DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Sandisw]

I’m certainly not a timeshare “expert,” but I would say that @dioxide45 is, and I believe he indicated he looked at the DVC POS docs, compared them to the docs for other resort systems that have implemented this, and indicated that the language was extremely similar. @dioxide45, feel free to jump in and correct me if I misinterpreted your post.

I guess we shall see how it shakes out...but I can say that as an owner, I will be watching very closely (have already sent my concerns) and be willing to ensure that whatever changes are made it does not impact my home resort guarantees in anyway.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Yes. And, in my mind, that is why they won't worry about trying to transfer the handful of points they might own at the existing resorts. Just set it up so those members of the trust have access to them at 7 months as exchanges like we do now.

Right now, we all get 11 month advangtage at one resort. If we want more, we buy more deeds at the other places. The trust idea is one stop shopping...you get advantage at the resorts in the trust....and if they can start it out with several resorts, it still could be much more popular than doing it the way they do know.

Over time, I think all DVC gets done this way and any new resorts into the system will no longer be component sites that you buy into specifically....they are owned by the trust only....eventually, that is how they will deal with the 2042 resorts....they will simply add them at expiration to the trust. Great way to deal with all that expirng inventory at once.

I certainly hope you are right and that they won’t include the existing resorts in any trust. That could turn out to be a nightmare for existing owners trying to get popular rooms at 11 months… maybe not right away but certainly as the trusts share of the points owned at any given resort and the trust membership grows

 

[Genie+]

Both groups (e.g the 100k points owned by 1000 individual deeded owners and the 100k points ‘owned’ by the 20000 trust members) would be a free for all at 11 months.

How are the units going to play into this?

From https://www.disboards.com/threads/vdh-unit-and-sales-tracker.3918952/
Thanks to @ehh



Will the trust be limited to the inventory it specifically owns?

Could it operate on ‘partial’ units?

 

[Hubalorian]

In my mind, wouldn’t the trust resale membership be priced higher than what RIV has settled into since it would include 11 month window for 4 other resorts? Assuming VDH, RIV, FW, ALU, and Poly2 are the only resorts in the trust?

 

[Tatebeck]

In my mind, wouldn’t the trust resale membership be priced higher than what RIV has settled into since it would include 11 month window for 4 other resorts? Assuming VDH, RIV, FW, ALU, and Poly2 are the only resorts in the trust?

I don't think they would charge more than a direct ownership purchase. With a direct purchase you have a guarantee that you can use x number of points at 11 months at a certain resort. The trust would be a plan where you MAYBE can book SOME points at SOME resorts at 11 months, then if not you can try at 7.

 

[Genie+]

In my mind, wouldn’t the trust resale membership be priced higher than what RIV has settled into since it would include 11 month window for 4 other resorts? Assuming VDH, RIV, FW, ALU, and Poly2 are the only resorts in the trust?

Who knows. They could charge a lower buy-in cost but then utilize a ‘premium’ point chart to get those 11 month bookings access. So you buy-in at $150pp, you can book SSR at 7 months with the regular DVC point chart but if you want RIV/VDH/etc at 11 months? That chart charges a 20% point premium. Eta- which many people might accept if it means you can rotate home priority without investing in multiple resorts.

 

[ehh]

In my mind, wouldn’t the trust resale membership be priced higher than what RIV has settled into since it would include 11 month window for 4 other resorts? Assuming VDH, RIV, FW, ALU, and Poly2 are the only resorts in the trust?

I’ve been noodling on this, too, and agree.

Seems like, with the right marketing, they could position this as an upsell of sorts. ‘Just $15/pt more and you can add 4 more home resorts!’ type of thing.

They could also FOMO it and say that converting existing points (or the same points later) will be $30/pt, so better buy it now!

 

[JackosinDIS]

How are the units going to play into this?

From https://www.disboards.com/threads/vdh-unit-and-sales-tracker.3918952/
Thanks to @ehh

View attachment 816692

Will the trust be limited to the inventory it specifically owns?

Could it operate on ‘partial’ units?

Yes, it could operate on partial units, just like our ownership operates on partial units. It doesn’t matter who owns what and which unit, just the number of points you have. It wouldn’t be limited to the units that it specifically owns, in the same way that we are not limited to the unit that we own.

Imagine that the trust bought 10000 points at VDH today. They would have a share of one Unit, represented by these points.

The trust then sells these points in 100 point increments to 100 individual members. So far so good, no different to 100 people each buying a 100 point contract and booking in the same way that we all do now.

However, the trust has also done the same thing for 4 other resorts. In this scenario, imagine that none of the other 4 resorts are as popular as VDH. Everyone wants to book VDH and they have an ability to do so at 11 months (that is the benefit of the trust model for the members). You then have a situation where there are 500 trust members all trying to use the 10k points at VDH at 8am when the window opens as they know it is first come first served. They are all going for a studio as they only have a 100 point share in the trust.

While the members can only book as many studios as it takes to exhaust the 10k points the trust owns, the fact that there are 500 people trying for those rooms means it is much harder for the original deeded owners to be successful if they are also searching for a studio at the 11 month window.

 

[Cybertruck]

I was excited for more benefits at first ……. Then I realized that they want to charge more at my resort for views that I can now get for free. I think it’s just a way to charge more money for things I have. The idea of a club room is nice but I'm Not happy about the possible change of opening up my report to others at 11 months. Places like the Beach Club are too small
For that and home resort people would certainly be shut out

100% agree. I would echo BWV is too small for this during Food & Wine.

 

[tidefan]

Yes, it could operate on partial units, just like our ownership operates on partial units. It doesn’t matter who owns what and which unit, just the number of points you have. It wouldn’t be limited to the units that it specifically owns, in the same way that we are not limited to the unit that we own.

Imagine that the trust bought 10000 points at VDH today. They would have a share of one Unit, represented by these points.

The trust then sells these points in 100 point increments to 100 individual members. So far so good, no different to 100 people each buying a 100 point contract and booking in the same way that we all do now.

However, the trust has also done the same thing for 4 other resorts. In this scenario, imagine that none of the other 4 resorts are as popular as VDH. Everyone wants to book VDH and they have an ability to do so at 11 months (that is the benefit of the trust model for the members). You then have a situation where there are 500 trust members all trying to use the 10k points at VDH at 8am when the window opens as they know it is first come first served. They are all going for a studio as they only have a 100 point share in the trust.

While the members can only book as many studios as it takes to exhaust the 10k points the trust owns, the fact that there are 500 people trying for those rooms means it is much harder for the original deeded owners to be successful if they are also searching for a studio at the 11 month window.

I agree with this and as I've metioned before, I would not be surprised to see DVD try and acquire points at all resorts. As they buy them back, they can convert them to the trust.

I know that @Sandisw makes some salient points as to why they may want to do this with only new resorts going forward, but it seems to me, if they function like most other timeshares, as DVD re-acquires points, they could place them in the trust. And if they start taking everything back via ROFR to enroll in the trust, that dampens the resale market anyway...

 

[Genie+]

Yes, it could operate on partial units, just like our ownership operates on partial units. It doesn’t matter who owns what and which unit, just the number of points you have. It wouldn’t be limited to the units that it specifically owns, in the same way that we are not limited to the unit that we own.

Imagine that the trust bought 10000 points at VDH today. They would have a share of one Unit, represented by these points.

The trust then sells these points in 100 point increments to 100 individual members. So far so good, no different to 100 people each buying a 100 point contract and booking in the same way that we all do now.

However, the trust has also done the same thing for 4 other resorts. In this scenario, imagine that none of the other 4 resorts are as popular as VDH. Everyone wants to book VDH and they have an ability to do so at 11 months (that is the benefit of the trust model for the members). You then have a situation where there are 500 trust members all trying to use the 10k points at VDH at 8am when the window opens as they know it is first come first served. They are all going for a studio as they only have a 100 point share in the trust.

While the members can only book as many studios as it takes to exhaust the 10k points the trust owns, the fact that there are 500 people trying for those rooms means it is much harder for the original deeded owners to be successful if they are also searching for a studio at the 11 month window.

It feels like a grey area. Going back to the 2 Grand Villa example at VDH,

https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/post-65195807

Are there legal boundaries for the trust to book a GV? Can they book both for the full calendar, or is there a limt.

 

[ehh]

How are the units going to play into this?

From https://www.disboards.com/threads/vdh-unit-and-sales-tracker.3918952/
Thanks to @ehh

View attachment 816692

Will the trust be limited to the inventory it specifically owns?

Could it operate on ‘partial’ units?

I think Trust inventory has to be Unit-based, because deeded ownership is Unit-based and they have to play nicely together.

Partial Units would be very difficult to manage considering there’s both room and date dimensions to balance in the Trust system while the Deed system only has room dimension. Unit-based simplifies this to just pre-determined rooms across all dates. It’s more transparently equitable, too.

The 7m merger of inventory is also a little easier with Units.

Unit-based has a downside of imbalanced room distribution within and across Units, but as long as they get a decent % of the resort into the Trust it should be okay.

Unit-based also probably means no conversion later, as I suggested in my prior post, and buying into the Trust vs. Deed needs to be determined at time of purchase.

Making it Unit-based does mean that a slow acquisition of points via ROFR is probably off the table, too.

 

[Genie+]

I agree with this and as I've metioned before, I would not be surprised to see DVD try and acquire points at all resorts. As they buy them back, they can convert them to the trust.

I know that @Sandisw makes some salient points as to why they may want to do this with only new resorts going forward, but it seems to me, if they function like most other timeshares, as DVD re-acquires points, they could place them in the trust. And if they start taking everything back via ROFR to enroll in the trust, that dampens the resale market anyway...

Oof that could explain the way they have backed off RofR

 

[Cfabar1]

One big difference between this and other systems is that our system has always been a hybrid system overall.

The other systems tended to be fixed weeks that could be converted to points. You owned 1 week in a two bedroom that could be converted to a certain amount of points that are exchangeable. But you own a deed to something specific.

When you sell back your fixed week at whoever, they add your week 32 two bedroom ocean view room into the existing inventory. Your guaranteed week goes away for you, and now everyone can book it equally. You can also book all the other inventory evenly.

DVC was set up that your ownership interest was not set up in weeks, but rather in points. So if you sell it back to their new trust, it is very unclear what you are exactly selling back to the trust other than .0009 percent of a particular unit. But when? And what does that really mean?

Logistically I think this would be a nightmare for them to figure out how to equate, and I imagine would likely result in litigation.

DVC tends to move incrementally. I think at least to start out with, it’s new resorts and undeclared inventory only. But who knows.

 

[Sandisw]

In my mind, wouldn’t the trust resale membership be priced higher than what RIV has settled into since it would include 11 month window for 4 other resorts? Assuming VDH, RIV, FW, ALU, and Poly2 are the only resorts in the trust?

There would be nothing to prevent them to set up the rules of trust membership to give those who buy into the trust directly from DVD a bigger advantage than those who buy on the resale market.

If the members of the trust are not actual owners of the resort…and they are not…then they are bound by the terms of the trust POS.

The trust, who actually owns the points, is the only one who is required to follow the current home resort rules…if we are talking about those units already sold and deeded to owners..but nothing says it has to give access at the same time.

Think of it this way, I can book at 11 months at RIV and rent those rooms out…I can also wait and not rent until 8 or 7 months out.

I see no reason why the trust can’t be set up this way and that if you buy a resale membership into the trust it doesn’t come with the same booking ability to access resorts.

As long as the POS for the trust is written with differences, no seeing why DVD can’t or wouldn’t do it.

And, as long as the resale restrictions on RIV and VDH, so will they stay on O14 deeded contracts…so the impact could effect all deeded contracts sold.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I agree with this and as I've metioned before, I would not be surprised to see DVD try and acquire points at all resorts. As they buy them back, they can convert them to the trust.

I know that @Sandisw makes some salient points as to why they may want to do this with only new resorts going forward, but it seems to me, if they function like most other timeshares, as DVD re-acquires points, they could place them in the trust. And if they start taking everything back via ROFR to enroll in the trust, that dampens the resale market anyway...

Agree. It would very much dampen the resale market. And potentially kill off the resale market once the trust has the lion’s share of the points and having 11 month priority at only one resort is meaningless as you are up against every trust member when the window opens!

 

[Sandisw]

I agree with this and as I've metioned before, I would not be surprised to see DVD try and acquire points at all resorts. As they buy them back, they can convert them to the trust.

I know that @Sandisw makes some salient points as to why they may want to do this with only new resorts going forward, but it seems to me, if they function like most other timeshares, as DVD re-acquires points, they could place them in the trust. And if they start taking everything back via ROFR to enroll in the trust, that dampens the resale market anyway...

Let me also clarify….i don’t doubt at some point down the line they might start adding more of their points to the trust from current resorts…but if you own less than 10% of any resort, why bother?

Now, I agree if they start buying everything resale, and get to where they are now a majority owner in the resort….then yeah, I can see it tried.

 

[Genie+]

Logistically I think this would be a nightmare for them to figure out how to equate, and I imagine would likely result in litigation.

Tricky tricky. Not just legally complicated, the optics on ramifications matter too.

 

[ehh]

Anybody wanna talk about Club Level at Poly2?

 

[Genie+]

I see no reason why the trust can’t be set up this way and that if you buy a resale membership into the trust it doesn’t come with the same booking ability to access resorts.

Interesting. It’s not much different than RIV and VDH restrictions today - the direct owner gets all access and their resale buyer is denied access to the BVTC system. Direct Trust owners get all access and their resale buyers is denied access into the multi-home priority system.