Disgruntled members: What are the DVC-specific issues?

[Sandisw]

Please let’s not get into any discussion or debate about political topics. I don’t want to delete, give warnings, or close the thread.

Thank you.

 

[kilik64]

Florida started it. The largest business in state had to respond to a zero win situation.

No, they didn't need to respond. Just like tons of other companies that didn't feel the need to.

 

[BamaGuy44]

1000% agree. I understand others have a different view and I that is fine, but I do get bothered when owners like us have made choices to accept things as they are and adjust to then have it implied…not in this thread or anyone in particular…that we are being walked on or apologizing for Disney.

We just make a choice to deal with Disney and DVC in a different way. But, as I mentioned earlier, I do think there is a lot with Disney that one needs to evaluate before even considering DVC because while they are connected in many ways, in other ways they are not.

So, with this thread it does make sense people are sharing frustration areas.

Definitely. It's good for people to share their frustrations, especially since OP asked. We have our own threshold for this stuff. I wouldn't presume to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't be annoyed by

 

[Brian Noble]

a complex strategy requiring an incantation and twirling three cats in a gunny sack over your head while facing north.

I knew I was doing something wrong

Remember: it's true North, not magnetic North.

One of the biggest issues is no APs for sale.

This can be a blessing in disguise.

I was bummed about this, because I had a two-week stay mid-late this March, and had planned another 5-night trip during F&W in October, and another week-long stay in early March next year. An AP would have been perfect.

Instead, I bought a 10-day WDW ticket, and started looking for other things to do. I saw 311 live at House of Blues ($30 on the secondary market), visited Typhoon Lagoon, and bought the Sea World/Busch platinum pass on a 20% off promotion they were running.

In the Modern Vernacular, the 311 show absolutely slapped. Sea World's food festival was as good or better than Plants & Food & Wine at Epcot, and the sampler lanyard was a great deal. I also got to power-ride Mako for an hour with nothing more than a station wait.

Who says I'm too old for rock and roll and roller coasters?

I went to Tampa to help my mom drive home from her "snowbird" condo last week, and took her to Busch Gardens on one of my bring-a-friend-free tickets for their food festival (not as good as Sea World's but not bad.) We caught the concert, which wasn't in our wheelhouse but fun nonetheless. I even got a couple of new-to-me coaster credits.

We're going to New Orleans instead of Epcot for good food in October. Next March we might go back to WDW, and that will cost a little more than an AP would, but not much. Or, we might go to Orlando and do Sea World and Universal---my Sea World AP will still be good. We might even go to Disneyland Paris at the Marriott there on an II exchange, and Anaheim is in play using my Wyndham points as well.

I'm sure I'll have fun, and all told I will probably spend about the same either way.

In my opinion, human beings that generate more 'I' driven statements and 'me' centered thought patterns have more trouble adapting to anything that doesn't fit their narrow worldview

"Selfishness—self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles"
-- Anonymous

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

One thing I really don't like is how breakage isn't disclosed. With availability so tight I'd like to know how many and when rooms are being taken.

 

[Leight19]

For me the dvc product has been great and at end of day that’s most important for why we own. I will say lately there has been some product issues I haven’t seen listed so will add those first.
1) Delays to refurb schedules and poor condition if some resorts (BRV delay is inexcusable at this point)
2) Late release of rooms, some threads here highlight dvc has struggled to deliver room on time and some even mentioned being directly told hotel side is prioritized. We pay a lot of money to run resorts and do not believe they are meeting their requirements recently,

The next bucket of issue which I think is biggest issue is the management of dvc has made moves that breed distrust. They are legally required to operate in our best interest but 2 of last 3 years they used creative math to inflate point charts. As someone mentioned one year they fudged the lock off premium and another not mentioned is last year they fudged the seasons to create additional points. Both of these scenarios ended up being walked back when members caught and campaigned but we shouldn’t have to audit management legally required to operate in our best interest. Add in the issues mentioned about wait times and website issues and member services deserves it’s bad reputation.

Next bucket of things is the degradation of direct benefits and moves Disney is making to undercut the resale market. This is area where at least Disney acting to maximize profits isn’t an ethical issue but it’s still frustrating they went over a year selling contracts that listed benefits that weren’t active and the lack of these benefits directly undecuts value of direct (id only buy resale if we were to start over today).

Last thing I’d say for why dvc members are upset is the totality of moves Disney has made recently that has all guest types generally displeased. I don’t have specifics not listed here but looking at review sites show not just the hard core dvc fans but also average guests have noticed the degraded value of Disney.

 

[Breems]

Thank you everyone for the valuable feedback so far!

Definitely understand the AP issue, although it probably won't be an issue for us since we'll vacation annually or biennially. Sounds like the technical issues are hit-or-miss. We would buy direct, so that seems to work in our favor.

This thread has been a nice sigh of relief for us. I think I extrapolated some recent negativity into a picture of mass rioting and pitchforks, whereas many of you have shared a lot of positivity. I'm also comforted by the opinions of newer members since we identify more with those expectations than the folks who have been going since the 70s (I'm sure I'd be upset too in that situation).

We haven't seen any deal-breakers in this thread. We still have an insatiable thirst for Disney and have reached the point of being able to share that with our kids, so I think we'll be able to refocus on the more exciting research of where to buy and how many points.

 

[BamaGuy44]

We haven't seen any deal-breakers in this thread. We still have an insatiable thirst for Disney and have reached the point of being able to share that with our kids, so I think we'll be able to refocus on the more exciting research of where to buy and how many points.

Exciting! Nothing like reliving those Disney memories through your kids’ eyes. We did it with our son, and now we’re about to start the cycle again with our sweet granddaughter. Her first trip will be next fall and I don’t think my wife has been as excited for a trip ever!

We’ll be able to all stay together in a 2 BR villa we could never afford if not for DVC. There’s still plenty of magic at Disney, good luck finding the perfect contract(s)!

 

[BeachClub2014]

We haven't seen any deal-breakers in this thread. We still have an insatiable thirst for Disney and have reached the point of being able to share that with our kids, so I think we'll be able to refocus on the more exciting research of where to buy and how many points.

Good for you all! You will find a lot of great information and opinions on where someone "should" buy and for how many points. Have fun with that research!

 

[zavandor]

Since the OP has asked for reasons members look less satisfied than in the past, I'm going only to list the reasons why I wouldn't buy right now. Since I'm not selling (yet) and I'm on a DVC specific forum it is evident for me the positives are (still) more than the negatives.

The main issue is value. I bought my contracts in 2012 and 2013 and paid $50 per point for a SSR contract and I have a blue card. I cannot use my points for cruises and other exchanges, but I don't care because the point cost is irrational, I would never use the points that way.
At the time, buying DVC was equivalent to paying slightly more than a Value hotel. My previous stays at WDW were offsite or in a value, so I bought to upgrade my vacations, get more value for my money. Now I stay in Deluxe hotels spending what I would have paid for a Value hotel. Great bargain.
Not anymore. Resale costs nearly 3 times that and if I want a blue card I'd have to pay 4 times that. DVC saves money only when comparing to deluxe hotel, which I would never pay out of pocket. I could afford it, but for the money there are more interesting vacations.
The higher cost changes the risk equation. Lose the points one year and you're spending more than renting. Lose the points twice and you're probably losing money. I don't think the savings are worth the risk anymore.


The second reason is that Disney has demonstrated they're willing to do anything to gain money at the expense of the members. I'm not talking about profit. I've always said Disney has perfected the art of extracting money and make you happy in doing so.
I'm talking about 3 disgusting episodes:
- the 2020 point charts, in which they tried to increase the lock-off premium, diminishing the value of points we purchased in order to have more rooms to rent for cash
- the 2022 point charts in which they tried to create extra points playing with seasons and when Easter falls
- at some point they started keeping the refund of property taxes instead of giving it back to resale purchaser
We're not talking about offering a good service and being paid a high rate for it. I'm talking about questionable things, allegedly illegal.


The third reason is that a WDW vacation has changed drastically. Some may be due to Covid (or better, to the failure by Disney to restore services to pre-Covid level) but Genie+ is one of the main reasons and that is here to stay. It's not that we now have to pay for something that was included, if I had to pay for the old FP+ system I'd happily do so (it would just be a price increase by another name). G+ is convoluted, stressful, bugged, irrational. I don't want to pay $15, wake up at 7am just to fail to book what I want because the app is bugged or other have been faster. My latest vacation, last December, has been the least pleasant I've ever had at WDW. I bought DVC in order to visit WDW and still have a relaxing experience, if I cannot have that, then I'd rather visit every 4 or 5 years, instead of almost yearly. At that point DVC is useless.

 

[ITGirl50]

I'm looking to purchase DVC after researching for a few years.

Unfortunately, it seems I'm jumping in at a historically low point in terms of member experience. There are daily posts from members selling or cautioning that they wouldn't buy now.

I'm trying to distinguish current DVC-specific issues from more general issues. I'm empathetic to the latter (e.g., prices, Genie+, etc) but am considering them separately.

Here are the pain points I've gathered:

1. 50% borrowing restriction.
2. Low availability
3. Technical issues with the member website

What else am I missing? What would you distinguish as disturbing, long-term trends as opposed to (hopefully) ephemeral COVID aftershock? The items above seem like they could classify as the latter which gives me a little hope in keeping my dream alive.

The member website is okay, but several things require you to call instead of using the site (like renewing annual passes), and wait times are long. We are holding out that things will turn around and it will be fun again. We own too many points to bail now.

Not being able to buy APs (renewal only). We have them so it doesn’t affect us.
No discount on the AP renewal any longer.
Reallocation of points, now the times we go costs more points.
Paid fast pass system. With all kinds of tech problems.
Availability of rooms at smaller resorts at 11 month window.
No Magical Express
Broken/down rides (TOT has been running half capacity for months)
Park reservations required
Housekeeping problems and maintenance issues

 

[robinb]

My biggest complaint with DVC is when they created two types of members: blue card members and white card members. This created a class system where white card members are second class citizens. They are not eligible to participate in most of the DVC perks afforded to blue card members. Want an AP discount? You’ll need a blue card. Want to attend Moonlight Magic? You’ll need a blue card. Etc, etc.

Worst of all, it was all done to line Disney’s pocket by encouraging direct sales over resales. If you want all those perks we just sold you on, you’ll need to spend thousands of dollars more with us directly to get a coveted blue card. Those dirty resales don’t get them. Yet another 4-fingered money grab.

FTR, I own a resale that was grandfathered in when the change was made and a direct contract. I am a blue card member who is still mad for my white card brethren.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Worst of all, it was all done to line Disney’s pocket by encouraging direct sales over resales.

But isn't that really the whole purpose of Disney Vacation Development, Inc.? To sell points directly?

 

[kilik64]

But isn't that really the whole purpose of Disney Vacation Development, Inc.? To sell points directly?

Yup can’t have moldy old points without new ones being sold.

Think most peoples frustration with whole thing is how convoluted it’s gotten over the years for blue card and what the ramifications in the future will be with the resale restrictions on riv points and possible other new resorts.

 

[robinb]

But isn't that really the whole purpose of Disney Vacation Development, Inc.? To sell points directly?

Of course. They did not have to create two classes of members to do it. The vast majority of points they sell are for the new resorts and those resorts are only available through them. It was unnecessary to tell people who buy resale at older resorts that they are not full-fledged members of the “club”.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Think most peoples frustration with whole thing is how convoluted it’s gotten over the years for blue card and what the ramifications in the future will be with the resale restrictions on riv points and possible other new resorts.

Sure, I can definitely understand where folks could be confused over the whole blue card thing. It all depends on when the points were bought, how many were bought, and how they were bought. I get it.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Of course. They did not have to create two classes of members to do it. The vast majority of points they sell are for the new resorts and those resorts are only available through them. It was unnecessary to tell people who buy resale at older resorts that they are not full-fledged members of the “club”.

Except of course the "new resorts" that DVD is selling can also be purchased resale so those points are available on the open market, not just through direct purchase. I'm not defending the decision to bifurcate membership, but I can understand and appreciate the underlying business model that drove the decision. But that's just me, perhaps.

 

[smmora]

But it encourages people to buy direct instead of resale.

I bought resale knowing I'd get a white card, when VGF went on sale I bought 150 to get the blue card and have unrestricted points.

The fact they have those two things in place are why I choose direct over resale. Would I rather have saved money and had the same benefits? Yes, but that would be a bad business decision for them. It was transparent with all 3 purchases I knew what I was getting, if they kept it a secret and surprised you with it that would be different

 

[jo-jo]

This isn't DVC directly, but since someone mentioned a DVC trip means relaxing and getting up at 7 to do genie doesn't.

Does anyone know why disney didn't set up genie just as paid FP. You buy it the week, at 60 days you pick out what rides. And then maybe at 7 am day of, you could pick one more.

For myself , I'd be more incline to buy it knowing I had rides in the bag. Now I'd never buy it, cause I'd have a heart attack trying find stuff at 7 am.

 

[Redheadprincess]

This created a class system where white card members are second class citizens.

This is really evident on FB groups by the members themselves. It can get downright nasty, especially if a white card member gets a dining discount from a cast member and posts about it. What many blue card members don't take until consideration is they may have bought 25 points at $50 pp at $1250 to get their blue card less than 10 years ago. Now the minimum buy in is about $30000. Some blue card members think they are entitled and better but Disney frequently changed what they decided qualified you for a blue card, that really does not have great perks right now anyway, but preyed on FOMO, mostly in my opinion, but it works.