Has Disney’s DAS Pass Become A DASaster?

[juuuliebeth]

I don't think anyone on this thread has called for the elimination of the DAS program like several of you are claiming. I think most people "criticizing" are just pointing out the flaws.

I frequently read the comment that DAS users are waiting the same amount, if not more, as regular standby guests. That is just really, really not true. Without even taking into account the two attractions reserved in advance (which I frequently read that stay active past their hour window), DAS users have the ability to book their spot in line as soon as they enter the park. Standby users don't start their first wait of the day as soon as they walk in the park. Once the DAS user has tapped into the attraction, they can start "waiting" in line for their next attraction. Again, a standby visitor isn't waiting in line while they're riding the previous attraction. DAS users can have a snack, watch a parade, ride another attraction, visit a character all while "waiting in line"....these are all things that non-DAS users would like to do as well. To say there is not an advantage is kind of befuddling. Yes, we all know there needs to be a DAS program in place. It just makes sense that there should be a real verification process in place. DAS is providing a superior experience than what is offered to a traditional non-Genie+, Individual Lightening Lane paying guest (to be honest, it's better than Genie+ because you can go on the same attraction multiple times and DAS return times don't run out).

Look at the daily videos coming out of people having physical brawls in the parks. Clearly, there are plenty of folks in the parks that aren't well behaved. I think its safe to assume there are cheaters using the DAS.

You seem to be more worried about what's "fair" for abled people instead of what's "fair" for disabled people. (I put quotes around "fair" because there is no true fairness when it comes to disability.) Of course there are flaws with the system, but I can't think of a single accommodation that wouldn't be seen as "unfair" to abled people in the end.

Please refer to my last posted comment about the inherent ableism in requesting proof of disability. There are cheaters of the system, yes, but that's not the fault of disabled people. Making their lives harder so that you can feel better about their existence is awful. And if hearing this makes you uncomfortable, then you really have no idea just how cruel the world is for disabled people.

 

[notatallmagic]

How big is your "crew"? We saw plenty of people who were just small groups (2-4 people NBD) - it was the large groups where it was very clear that not everyone was a family member that caught our attention. And, sorry to say, we also saw plenty of groups where the person who the DAS was for, never entered the queue. I mean, why would they if they don't want to ride? Their group doesn't have to wait in line - they're going to be right back. Oh, but wait a minute...the DAS isn't for them...is it?

There seems to be a common sentiment that this is all-or-nothing; that couldn't be further from the truth. The people who are cheating the system aren't as invisible as they seem to think they are. You may not be able to stop all the cheating, but you can make some big improvements, and the only people who would lose out would be the cheaters.

Curious how you think you can tell who's a family? Do all families look alike? Or act a certain way? Do you think only families travel together? And FYI, the DAS holder DOES have to tap into the ride, or the group cannot ride. So not sure what you thought you saw.

 

[notatallmagic]

I don't think anyone on this thread has called for the elimination of the DAS program like several of you are claiming. I think most people "criticizing" are just pointing out the flaws.

I frequently read the comment that DAS users are waiting the same amount, if not more, as regular standby guests. That is just really, really not true. Without even taking into account the two attractions reserved in advance (which I frequently read that stay active past their hour window), DAS users have the ability to book their spot in line as soon as they enter the park. Standby users don't start their first wait of the day as soon as they walk in the park. Once the DAS user has tapped into the attraction, they can start "waiting" in line for their next attraction. Again, a standby visitor isn't waiting in line while they're riding the previous attraction. DAS users can have a snack, watch a parade, ride another attraction, visit a character all while "waiting in line"....these are all things that non-DAS users would like to do as well. To say there is not an advantage is kind of befuddling. Yes, we all know there needs to be a DAS program in place. It just makes sense that there should be a real verification process in place. DAS is providing a superior experience than what is offered to a traditional non-Genie+, Individual Lightening Lane paying guest (to be honest, it's better than Genie+ because you can go on the same attraction multiple times and DAS return times don't run out).

Look at the daily videos coming out of people having physical brawls in the parks. Clearly, there are plenty of folks in the parks that aren't well behaved. I think its safe to assume there are cheaters using the DAS.

"DAS users can have a snack, watch a parade, ride another attraction, visit a character all while "waiting in line"....these are all things that non-DAS users would like to do as well. To say there is not an advantage is kind of befuddling"

How very ignorant. CLEARLY you've not used DAS; the pre-booked attractions DON'T stay active after the hour. And I've waited on hold for DAYS to pre-book them, because they are necessary for us to be able to enjoy the parks at all.

You're assuming that everyone utilizing this program can just wander around enjoying this "advantage" during that wait time. And maybe some days we can. On most other days, we might be huddled in a bathroom, administering medications or suffering through horrific symptoms. Or we might be in the First Aid station for treatment, or siting or lying down to avoid passing out or suffering symptoms. Or we might be eating or drinking due to a medical necessity (not for a fun snack like "normal" people). Or we might be in the shade because direct sun or heat makes us sicker or causes serious health issues. Or we might be somewhere quiet, due to emotional issues or PTSD.

The DAS accommodations are NOT for fun, or to avoid wait times, or take advantage. They are NECESSARY for many people to be able to experience in a (typically limited) sense - even with the DAS - what YOU take for granted every single day.

You might want to reconsider stating things that aren't true, when you clearly haven't used this system, and don't understand the reason for it. Like the other poster said, check your privilege about an issue you obviously know NOTHING about.

 

[notatallmagic]

As a side comment to those who think that DAS somehow provides an "advantage" - we were multi-year AP holders, pre and post diagnosis for the issue that now necessitates the DAS.

Even though my kids are now older, and can move much faster, and are easily the ages where they should have full-day park stamina, we have NEVER been able to accomplish, even with well thought DAS usage and pre-booked attractions, what we did prior to diagnosis. Not even close.

So, for those who think have a disability and the DAS is somehow this "advantage" - if that were true, then we would obviously be able to do MORE now that we have it. And we don't, despite kids being older and faster - not even close. We have to take more breaks for food and restrooms; we have to carry bags and administer meds; we have to time our rides and attractions around the requirements of the disability; weather conditions can necessitate last minute changes in plans; and sometimes, we just. can't. do. it. At all, even with the DAS.

So much for the theory that DAS provides an advantage - at least anecdotally.

 

[lanejudy]

DAS holders use the line but didn’t pay for access. All other people using the LL paid to use it.

There are actually several ways guests gain access to the Lightning Lane, some are paid but others are free (not just DAS).

• formerly FP/FP+ now Genie+ and ILL$
• Rider swap
• multi-experience passes
• VIP tours
• Club 33
• MAW
• DAS

Whether free or paid, each of these are very different from the others. Just because they all use the same queue does not mean they are same, similar or in anyway comparable offerings.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

The Dis should be ashamed for posting an article that clearly has misstated facts in it, especially about such a polarizing topic.

 

[lookame]

I find whenever someone asks for accomadation for a disability, especially an invisible disability, then someone will be outraged by it, whether it’s someone who is “normal” who doesn’t require accomadations or another who has a disability. Everyone has an opinion about who deserves the das vs who doesn’t. I’ve been bullied and told I need to handle my disease differently and should save das passes for those “who really need it” by both sets of people.

The thing is we don’t know who is lieing vs who isn’t. Does that mean the das system is a disaster? I don’t think so. The cast members are doing the best they can with the information they are allowed to ask for. Some cast members might let whoever calls in that day get one while some might not. No matter what Disney puts in place though it won’t make everyone happy..

 

[SueM in MN]

It’s a fascinating read. However, keep in mind that this lawsuit predates a paid system such as genie+.

quote from the case “Thus, it became more difficult for Disney employees to discern what was appropriate because the guests were able to “essentially work the system to say what they needed to say.” “ That is still the case, whether a GAC or DAS is issued.

another quote: “The wait times would also increase more significantly if the percentage of guests with a DAS increased, a scenario Disney anticipated as more guests learned about the increased benefits, based on similar problems and abuses that developed with the GAC program. Thus, for example, if all DAS guests were given two readmission passes for their party, a 1 % increase in daily DAS users would cause the standby wait time at Seven Dwarfs Mine train to increase by nearly an hour, from 69 minutes to 124 minutes. Similarly, there were significant increases in wait time for the other popular rides.”

The basis of this lawsuit is a comparison of GAC with DAS. But my argument is that just like the system was abused (and Disney proves that it was) so it could be abused again (to what Disney thought was unsustainable with the prior GAC system).

Another quote: “Once Disney’s leadership found out about the results of the GAC Study, they unanimously agreed that Disney “could not continue” with GAC because “it was not sustainable” and was impacting Disney’s business. The Court finds that the documented fraud and abuse of the GAC program led Disney to develop the Disability Access Service (“DAS”) which replaced GAC on October 9, 2013.”

My point is that the DAS system didn’t eliminate fraud and abuse at all. What it did was deincentivize people to try to cheat the system because the system just wasn’t as good anymore. The concern now is that people are once more incentivized to abuse the system again because of the cost of genie+/LL access. Disney proved that people were cheating the system before. Why would anyone think they aren’t doing that again to save money?

« quote from the case “Thus, it became more difficult for Disney employees to discern what was appropriate because the guests were able to “essentially work the system to say what they needed to say.” “ That is still the case, whether a GAC or DAS is issued. »
Not in the way you were apparently thinking. The previous Guest Assistance Card was a physical card with various stamps that could be added, depending on the needs the person reported. Some of the stamps included:
- waiting in a place out of the sun when the wait was in the sun for a significant period
- first row seating
- use a stroller as a wheelchair
- avoid stairs
- use the wheelchair accessible entrance (without a wheelchair; it was not required if the guest had a wheelchair)
- alternate entrance, where available (that was often the exit or later, the Fastpass Entrance)
- immediate access (a green arrow; actually meant for guests on WISH trips, but from what I’ve read of the GAC lawsuits, many of them had that stamp)

The last 2 were the stamps that guests learned what to say to “essentially work the system” to obtain. There were a lot of blogs/posts on the internet that told people exactly what to say to get the ‘most benefits’ (this board did not allow that kind of information to be posted). It was also possible to find sample doctor letters, although Disney staff would usually refuse to look at them. I personally saw guests screaming at CMs in Guest Relations demanding those stamps, often referring to their letter and saying, « my doctor ordered it. » By the end of GAC, it appeared the majority of people had one of those 2 stamps.
I remember seeing a blogpost from a pregnant woman who advised pregnant women to get a letter from their doctor to avoid waiting in lines. On her blog, she also talked about going on all the WDW wild rides without waiting and her ‘hack’ for how to get a GAC allowing it. She also posted about their other trips during the pregnancy, including skiing trips, hiking trips and walking trips around some of the big cities of Europe; some were planned for after their WDW trip.
Because the stamps were confusing and guests would often argue with CMs at ride entrances. CMs sometimes just glanced at the card and treated them all the same.

« a DAS increased, a scenario Disney anticipated as more guests learned about the increased benefits, based on similar problems and abuses that developed with the GAC program. »
This Disney response in the lawsuit was specifically talking about the effect of having to give the plaintiffs immediate access Re-admission passes. Actually, The plaintiffs’ lawyers posted a letter on their website they suggested guests use to request their ‘extra accommodations’, including at least 8 re-admission passes that the letter says the ADA requires Disney give them. As Disney pointed out, giving even 2 per DAS guest would increase wait times.

« example, if all DAS guests were given two readmission passes for their party, a 1 % increase in daily DAS users would cause the standby wait time at Seven Dwarfs Mine train to increase by nearly an hour, from 69 minutes to 124 minutes. Similarly, there were significant increases in wait time for the other popular rides.”
DAS without Re-admit passes wouldn’t increase the wait in line for other guests in the Standby Line - the guests using DAS are waiting a similar time to those in that line, just not in the line.

« system was abused (and Disney proves that it was) so it could be abused again (to what Disney thought was unsustainable with the prior GAC system)….

Another quote: “Once Disney’s leadership found out about the results of the GAC Study, they unanimously agreed that Disney “could not continue” with GAC because “it was not sustainable” and was impacting Disney’s business. »
A large part of the GAC abuse noted in Disney’s GAC study was due to overuse by people who legitimately qualified for GAC. Because there were no restrictions on using GAC, multiple guests were riding the attraction, then getting right back into the Fastpass Line over and over and riding again.

« My point is that the DAS system didn’t eliminate fraud and abuse at all. What it did was deincentivize people to try to cheat the system because the system just wasn’t as good anymore. »
DAS did a lot to address the biggest abuses of GAC.
- there is only one accommodation in DAS; ability to wait outside of the line. So, there’s no more gaming the system to get immediate access stamp
- Guests on WISH trips get a special Genie pass, which is administered thru the WISH organizations and is NOT available at the parks
- DAS started out as a physical card when it began in October 2013, but it pretty quickly went digital and is linked to the guest’s My Disney Experience profile.
Physical GAC cards were sometimes loaned out or even sold on eBay as ‘non-expiring Fastpass cards’. With digital registration, that’s no longer possible
- the name and a photo of the person registered for DAS is linked in their profile and shows up on a screen for the attraction CM when the guest enters the line. So, no riding without the DAS user entering the line.
- People registered for DAS have Friends and Family who are part of their party linked to the DAS in My Disney Experience. Without linking, they can’t be part of a DAS Return Time. The physical cards just had a number, so anyone could be included as long as the number wasn’t exceeded.

 

[DisneyOma]

You're assuming that everyone utilizing this program can just wander around enjoying this "advantage" during that wait time. And maybe some days we can. On most other days, we might be huddled in a bathroom, administering medications or suffering through horrific symptoms. Or we might be in the First Aid station for treatment, or siting or lying down to avoid passing out or suffering symptoms. Or we might be eating or drinking due to a medical necessity (not for a fun snack like "normal" people). Or we might be in the shade because direct sun or heat makes us sicker or causes serious health issues. Or we might be somewhere quiet, due to emotional issues or PTSD.

The DAS accommodations are NOT for fun, or to avoid wait times, or take advantage. They are NECESSARY for many people to be able to experience in a (typically limited) sense - even with the DAS - what YOU take for granted every single day.

You might want to reconsider stating things that aren't true, when you clearly haven't used this system, and don't understand the reason for it. Like the other poster said, check your privilege about an issue you obviously know NOTHING about.

For me, that wait in between has become the perfect time to go to First Aid, request a cot and do my PT and other stuff that helps alleviate the physical aspects of my anxiety.

 

[greeneyedchick]

How big is your "crew"? We saw plenty of people who were just small groups (2-4 people NBD) - it was the large groups where it was very clear that not everyone was a family member that caught our attention. And, sorry to say, we also saw plenty of groups where the person who the DAS was for, never entered the queue. I mean, why would they if they don't want to ride? Their group doesn't have to wait in line - they're going to be right back. Oh, but wait a minute...the DAS isn't for them...is it?

There seems to be a common sentiment that this is all-or-nothing; that couldn't be further from the truth. The people who are cheating the system aren't as invisible as they seem to think they are. You may not be able to stop all the cheating, but you can make some big improvements, and the only people who would lose out would be the cheaters.

That shouldn't be allowed. I know that at Sea World and Universal, the person who has the DAS pass must be going on the ride with the other members of their family. Family members cannot use the pass without the person it is for.

 

[gottalovepluto]

That was an opinion piece, an ill informed, harmful one at that. I'm surprised and disappointed it was published.

This is something that belongs in r/deardiary, not being published on the DIS. I hope the DIS powers that be will consider pulling the article.

 

[jo-jo]

That shouldn't be allowed. I know that at Sea World and Universal, the person who has the DAS pass must be going on the ride with the other members of their family. Family members cannot use the pass without the person it is for.

My DH and I used it for the first time in the spring. He was the holder. If I tapped in first, it wouldn't work. He had to go in first.

 

[SueM in MN]

That shouldn't be allowed. I know that at Sea World and Universal, the person who has the DAS pass must be going on the ride with the other members of their family. Family members cannot use the pass without the person it is for.

It isn’t allowed at Disney parks either.
The guest registered for DAS has to scan their Magicband or ticket/digital media at the queue entrance before getting into line.
When they scan, the Mickey head glows blue, which alerts the CM to look at their screen. The name and photo of the person registered for DAS shows up on the screen so the CM can verify the person who scanned in the person registered for DAS.
After verification, the CM clears the alert and when the other guests linked to that DAS Return Time scan their Magicbands/tickets, the Mickey head will glow green.
If anyone who is not included in that DAS Return Time scans, the Mickey head will glow blue, not clearing them to enter

 

[Lilsia]

I know that my opinion will be very unpopular on these boards, but I whole heartedly agree that the DAS process and system is a disaster. While I believe that many people use it that are deserving of it and need it, I think that the process is so ripe for abuse that something should be done about it to strictly regulate who can use it. The truth is, we have NO idea how many people use it fraudulently because there is no way to track it at all. The fact that you need absolutely no proof is highly problematic as anyone can claim that they are entitled to it. And while I believe that the vast majority of people are good and honest, there are so many people that go to the parks, that even a small percentage of them claiming a DAS pass in error causes a strain on the system. So that the people that really need it (and the people now paying a premium for faster access via LL and Genie+) are all taken advantage of. Disney won’t change their rules, not because they can’t, but because it would cause a PR nightmare for them. They know that the process is abused, but they turn a blind eye because it’s “easier” for them.

I won’t presume to know the numbers of people abusing the system just as I hope proponents of the DAS as is also won’t presume the numbers of people abusing the system. Just because they are using the system correctly doesn’t mean that tons of people aren’t. Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m all for a DAS pass. I know someone that uses it. When I say they would literally not be able to go to any theme park without one I am not exaggerating. It’s precisely for this reason that I really really hate to see that people lie or exaggerate their need for the DAS pass in order to get one. And while I have no proof about it, the fact that the process is so ridiculously easy makes it an impossibility that it is not widely abused. The fact that there might be zero proof is because there is no way to get proof. So opinion is all you can have on this issue. I think that’s fair game.

I doubt that the abuse is even remotely close to what some people believe it to be. Anyone that went to WDW before they put Genie+ in place will know that there was hardly anyone in the FP line, the one used by DAS people. If abuse was a rampant as some like to think, those lines would have been extremely busy. I went several times during that time period and most of the DAS lines where completely empty of other people. I think some people just don't like it that those with issues get any kind of help.

 

[Genie+]

The author uses DAS for her family. She seems very confident the system is a disaster, yet claims no such experience herself. Never spells out what exactly is the disaster. The only thing made clear is her desire for a much more stringent application process. Accuses others of moral failures by her judgement and assumptions alone. Is she worried about sharing it with others she deems unworthy or not quite needy enough to her standards? That’s how it sounds. She wants reassurance the benefit she gets isn’t easily obtained by others. That may sound harsh but the overly vague way she presented this issue is in detriment to this community. Pot stirring for page views and moral superiority. Maybe she should let Disney worry about it as they’re actually in a position to gather facts about usage and impacts. They have the data, along with legal and medical advisors.

 

[Lilsia]

"DAS users can have a snack, watch a parade, ride another attraction, visit a character all while "waiting in line"....these are all things that non-DAS users would like to do as well. To say there is not an advantage is kind of befuddling"

How very ignorant. CLEARLY you've not used DAS; the pre-booked attractions DON'T stay active after the hour. And I've waited on hold for DAYS to pre-book them, because they are necessary for us to be able to enjoy the parks at all.

You're assuming that everyone utilizing this program can just wander around enjoying this "advantage" during that wait time. And maybe some days we can. On most other days, we might be huddled in a bathroom, administering medications or suffering through horrific symptoms. Or we might be in the First Aid station for treatment, or siting or lying down to avoid passing out or suffering symptoms. Or we might be eating or drinking due to a medical necessity (not for a fun snack like "normal" people). Or we might be in the shade because direct sun or heat makes us sicker or causes serious health issues. Or we might be somewhere quiet, due to emotional issues or PTSD.

The DAS accommodations are NOT for fun, or to avoid wait times, or take advantage. They are NECESSARY for many people to be able to experience in a (typically limited) sense - even with the DAS - what YOU take for granted every single day.

You might want to reconsider stating things that aren't true, when you clearly haven't used this system, and don't understand the reason for it. Like the other poster said, check your privilege about an issue you obviously know NOTHING about.

Exactly this! I spend the majority of my day either in the bathroom, or walking to the next bathroom. If I get 4 rides/attractions done in a day, that is a good day for me. I don't pre register and have never got the 2 a day advanced selections because I most likely would not be able to use them. I would love to be able to go back to being "normal" and waiting in line instead of having my issues control my life. I am not technically considered disabled, and even many doctors do not understand how my issues completely affect my way of life because unless you live like this, a person just can not understand how horrible it is.

 

[notatallmagic]

Exactly this! I spend the majority of my day either in the bathroom, or walking to the next bathroom. If I get 4 rides/attractions done in a day, that is a good day for me. I don't pre register and have never got the 2 a day advanced selections because I most likely would not be able to use them. I would love to be able to go back to being "normal" and waiting in line instead of having my issues control my life. I am not technically considered disabled, and even many doctors do not understand how my issues completely affect my way of life because unless you live like this, a person just can not understand how horrible it is.

I am so sorry. We are very blessed that my child's doctor shares the same diagnosis. She is actually the one who told us to apply for DAS, since we had pretty much determined that Disney parks would no longer be doable for us.

 

[bsmcneil]

Assumptions, indeed. I was taken aback by a couple of the writer's assumptions.

Namely, "In my mind, I liken it [scamming DAS] to a physically disabled person parking further away to leave the spot at the front door free for something [sic] less mobile, then watching another person pull in and take it, walking away without issue."

First, anyone possessing a handicap placard or plates is highly unlikely to be this self-sacrificing. They have gone through an often laborious process of obtaining placard/plates because they need to use handicap parking. They would be taking that disabled space, not leaving it for another.

Furthermore, a person may be entitled to disabled parking for a condition that isn't visible---ummm, like qualifying for the DAS, for instance. They may be able to walk without evident impairment because mobility isn't the problem.

The writer's lack of knowledge and discernment is distressing.

To be fair - this is often me. If I can do the walk, I'll do it to save for someone else. If I can't, I use the placard. Accessibility isn't necessarily binary (nor do I believe I need the mobility assistance any less because there are some days I can use my energy and muscles to make it a certain distance and some days I cannot).

 

[Lilsia]

I am so sorry. We are very blessed that my child's doctor shares the same diagnosis. She is actually the one who told us to apply for DAS, since we had pretty much determined that Disney parks would no longer be doable for us.

Yeah, it stinks. Especially when you have a management at work that does not understand why you need to use the restroom so often. I guess they are used to young people just trying to get out of work and sit on their phones. I am too old for that and I shouldn't have to justify myself all the time. If I have to go, I have to go.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The author uses DAS for her family. She seems very confident the system is a disaster, yet claims no such experience herself. Never spells out what exactly is the disaster. The only thing made clear is her desire for a much more stringent application process. Accuses others of moral failures by her judgement and assumptions alone. Is she worried about sharing it with others she deems unworthy or not quite needy enough to her standards? That’s how it sounds. She wants reassurance the benefit she gets isn’t easily obtained by others. That may sound harsh but the overly vague way she presented this issue is in detriment to this community. Pot stirring for page views and moral superiority. Maybe she should let Disney worry about it as they’re actually in a position to gather facts about usage and impacts. They have the data, along with legal and medical advisors.

The author actually states that her family would qualify for DAS but they choose not to use it.

“Even though mine is an additional needs family, for our specific circumstances, I’ve always tried to get through the parks without the pass; the lessons in waiting were more useful for my personal situation than the pass would have been. Many don’t have that luxury and need additional assistance to be able to visit the parks at all.”

Regardless, I agree with the overwhelming assessment in this thread that there are a ton of inappropriate assumptions and ableism within it.

@WebmasterJackie @WebmasterPete @WebmasterCorey - please read this thread. The speculation and assumptions in this article are inappropriate.