Rumors that Disney is in negotiations to sell Star Wars back to George Lucas!

[PolymerSkywalker]

Agreed, the OT had nothing but a very rough story outline according to George. What the OT didn’t have was a Rian Johnson and one of the most divisive movies in cinematic history as its middle act.

History will tell the tale, but I just do not see people adoring the Disney ST 30 years from now like the OT is adored.

 

[starlite_]

I have been watching a Star Wars marathon over the past few dyas, and having jsut rewatched the OT, I still contend that it had no plan and is just as disjointed as the Sequels. Not that I see that as a bad thing, but the idea that they have to have a master plan to make a successful trilogy doesn't hold up for me. ROTJ does almost the exact same thing as TROS - it tried to "fix" the stuff that Empire changed from the first one - and there was some consternation about that at the time. If I had to criticize anything about the Sequels, it's that they mirror the OT a little too much, warts and all.

Mmhhh, agree and disagree.

I agree that OT did what it could with the plot holes but as far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong) it wasn't guarantied that it would become a trilogy.

In this day and age if you have a confirmed trilogy then gods almighty pls plan your timeline and your plot correctly. Having dif directors shouldn't need to "fix" anything. TV Shows do it all the time, why can't movies?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

No you are correct, it was not planned as a trilogy. However, the first movie was only made covering a portion of George’s original outline. He was making a western in space with laser swords, so of course he had no idea if it would even be well received.

 

[BrianL]

Yeah, but my argument is that not having a plan does not necessarily mean the story will have problems. It is often cited for the ST, but that's not the real issue. One can argue the finer plot points, but I just don't think that having a plan from the beginning is necessarily important.

Empire also was divisive at the time. It eschewed a lot of stuff from the first one, which Jedi suddenly brought back, Death Stars and all.

 

[nancipants]

Yeah, it's not like he's going to write everything himself. He'll just be guiding the general direction of things. Personally, I love Dave, but if you don't, there will still be other voices doing some of the projects.

The "guiding" part is what concerns me, as I feel like all his stories so far have centered around a specific conflict and set of characters. While Ahsoka introduced a few new characters, they went back to the well of Thrawn and the Ghost Crew and Ahsoka. I saw a joke on Twitter about Dave asking Tony Gilroy where the Ghost crew was in Season 2 of Andor, and Gilroy responding, the WHAT, and while it's just a joke for laughs, I DO worry about Filoni continuously going back to his well of characters and conflicts. His movie is basically going to try to be The Avengers for this era, which I don't think it's earned and I think will fall very, very flat.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The "guiding" part is what concerns me, as I feel like all his stories so far have centered around a specific conflict and set of characters. While Ahsoka introduced a few new characters, they went back to the well of Thrawn and the Ghost Crew and Ahsoka. I saw a joke on Twitter about Dave asking Tony Gilroy where the Ghost crew was in Season 2 of Andor, and Gilroy responding, the WHAT, and while it's just a joke for laughs, I DO worry about Filoni continuously going back to his well of characters and conflicts. His movie is basically going to try to be The Avengers for this era, which I don't think it's earned and I think will fall very, very flat.

This, Nancy gets it!

I am very afraid that his characters will now be in everything and even when the canon has to be stretched significantly to make it happen.

I am beginning to thing Ahsoka doesn’t age at all as she is rumored to potentially be in the upcoming Rey movie.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yeah, but my argument is that not having a plan does not necessarily mean the story will have problems. It is often cited for the ST, but that's not the real issue. One can argue the finer plot points, but I just don't think that having a plan from the beginning is necessarily important.

Empire also was divisive at the time. It eschewed a lot of stuff from the first one, which Jedi suddenly brought back, Death Stars and all.

Empire was mildly divisive, but TLJ is considered by many in the industry as one of the most divisive movies of all time. The two are not remotely the same. One is a part of the most beloved trilogy in cinematic history. One is a steaming pile of poo that the studio freaked out after and tasks JJ with “fixing it”.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I have been watching a Star Wars marathon over the past few dyas, and having jsut rewatched the OT, I still contend that it had no plan and is just as disjointed as the Sequels. Not that I see that as a bad thing, but the idea that they have to have a master plan to make a successful trilogy doesn't hold up for me. ROTJ does almost the exact same thing as TROS - it tried to "fix" the stuff that Empire changed from the first one - and there was some consternation about that at the time. If I had to criticize anything about the Sequels, it's that they mirror the OT a little too much, warts and all.

i think when you are creating a brand new product that is fine, it either works or it doesn't. No harm no fowl kinda deal. When you have a well established brand with loyal fans, there's more of an obligation to do right by them and not "fake it till you make it"

 

[starlite_]

Yeah, but my argument is that not having a plan does not necessarily mean the story will have problems. It is often cited for the ST, but that's not the real issue. One can argue the finer plot points, but I just don't think that having a plan from the beginning is necessarily important.

Empire also was divisive at the time. It eschewed a lot of stuff from the first one, which Jedi suddenly brought back, Death Stars and all.

We're gonna have to disagree on this. I cannot imagine why NOT having a plan when spending millions of dollars on a trilogy is a good idea. Making it up as you go is not a smart thing to do.

 

[starlite_]

i think when you are creating a brand new product that is fine, it either works or it doesn't. No harm no fowl kinda deal. When you have a well established brand with loyal fans, there's more of an obligation to do right by them and not "fake it till you make it"

Agree, and even tho I don't really care if they "do it right" by the fans. Honestly most of the time trying to do that just makes an even bigger mess.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

i think when you are creating a brand new product that is fine, it either works or it doesn't. No harm no fowl kinda deal. When you have a well established brand with loyal fans, there's more of an obligation to do right by them and not "fake it till you make it"

Agreed, and very well said.

Look at Dr Who for another example of how not to respect your legacy fandom.

 

[Kestryl]

Yeah, but my argument is that not having a plan does not necessarily mean the story will have problems. It is often cited for the ST, but that's not the real issue. One can argue the finer plot points, but I just don't think that having a plan from the beginning is necessarily important.

Empire also was divisive at the time. It eschewed a lot of stuff from the first one, which Jedi suddenly brought back, Death Stars and all.

This. Empire benefited from the pre-internet age, where people couldn't send out instant criticism. Reviews were mixed at the time, both by critics and general audiences.

 

[BrianL]

We're gonna have to disagree on this. I cannot imagine why NOT having a plan when spending millions of dollars on a trilogy is a good idea. Making it up as you go is not a smart thing to do.

Disagree.

Agree, and even tho I don't really care if they "do it right" by the fans. Honestly most of the time trying to do that just makes an even bigger mess.

Agree.

 

[BrianL]

Agreed, and very well said.

Look at Dr Who for another example of how not to respect your legacy fandom.

Oh, man, what did Dr. Who do? Vaguely insinuate that another character is slightly more capable than the Doctor?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

We're gonna have to disagree on this. I cannot imagine why NOT having a plan when spending millions of dollars on a trilogy is a good idea. Making it up as you go is not a smart thing to do.

100% agree with Starlite on this point, the Disney ST should have had a plan. Not a set in stone every single detail plan……but at least a basic outline. No plan for the ST led to JJ trying to just fix it all at the end, and stupidly bring back a past big bad. You need a plan!

I also agree that even if you have a plan on a direction I hate, it’s better than no plan. Stick with it. Once Rian Johnson went down the crazy path he did, I think Disney freaking out and making JJ “fix it”, made it even worse. The better play would have likely been to lean into Rian Johnson’s steaming pile of poo.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Oh, man, what did Dr. Who do? Vaguely insinuate that another character is slightly more capable than the Doctor?

Not a Dr Who fan, just have a good friend (female) that is. She has been so mad the last few years that she has sworn off the whole show. Decent amount of OT Star Wars fans are also Dr Who fans, I have found. I had a great friend in England I worked with years ago who was a huge Dr Who fan.

I don’t know the lore, so I can’t speak intelligently on the topic. I just know a significant portion of the legacy fans are not pleased and they ratings have fallen pretty significantly.

 

[BrianL]

100% agree with Starlite on this point, the Disney ST should have had a plan. Not a set in stone every single detail plan……but at least a basic outline. No plan for the ST led to JJ trying to just fix it all at the end, and stupidly bring back a past big bad. You need a plan!

I also agree that even if you have a plan on a direction I hate, it’s better than no plan. Stick with it. Once Rian Johnson went down the crazy path he did, I thing Disney freaking out and making JJ “fix it”, made it even worse. The better play would have likely been to lean into Rian Johnson’s steaming pile of poo.

I think they did have a very general plan - very general, but still had one, but they pivoted with the middle, which sort of tossed it out the window. That's not really tha tdifferent from what George did though, so I don't get all the worry about it.

 

[mdmost]

This. Empire benefited from the pre-internet age, where people couldn't send out instant criticism. Reviews were mixed at the time, both by critics and general audiences.

 

[BrianL]

Interesting for sure, and eerily similar to fan reception for Epsiode VIII, isn't it?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Of course there are some people that don’t like things. I mean you hated Top Gun Maverick, but it was overwhelmingly liked by most.

More people appear to hate hated TLJ than hated Empire. By a very large margin imho.