Has Disney’s Strategies To It’s Loyal Customers Finally Caught Up With It?

Here's the problem

Almost nobody is going to go to the park between 2 AM and 6 AM

It would just be wasteful
Was just about to say the same thing. You stay up all night one night and it completely messes up your sleep schedule for a while. Can you imagine 2-6 year olds the next few days??? It would not only affect guests, but Cast members, too. Could be a safety issue as well, for CM's.
 
True, but how about midnight or 1:00 a.m.? I just checked the schedule and even now, at the peak of summer vacation season, the MK closes at 10:00 p.m. most nights, with Epcot and DHS at 9:00 and AK at 7:00. Disneyland is open every night until midnight! And DCA until 10:00.

If I were planning a trip to Florida at this time of the year (in violation of my policy of not going east of the Rockies between May and September), I'd sure like the idea of hitting some parks in the morning, staying in a pool or air conditioned hotels and restaurants until after sunset, and then coming back for a few more hours at the parks. Maybe it isn't feasible due to shift-length requirements, but somehow the Disney folks in California manage to do it, and I'm going to bet that working-hour regulations are stronger there.

Disney could even offer an evening discounted ticket like they used to do at Epcot*, although that would only appeal to people who don't want to go to the parks during the day.

* Was that only during the Food & Wine Festival?
They can't hire enough people to staff the longer hours. The local market is basically tapped out, that is why they are going hard with recruiting college students. They can't even open 2 waterparks at the same time - during the summer! Or have daily housekeeping at moderates and values, a lot is still not back to normal.
 
They can't hire enough people to staff the longer hours. The local market is basically tapped out, that is why they are going hard with recruiting college students. They can't even open 2 waterparks at the same time - during the summer! Or have daily housekeeping at moderates and values, a lot is still not back to normal.
They *could* hire enough people, they are just choosing not to. If they offered housekeepers 60k a year, they would suddenly have enough staffing. They won't do that though, so the "There's not enough workers in Florida" argument will continue to be the excuse given. There aren't enough workers willing to clean rooms or lifeguard for $11 an hour part time, that's the real "issue". If you pay them, they will come.
 
They *could* hire enough people, they are just choosing not to. If they offered housekeepers 60k a year, they would suddenly have enough staffing. They won't do that though, so the "There's not enough workers in Florida" argument will continue to be the excuse given. There aren't enough workers willing to clean rooms or lifeguard for $11 an hour part time, that's the real "issue". If you pay them, they will come.
They are being paid $20+ an hour now, not $11. If they paid housekeepers $60K a year, there would be no values or moderates, they would have to raise rooms rates quite a bit, pricing out many guests. There is a labor shortage as well as an affordable housing shortage (Disney is working on building affordable housing, but it's a few years out and still won't solve the problem).
 
Even at $20, that's not some amazing pay rate anymore. I looked up the wage for Disney lifeguards and they appear to be closer to the $10 an hour rate, but that data may be out of date. I know people working the floor at Target that get more than $20, so it's no wonder that that rate isn't attracting commuting prospects. The answer to employment shortages is always money. There is certainly a point where people would be willing to commute further in exchange for a higher wage. The problem is the companies are not willing to pay those wages and they'd rather have worse service and save money. I'm not saying they're wrong for making that decision, just that it's not an actual problem without a solution.
 
never have believed this one...disney wants the most people in their parks for the highest price possible.
If they are seeing data and feedback from customers that leads them to believe that people who visit during a very crowded time are less likely to come back, then it would make sense.

Maybe if they are finding that fewer people visiting at a higher price point results in more repeat business than more people visiting at a lower price point, then they'd want to pivot in that direction.
 
Even at $20, that's not some amazing pay rate anymore. I looked up the wage for Disney lifeguards and they appear to be closer to the $10 an hour rate, but that data may be out of date. I know people working the floor at Target that get more than $20, so it's no wonder that that rate isn't attracting commuting prospects. The answer to employment shortages is always money. There is certainly a point where people would be willing to commute further in exchange for a higher wage. The problem is the companies are not willing to pay those wages and they'd rather have worse service and save money. I'm not saying they're wrong for making that decision, just that it's not an actual problem without a solution.
This reminded me of a thread on here from a few months ago where people were talking about how In-N-Out paid more than a minimum wage Disneyland CM. If that's the case, then it's a no brainer why Disneyland is running on a skeleton crew and Disney has zero issues letting it operate that way.
 
I hate cold weather. It’s not common here. Just like people in the north stay indoors in the winter, people in warm climates stay indoors in the summer. The cost of living here is much cheaper than most of the other places we could be for our industry, semiconductor design. California is way expensive and too cold for me. I have also be in Texas or Oklahoma my whole life, so I’m use to the heat.
I live in southern California, about an hour from any beach, and its high 90s/100s for us this week.

I think we may eventually move to Texas because of the HCOL. It will take me some time to get used to humidity - I'm a more of a horned lizard than a gecko :laughing:
 
Part of WDW's staffing problem is their draconian HR system, and the lack of advance scheduling for p/t workers. It's well known that jobs where workers have no agency are the ones with the highest turnover, and WDW's system is almost Orwellian. They need to drop that ridiculous point system, for a start.

I've said it before, WDW is huge, and wields a ton of purchasing power. They could easily make up the pay gap in cost-saving benefits for workers, such as paid toll accounts, gas cards, and their own low-cost worker transit system (a la Google). They could provide those sorts of things for pennies on the dollar. Transportation is a huge issue in Orlando for minimum wage workers; many of them cannot afford cars, or only have one per family, but Lynx ends up giving those people daily commutes of over 3 hours much of the time.
 
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Part of WDW's staffing problem is their draconian HR system, and the lack of advance scheduling for p/t workers. It's well known that jobs where workers have no agency are the ones with the highest turnover, and WDW's system is almost Orwellian. They need to drop that ridiculous point system, for a start.

I've said it before, WDW is huge, and wields a ton of purchasing power. They could easily make up the pay gap in cost-saving benefits for workers, such as paid toll accounts, gas cards, and their own low-cost worker transit system (a la Google). They could easily provide those sorts of things for pennies on the dollar. Transportation is a huge issue in Orlando for minimum wage workers; many of them cannot afford cars, or only have one per family, but Lynx ends up giving those people daily commutes of over 3 hours much of the time.
To prove to everyone I’m not a blind “pixie duster”, as a former cast member I agree with all of this. Disney has done better with allowing people to be themselves at work, but they do need to continue work with what we call “charitable assumption” at Topgolf. The points system comes off as complete fault, and while they will work with you on points for situations you shouldn’t have to beg a company to not punish you for having to miss days for a variety of reasons.
 
To prove to everyone I’m not a blind “pixie duster”, as a former cast member I agree with all of this. Disney has done better with allowing people to be themselves at work, but they do need to continue work with what we call “charitable assumption” at Topgolf. The points system comes off as complete fault, and while they will work with you on points for situations you shouldn’t have to beg a company to not punish you for having to miss days for a variety of reasons.
Can you briefly explain the points system? i know I've seen it referenced before but don't remember the details. Thanks!
 
They are being paid $20+ an hour now, not $11. If they paid housekeepers $60K a year, there would be no values or moderates, they would have to raise rooms rates quite a bit, pricing out many guests. There is a labor shortage as well as an affordable housing shortage (Disney is working on building affordable housing, but it's a few years out and still won't solve the problem).

They could just eat into the profits to combat your concerns. It's a smarter long term play but ultimately they only care about there here and now.
 
Summer has been trending down for years now. A combination of the heat, no Epcot festival, no MK holiday parties, and people seem to be more willing to pull kids out of school for a vacation. There are also more year-round schools and online options than before. I don't think it's specifically the poor treatment of repeat visitors, more it's that word has gotten out about the issues coming to Disney in July.
 
Can you briefly explain the points system? i know I've seen it referenced before but don't remember the details. Thanks!
It's actually pretty generous, now it's been awhile since I was working for Disney, but here is what I remember (and these are points for attendance only, job performance/safety violations are a separate matrix).

For a reprimand, you would receive one if you have 3 points in 30 days, 6 points in 90 days, 9 points in 180 days, or 12 points in 365 days. A late less than 2 hours is a half point, over 2 hours or a call out is one point. If your absences are consecutive, it all counts as one point.

Once you have one attendance reprimand, if you trip the matrix again within a rolling 12-month period with any of the above then it’s reprimand #2. (Rolling 12-month period means that if your reprimand is August 10, then it counts against you until August 10 of next year, then it’s gone and you’re back to zero.)

Once you have been reprimanded for attendance points they don’t count against you for future reprimands.

Termination for attendance is on your fourth reprimand.


In actuality, it is hard to get termed for attendance. I was an operations manager for 5 of my years at Disney (held other positions, too) and only once did I term someone for attendance.
 
Egers Empire is crumbling. ESPN is falling apart. Elemental and Indiana Jones (that’s to Kathleen Kennedy) boomed. Parks attendance is down. You treat your loyal longtime customers like trash and this is Karma.

Can we all agree to stop saying Elemental is failing now? It's going to surpass Encanto's Box Office return and no one has said Encanto is a failure.
 
Summer has been trending down for years now. A combination of the heat, no Epcot festival, no MK holiday parties, and people seem to be more willing to pull kids out of school for a vacation. There are also more year-round schools and online options than before. I don't think it's specifically the poor treatment of repeat visitors, more it's that word has gotten out about the issues coming to Disney in July.
That is definitely part of it. There is no way its the main reason for July 4th being the lowest attended July 4th in 10 years. IMO with most of the world open now people are opting for other places outside of the US
 
Can we all agree to stop saying Elemental is failing now? It's going to surpass Encanto's Box Office return and no one has said Encanto is a failure.
No. Encanto cost alot less (120 to 200 million) and came out when Covid was a legit excuse against a movie not doing great. It still made its money back and did very well on Disney Plus back during covid's apex, and also did very well as a musical. It also more importantly had small ad spend, as it came out during Covid, the big marketing push that accompanies most movies was not there. Those marketing pushes are AT LEAST 50 percent of production costs these days and sometimes equal the movies cost.

Elemental meanwhile cost 200 million, had an ad spend push, and did worse. It may redeem itself in Disney Plus, but i doubt it.

People dont actually understand how movie "rentals" work. Disney gets less of a cut of the Box office each passing week (this is to encourage the movie theatre to show it longer). They get the highest value on opening weekend and less value each other week. For internal "rentals" they get way less than for American movie theatres too. Also dont forget that certain famous actors, actresses, directors and producers get straight points off the gross sometimes. You might hear "billion dollar weekend!" but thats not how much money the movie studio actually makes.

Encanto from a purely "how much the movie made" sense was probably a break even or small loss. But it made money back in creating a fandom, merchandising, and periphals. Nobody is buying Elemental merch that I've seen.
 
No. Encanto cost alot less (120 to 200 million) and came out when Covid was a legit excuse against a movie not doing great. It still made its money back and did very well on Disney Plus back during covid's apex, and also did very well as a musical. It also more importantly had small ad spend, as it came out during Covid, the big marketing push that accompanies most movies was not there. Those marketing pushes are AT LEAST 50 percent of production costs these days and sometimes equal the movies cost.

Elemental meanwhile cost 200 million, had an ad spend push, and did worse. It may redeem itself in Disney Plus, but i doubt it.

People dont actually understand how movie "rentals" work. Disney gets less of a cut of the Box office each passing week (this is to encourage the movie theatre to show it longer). They get the highest value on opening weekend and less value each other week. For internal "rentals" they get way less than for American movie theatres too. Also dont forget that certain famous actors, actresses, directors and producers get straight points off the gross sometimes. You might hear "billion dollar weekend!" but thats not how much money the movie studio actually makes
Encanto from a purely "how much the movie made" sense was probably a break even or small loss. But it made money back in creating a fandom, merchandising, and periphals. Nobody is buying Elemental merch that I've seen.
I think all of what you say is why saying something was a "failure" or not (and I'm not even sure what constitutes a failure) is not a simple look at box office receipts. It is much more than that as you say, production costs, marketing costs, merchandise sales etc. What is each individual movie's return on investment?

Post-COVID the movies are in a whole new place and nothing can be looked at the same, nothing. I go to the movies 1-2 times a week. Twice this week. The theaters are EMPTY. They are glaringly empty of children even at children's movies. It has gotten a bit better this summer since so many movies have come out but between COVID's change in behavior, the high cost of tickets & concessions, the move to streaming, movies that are only in the theater a short time compared to years ago ... the studios, the theaters ... they all need to figure this out. I love going to the movies, I hope it's not a dying industry but if I didn't have A-List, I probably wouldn't be going much either.
 
I think all of what you say is why saying something was a "failure" or not (and I'm not even sure what constitutes a failure) is not a simple look at box office receipts. It is much more than that as you say, production costs, marketing costs, merchandise sales etc. What is each individual movie's return on investment?

Post-COVID the movies are in a whole new place and nothing can be looked at the same, nothing. I go to the movies 1-2 times a week. Twice this week. The theaters are EMPTY. They are glaringly empty of children even at children's movies. It has gotten a bit better this summer since so many movies have come out but between COVID's change in behavior, the high cost of tickets & concessions, the move to streaming, movies that are only in the theater a short time compared to years ago ... the studios, the theaters ... they all need to figure this out. I love going to the movies, I hope it's not a dying industry but if I didn't have A-List, I probably wouldn't be going much either.
People only seem seem to be going for the blockbusters now. There best best is to stop including new movies with D+. Make them available for rent for $20 when released on D+ for the first 8 months.
 

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