Venting…dentist office stuff.

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Remind me again what's wrong with referring to women as ladies? Sorry, I really don't know. It falls on the ear so much more pleasantly than "female", which makes me cringe. And neither boys or girls is appropriate for anyone over the age of 18, IMO.

It's because the equivalent was not used not that lady itself was necessarily used. The only post I can find in this thread referencing that is your previous one where you said (bolding mine)

"If there's a single person, we put the name in either the first position, if it's a man, or the second position if it's a lady. In our context, there's no reason to list children or any other household members."

When you used man and instead of saying woman (which is the equivalent) you said lady. Not necessarily something that on the surface sounds bad nor probably not something you were trying to confer an opinion about but there has been a history of not using the equivalent and instead using other words that tend to carry connotations (not always bad not always good just connotations). And with respects to the grander topic that the thread became there tends to be more instances of how women are referred to just by using different words.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The tax records on our house list us as the equivalent of Joe Blow and Jane Doe, as I kept my birth surname when we married. The house is jointly titled in both names, and alphabetically, my surname comes first, but DH's name is first on the house title, presumably because the title company drafted the deed that way. All of our property tax information for real and personal property is filed based on that deed.

You want to know why I care? For starters, the HOURS off my life I lose every 2 years when my vehicle registration (and sometimes driver license) comes up for renewal. My state has allowed online renewal for years now, but we have to prove that we have paid our property tax before licenses and tags can be renewed. Normally for online renewal, the software checks the property tax rolls and verifies so that you can go forward. However, because my DH' name comes first on the house title and is not followed by a comma, the software does not find my surname in a search. I can even put in the address of the house into the tax records, but again, the index does not contain my name, and it won't verify except by the human eye. DH can do all his renewals online, but I have to go in person and stand in line and show them our property tax receipts. (And yes, I know it's a software bug, but it exists because the software was created with a field entry design that assumed that there would always be only one surname on a property deed, and the state says it would too expensive to change.)

I also carry our family's health insurance, but our doctors do have decent software, and I'm listed as the primary on all medical accounts for that reason. The full names of every covered member of the family are on all records, and all are indexed properly as well.

Wouldn't the easier thing to do is change how the deed was done? I get where you're coming from though.

I'm pretty sure you're in MO and while I do know some things of how it is done there (honestly I prefer KS it's way easier and simpler) is there not a way to adjust how the deed is written?

I looked at how our home is deeded and there's no comma in there. It just has owner 1 and owner 2 listed. I have a hyphenated last name and technically my car is titled still in my maiden name with my home titled in my married name. So long as my insurance company has electronically sent information to the state I get a PIN to renew my car tags online. I know KS is different because we pay ahead and using your last name for when you renew (like mine is in April, my husband is in August) while MO pays a different way for car tags but I wouldn't have thought MO was behind KS in terms of software lol considering how poor KS software has been over the years with the DMV despite paying a "DMV Modernization Fee" for years on our auto property tax as a fee.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I kept my own name. Married many years, put two kids through school, working professionals, and I can say the whole name thing has never really been an issue for us. MA has always been progressive, not sure if that’s part of it. Socially it’s not unusual for me to be called by my married family name, and I answer to it and don’t feel the need to correct anyone unless it’s critical. Sometimes DH gets mail as ”Mr. [my last name]” and he smiles, as he loves and appreciates my birth family name, which is nice. It’s interesting to see how everyone feels about it.

 

[kymom99]

I kept my own name. Married many years, put two kids through school, working professionals, and I can say the whole name thing has never really been an issue for us. MA has always been progressive, not sure if that’s part of it. Socially it’s not unusual for me to be called by my married family name, and I answer to it and don’t feel the need to correct anyone unless it’s critical. Sometimes DH gets mail as ”Mr. [my last name]” and he smiles, as he loves and appreciates my birth family name, which is nice. It’s interesting to see how everyone feels about it.

I sometimes wish I had kept my maiden name. My niece married a couple years ago and she kept her family name. She said it would have been a real hassle to change her name on all her credentials, since she is a NP and was before the wedding.

I really noticed how inconvenient it can be to be a married woman when we went on a cruise without passports. Since I had been married, divorced, and married again, the paperwork I had to provide was nothing short of insanity. I needed a birth certificate, my first marriage license, divorce decree, and second marriage license. And a photo ID. My husband needed his birth certificate and a photo ID.

 

[TCRAIG]

I kept my own name. Married many years, put two kids through school, working professionals, and I can say the whole name thing has never really been an issue for us. MA has always been progressive, not sure if that’s part of it. Socially it’s not unusual for me to be called by my married family name, and I answer to it and don’t feel the need to correct anyone unless it’s critical. Sometimes DH gets mail as ”Mr. [my last name]” and he smiles, as he loves and appreciates my birth family name, which is nice. It’s interesting to see how everyone feels about it.

Married almost 43 years and I too kept my name…which at the time, was actually illegal in this state…why did I keep my name…cause it’s MINE - that’s why…

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Married almost 43 years and I too kept my name…which at the time, was actually illegal in this state…why did I keep my name…cause it’s MINE - that’s why…

Exactly!

 

[denisenh]

I went to the dentist today for some work (as opposed to a cleaning). I’m not fond of this office, been a patient for ~2 years, since our previous dentist retired. DH also goes to this dentist. For what it is worth, we are both on my insurance.

They got a new computer system recently. The receipt I got today clear listed DH as the account holder and our address in the header info.

i was merely listed as a patient. First name only. (DH and I have different last names.)

They gave me two different reasons why…1st was-oh, you must be on your husband’s insurance. Umm No, we are on my insurance. The other explanation they gave me was my DH is considered by them to be the head of the household. This explanation did not fly with me either, as this is 2022, not 1952..

I asked then about having a separate account, and…that is harder for us to handle, since both of us are on the same insurance.

Might be time for a different dentist. I’m not overly happy about staying, but finding a new dentist is also frustrating.

thanks for listening to me vent!

Yes, it is frustrating to find a new dentist. And those are lame excuses for listing your husband as the account holder and you as a patient on his account. You should either be listed on your own account or as the account holder and your husband as a second patient on your account. It just makes more sense. I wouldn't leave a dentist for that reason alone but I agree that it should be corrected . Maybe ask a different employee to fix it? It seems that with the difficulty that a lot of businesses are having with hiring , they tend to go with less skilled or less service attentive staff. Maybe that has occured in this instance?

 

[cobright]

our internal practice is just that so those reviewing others work (check for accuracy and compliance) can quickly and easily follow the flow of income and expenses to each person, and then be sure any deductions/credits are properly allocated in the instances it's required to be.

I’m sorry, but that’s either gibberish or an admission that your company used data entry order to articulate important information. Any competent modern CPA records person’s income and expenses in the form of actual data.

I can hear someone screaming, “Of course we missed that deduction, someone listed the wife’s name first! I mean, her name was Chris and his name was Stacy and she was the only one of them employed, so… could happen to anyone. “

If someone is using the term Head of Household, than I would expect that they are following the IRS definition,

Why would you expect this? The IRS uses the term without regard to gender and no one’s likely upset with the application of a tax filing status, but the term is used far more broadly than that. You don’t expect every corporation to align themselves with the IRS with regards to all of the words formally defined in irs guides do you? Because the IRS really only has control over tax filing issues.

I’m curious if you all also are offended at wedding invitations addressed to Mr. and Mrs.?

I assume you mean to say, addressed to Mr. and Mrs. {lastname}. And I wouldn’t find it offensive as long as there were actually a Mr. and Mrs. {lastname} at that address.

In the case where the invitation is meant for two people with different last names then addressing it to Mr. and Mrs. {either lastname} would be erroneous and entirely inappropriate. I certainly wouldn’t respond to anything written by someone as uncouth as this.

 

[cobright]

Here’s an easily observable natural experiment on gender assumptions, spend any real time eating out and you will notice when there is a man and woman dining there is a presumption that the man receives the check.

A fair rebuttal is that it is just far more common that the man is taking the woman out and, as is often customary, will be paying. But pay attention further to who the charge slip, receipt,and/ or change is brought to in those instances where the woman hands the check and her credit card to the server.

Over the course of 20 meals, on one vacation, where my wife handed the bill and her credit card to the server, the charge slip and HER card were returned to me by that same server 15 times.

There are countless iterations of this experiment, published as well as journalistic and they support the idea that there is nothing random about gender assumptions, not once the sample size gets large enough.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Remind me again what's wrong with referring to women as ladies? Sorry, I really don't know. It falls on the ear so much more pleasantly than “female”, which makes me cringe. And neither boys or girls is appropriate for anyone over the age of 18, IMO.

Why does female make you cringe?

I have no problem with women, ladies, or female, when used in proper context.

 

[Moliphino]

Why does female make you cringe?

I have no problem with women, ladies, or female, when used in proper context.

Females is used a lot by incel/misogynist sorts.

 

[TAX GUY]

I’m sorry, but that’s either gibberish or an admission that your company used data entry order to articulate important information. Any competent modern CPA records person’s income and expenses in the form of actual data.

I can hear someone screaming, “Of course we missed that deduction, someone listed the wife’s name first! I mean, her name was Chris and his name was Stacy and she was the only one of them employed, so… could happen to anyone. “

Are you also a tax professional? Use professional tax software to prepare tax returns? Review coworkers work to double check for accuracy, properly allocated deductions and/or credits based on their situation and forms required? Have your work reviewed for those same properly allocated deductions and/or credits, accuracy and correct forms based on each tax returns filings?

Lets try reading ALL the replies within the thread before jumping to conclusions and assumptions and sounding foolish with replies like that.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Females is used a lot by incel/misogynist sorts.

Interesting. I have never heard that. Also was not familiar with the term incel and had to look it up. What a shame that they have co-opted a perfectly fine word.

 

[rigs32]

Interesting. I have never heard that. Also was not familiar with the term incel and had to look it up. What a shame that they have co-opted a perfectly fine word.

As discussed above, it's often using words that are not the equivalent of each other. Male/female, lady/gentleman, man/woman. When you use the pairs together, I don't notice it at all. But when someone choose to use one word for a man and a different word for a woman (which happens a LOT), there's an inference of meaning.

 

[AppleDumpling]

As discussed above, it's often using words that are not the equivalent of each other. Male/female, lady/gentleman, man/woman. When you use the pairs together, I don't notice it at all. But when someone choose to use one word for a man and a different word for a woman (which happens a LOT), there's an inference of meaning.

Yes, I understand that. However, I think it’s unfortunate if female is now being used in a derogatory manner. To me, female is strictly descriptive, a biological definition, which grammatically is used as an adjective, while woman is the corresponding noun (for a female adult).

 

[shh]

Here’s an easily observable natural experiment on gender assumptions, spend any real time eating out and you will notice when there is a man and woman dining there is a presumption that the man receives the check.

A fair rebuttal is that it is just far more common that the man is taking the woman out and, as is often customary, will be paying. But pay attention further to who the charge slip, receipt,and/ or change is brought to in those instances where the woman hands the check and her credit card to the server.

Over the course of 20 meals, on one vacation, where my wife handed the bill and her credit card to the server, the charge slip and HER card were returned to me by that same server 15 times.

There are countless iterations of this experiment, published as well as journalistic and they support the idea that there is nothing random about gender assumptions, not once the sample size gets large enough.

That is so interesting, but so opposite my own experience. I wonder if that's region based - were you traveling to a more conservative/traditional area in Latin America, certain parts of US or Europe?

I almost always pay the check, as I use diff credit cards based upon incentives and my DH has no clue what I'm doing. lol

I have to say that has never once happened to me in 20+ years we've been married and we dine out a lot. Whomever gives the server the credit card gets the slip and receipt back. I'd also say 99 times out of 100, the check is placed between us or at edge of table....RARELY in front of my husband.

But I'm pretty assertive re: ordering, requesting items for myself, vs my husband doing it for me - maybe someone quieter is treated diff? (Not saying that's the right thing to do...just wondering if any of the above factors in?)

Either way, I'd definitely feel a bit annoyed if that happened.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is so interesting, but so opposite my own experience. I wonder if that's region based - were you traveling to a more conservative/traditional area in Latin America, certain parts of US or Europe?

I almost always pay the check, as I use diff credit cards based upon incentives and my DH has no clue what I'm doing. lol

I have to say that has never once happened to me in 20+ years we've been married and we dine out a lot. Whomever gives the server the credit card gets the slip and receipt back. I'd also say 99 times out of 100, the check is placed between us or at edge of table....RARELY in front of my husband.

But I'm pretty assertive re: ordering, requesting items for myself, vs my husband doing it for me - maybe someone quieter is treated diff? (Not saying that's the right thing to do...just wondering if any of the above factors in?)

Either way, I'd definitely feel a bit annoyed if that happened.

Most times it's placed back on the table or handed right back to the correct person, but there's been times I've handed the waiter/waitress the card with the receipt and it's either placed next to my husband rather than next to me or given to him personally even if I was the one who paid. There's even been times where I've been out with the in-laws when my husband was on field assignments and I would be paying for their meals and the card was handed back to my step-father-in-law or placed more towards him rather than to me.

I don't think quiet has much to do with it, my mother-in-law is certainly not quiet lol but I've seen it done to her as well and I'm polite but wouldn't ever defer to my husband on meal ordering or the like. I would presuppose it's either an honest mistake no harm no foul intended (they do tend to have a lot of turn over in tables and such) or just a gender norm assumption it's the man's money.

It hasn't happened as frequently as the PP so my guess is they were vacationing where the stereotype was very strong but I can't deny that it has happened in my very own area to me at times.

 

[Mokat76]

The only thing I care about is whether my dentist and staff are providing good service. The rest is not a hill I choose to die on.

 

[Turn the Page]

I sometimes wish I had kept my maiden name. My niece married a couple years ago and she kept her family name. She said it would have been a real hassle to change her name on all her credentials, since she is a NP and was before the wedding.

I really noticed how inconvenient it can be to be a married woman when we went on a cruise without passports. Since I had been married, divorced, and married again, the paperwork I had to provide was nothing short of insanity. I needed a birth certificate, my first marriage license, divorce decree, and second marriage license. And a photo ID. My husband needed his birth certificate and a photo ID.

Married almost 43 years and I too kept my name…which at the time, was actually illegal in this state…why did I keep my name…cause it’s MINE - that’s why…

I hyphenated my name when I married and yes, changing everything is a massive pain in the rear. I also find it irritating when we have reservations or something like that trying to figure out if it's under my name or his can be confusing sometimes. I did wonder if it would ever cause issues with the kids, since my name differs from thiers, but no, it has never been an issue.

My parents recently got divorced and my mother took her maiden name back, after 40 years of having a different last name. At that point it seems absurd to change it but whatever.

Females is used a lot by incel/misogynist sorts.

Yep. It's usually used in a derogatory fashion. Gal also makes me cringe.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

The only thing I care about is whether my dentist and staff are providing good service. The rest is not a hill I choose to die on.

We all need to choose our own hills, and I can respect your choice. This may seem to be such a tiny detail to you that it just doesn't seem worth your time. We all have to decide where to spend our energy and we don't all have to spend it in the same place.

But please consider giving a passing appreciative nod to those who do choose this hill, or other hills like it. Minor annoyances can actually represent much larger issues, a fact that has been pointed out by many on this thread.

The woman who takes the time to challenge a dental office which doesn't recognize the actual holder of the family insurance, is the kind of woman who bought you the rights you now hold. Women who challenged the norms of their times - to vote, to get a well paying job, to generally be acknowledged by the greater society as a full human being - were always considered by the broader society, including most women, to be making a big deal out of nothing.

No one handed women the rights we now enjoy. Those rights were won by tired women who were ridiculed for throwing themselves against hills that most men and women saw as unimportant. And then watched as other women, who didn't notice how hard it all was, sail though doors that were battered open as if nothing at all had happened.

It's exhausting to take on a mortgage company here, and a dental office there, when you've got kids to get home and dinner to put on the table. Not everyone needs to do it. But I appreciate anyone who takes on this kind of battle, big and small, because they bought me a better place in the world than my grandmother knew, and might even buy my granddaughters the chance to live without hills.