able to afford pretty much everything Disney is offering

I would say there’s an option for everyone, or at least most. What I hear on these boards is that everyone wants access to the 3rd tier, and they don’t like that Disney has charged more making it less attainable.

family of four...im not sure i could ever justify shelling out $600 just to get past the ticket booth for any theme park for one day, especially with the hours they currently have.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

family of four...im not sure i could ever justify shelling out $600 just to get past the ticket booth for any theme park for one day, especially with the hours they currently have.

A park hopper for 7 days equals out to $80 a day per person. All I’m saying is that’s not bad compared to other theme parks