Will a Rental Crackdown Reset DVC Resale Prices?

[Sandisw]

I can’t think of a wanted reservation that I didn’t ultimately get in our 3 short years of ownership. That being said we don’t travel during Thanksgiving or Christmas weeks as a matter of choice. Either way I don’t want my ability to rent my points/rent others points or to walk impacted by even more regulations should the need ever arise.

I too have pretty much gotten what I wanted around the 11 month mark with a little work and the waitlist. But, since I am now traveling in early December, the most popular time, I know its going to take that work if I want to end up with SV rooms at VGF and RIV.

If I want to just take PV/LV, then its pretty easy....but, even without walking, what I want would be difficult to get what I want, and I am okay if what I have to do is follow behind others or waitlist....I'd rather have to do that then potentially be completely shut out because I am trying to put together a multiple room trip and adjust when the dominoes begin to fall.

 

[kboo]

I too have pretty much gotten what I wanted around the 11 month mark with a little work and the waitlist. But, since I am now traveling in early December, the most popular time, I know its going to take that work if I want to end up with SV rooms at VGF and RIV.

If I want to just take PV/LV, then its pretty easy....but, even without walking, what I want would be difficult to get what I want, and I am okay if what I have to do is follow behind others or waitlist....I'd rather have to do that then potentially be completely shut out because I am trying to put together a multiple room trip and adjust when the dominoes begin to fall.

I also think that this has been challenged (for us, at Christmas time) due to the new VGF points that were sold. We bought more points too, but it was definitely harder to find 2BR standards this time around. (even with the point charts ... shudder ... 103 per night for a standard 2br is almost as much as a LV GV in late August (111)).

 

[Brian Noble]

It shouldn't be a matter of "you know how to work the system" it should be a matter of "the system works as fairly as it can."

Or its the big bad rental companies doing their spec rentals with their bots that snatch all the rooms at .000001 seconds after they go live.

The solution to both of these problems is to apportion high-demand rooms by lottery*. But if you think people get upset about walking, they will be absolutely apoplectic at the thought of having "no control."

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*: Ignoring for a moment whether or not the current documents allow it directly and/or would allow DVCMC to change the reservation mechanism to in turn implement something like this.

 

[crisi]

Yeah, I don't think a lottery is at all practical - nor do I think they can do it for all reservations all the time.

 

[Ruttangel]

Trade secret: FYI - best date to start a walk is 1st March as the walkers usually have lost 3 days where they can’t add another day,

 

[GoingSince1990]

Speaking with my economist’s hat on, whenever there is a huge demand for a product, causing many people to snap it up and resell it for more money, what that tells us is that the product is priced too low. And raising the points per night for value and tower studios, lowering them for other room categories, raising the cost of staying during early December, and lowering the cost during the summer, would go a long way towards balancing supply and demand and making it easier for everyone to get the reservations they want.

 

[Sandisw]

I also think that this has been challenged (for us, at Christmas time) due to the new VGF points that were sold. We bought more points too, but it was definitely harder to find 2BR standards this time around. (even with the point charts ... shudder ... 103 per night for a standard 2br is almost as much as a LV GV in late August (111)).

The addition of the resort studios and their points have had an impact on the larger room bookings. Maybe not to the extent that some thought most of the time, but I definitely noticed a difference this year in booking early December...and, when I normally would book 1 bedrooms at 7 months with my SSR points.

 

[Sandisw]

Speaking with my economist’s hat on, whenever there is a huge demand for a product, causing many people to snap it up and resell it for more money, what that tells us is that the product is priced too low. And raising the points per night for value and tower studios, lowering them for other room categories, raising the cost of staying during early December, and lowering the cost during the summer, would go a long way towards balancing supply and demand and making it easier for everyone to get the reservations they want.

And they did do that...its possible it still needs adjusting...

 

[thanxfornoticin]

The solution to both of these problems is to apportion high-demand rooms by lottery*. But if you think people get upset about walking, they will be absolutely apoplectic at the thought of having "no control."

Agreed - just read some of the posts in the Moonlight Magic 'random lottery/no control' conversation!!! And then you'll have people using multiple devices and multiple accounts to improve their lottery chances - not fair......!

 

[Sandisw]

Agreed - just read some of the posts in the Moonlight Magic 'random lottery/no control' conversation!!! And then you'll have people using multiple devices and multiple accounts to improve their lottery chances - not fair......!

The POS has a system in place for how the special list works...owners are not involved...you get on the list and then you are contacted when or if you get the room....

 

[lowlight]

No hearts and minds are going to be changed in the walking debate. If you don’t bump into walkers, I understand how you wouldn’t care. A better answer is “doesn’t affect me don’t care”, instead of pretending it’s not happening. I promise you it’s happening at my resorts, both during school breaks and also from Thanksgiving to New years. So I guess if it only happens 11 weeks out of 52 it’s not a big deal? That’s 20 percent of available booking periods. You can tell a walker instantly, so long as you aren’t booking on the same week they land on. The supply and demand argument is wrong. I’m not only affected if I want the same week they are walking to, every week UP to that week is affected. If they want December 1-8 and I want Nov 23-30, I can’t go on November 23 and boom 23-30. I have to wait until November 24 to book 23, 25 to book 24, one nerve wracking day at a time until they pass my week. It’s frankly bullcrap, I’m not sure how people could not understand.

I'm a parent with kids who don't want to / can't miss much school for Disney, so those weekends in December and January are something Iook forward to when I retire.

Never just simple supply and demand of people booking desired rooms for desired dates.

We're fortunate to travel during lesser demand times and look for rooms that aren't gone right at 11 months - so walking is of very little concern.

Walking isn't going to change those numbers...it is only going to change who might end up with the room.

That is exactly the point. Everyone should have a 100% equal chance on the day they want to reserve their room in a first come first served scenario. I will go so far as to say DVD has a legal obligation to ensure owners have equal footing for booking a day. Walkers have a 100% chance and the non walkers have a (number of rooms left/number of people wanting to reserve) chance.

 

[Sandisw]

No hearts and minds are going to be changed in the walking debate. If you don’t bump into walkers, I understand how you wouldn’t care. A better answer is “doesn’t affect me don’t care”, instead of pretending it’s not happening. I promise you it’s happening at my resorts, both during school breaks and also from Thanksgiving to New years. So I guess if it only happens 11 weeks out of 52 it’s not a big deal? That’s 20 percent of available booking periods. You can tell a walker instantly, so long as you aren’t booking on the same week they land on. The supply and demand argument is wrong. I’m not only affected if I want the same week they are walking to, every week UP to that week is affected. If they want December 1-8 and I want Nov 23-30, I can’t go on November 23 and boom 23-30. I have to wait until November 24 to book 23, 25 to book 24, one nerve wracking day at a time until they pass my week. It’s frankly bullcrap, I’m not sure how people could not understand.








That is exactly the point. Everyone should have a 100% equal chance on the day they want to reserve their room in a first come first served scenario. I will go so far as to say DVD has a legal obligation to ensure owners have equal footing for booking a day. Walkers have a 100% chance and the non walkers have a (number of rooms left/number of people wanting to reserve) chance.

And, I argue everyone does have an equal shot to get a room every day of the year at 8 am...the contract doesn't say you have to a confirm that is a trip you will 100% take, it simply says we all have the right to reserve a room from 11 days form check in for that room..and we are not guaranteed we will get the exact room we want...

If I want to book and hold a room and cancel/modify it later, I am glad I am allowed to do that. I like that feature and hope it never goes away....


Plus, if there are fewer people who want rooms than rooms, then every non walker will end up getting their room via waitlist or simply going in a few days later and getting the room. If someone eventually ends up with what they want, then the system is working like it should...which is supply exceeds demand.

If they don't, then it is the reverse....more demand than rooms....I am just never going to agree that limits to changing reservations will be better for the membership as a whole, and that the impact on those who don't walk but do frequenlty change and modify trips a lot...even outside of 11 months...would be a big blow to the system.

Now, for those renting above the personal use level...I am okay if DVC wants to enforce those rules if they now feel it is beconing an issue...but, on the other hand, I have no problem with an owner who decides to spec rent a really popular room during a very popular week, every year, as long as they are renting in line with the "personal use" rules.

 

[lowlight]

I am okay if DVC wants to enforce those rules if they now feel it is beconing an issue

I agree with you there. I think waiting to see if/when the commercial spec renters are smited changes the walking issue is prudent.

 

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Personally I'd love to see some sort of lottery for the very high demand times so that all owners wanting a chance to stay during that time have a fair shake and it's not dominated by bots or others who have the resources to gain an advantage over other owners.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

The POS has a system in place for how the special list works...owners are not involved...you get on the list and then you are contacted when or if you get the room....

Sorry - POS? Thanks.

 

[Genie+]

Demand is something that could be better balanced. I’ve always wondered if imbalance is somewhat intentional, that there is a cost to booking later and/or trading out. On the flipside making early bookings and home usage better values.

B. Require Copy of Rental Agreement

Interesting avenue. Could point reservations add a requirement to check off if rental or not in guise of acknowledging requirement for said contract? Not a big deal on the renter or personal rental end. Major disruption for a business but hey, if they aren’t doing anything contrary to contract as they claim then shouldn’t matter, right? Lol.

I'm not sure how walking degrades the value

Walking degrades the value in the sense that certain rooms and dates don’t exist unless you walk. I did not buy into a product that requires booking further out than 11m to get my equal shot, or the extra work involved. In a way it is forcing the walk to get your full shot in the system.

I would not mind if they added +1 Day for the ability to modify 11month reservation, ie we can’t modify a 2 day reservation until 3 days later or a 7 day reservation until 8 days later. This would only encroach on people and business playing DVC Olympics, don’t think it would bother normal users.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Personally I'd love to see some sort of lottery for the very high demand times so that all owners wanting a chance to stay during that time have a fair shake and it's not dominated by bots or others who have the resources to gain an advantage over other owners.

If there really are corporations that own thousands and thousands of points spread across many separate memberships (to get around the maximum points per membership limit), each of those memberships would get a lottery entry and they would still have an unfair advantage with such a system. Disney would also need to clamp down on the multi-account corporate points ownership to truly level the playing field.

 

[Hubalorian]

My issue with walking is when you never have a chance to book a room type. While, it’s a small subset of the resort and DVC as a whole, the AKV Club and value rooms are never bookable at 11 months out even at 8 am. This is because the reservations are booked out multiple days in advance.

I don’t think there is a great answer to this problem without having more club or value rooms added or the spec renting curtailed.

 

[McCrae]

There are many times I got an offer on a contract rejected because “the seller states they are perfectly fine to continue renting the points every year and won’t sell below x price”. Those sellers would be forced to accept a lower price….. I’m looking at you Subsidized Aulani sellers….

This change wont impact individuals.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't think a lottery is at all practical - nor do I think they can do it for all reservations all the time.

It could be made quite practical. For example, Owners could "place requests" in advance of the 11-month check-in date. On the morning of the 11-month date, just before online reservations open, the requests are processed. If fewer requests were made than rooms are available, they are booked. If more requests were made than rooms are available, then they are randomly granted. Then the booking site opens for "on demand" bookings.

This would probably have to be combined with some prohibition against "requested" bookings being modified within, say, one month of being granted to avoid using this mechanism to get a head start for walking. But, I suspect the details could be worked out.

(I suspect this is similar to the lottery process for holiday bookings that @Sandisw refers to above, but I don't remember the details of that system.)

And then you'll have people using multiple devices and multiple accounts to improve their lottery chances - not fair......!

The model above is per-Membership, and would not work the same way the queue does.