A big amen to Pete Werner!

[wallyb]

Wow!
I just read "Why I’m not going to Gay Days this year - Get A Room" in the event section of this web site and I could not agree more.

And may I add - We here in Boston have a Gay "Pride" parade as many cities around the globe do - and the few times I’ve attended I stand there going "What in this am I supposed to be proud of here - the public nudity, the go-go boys, the dykes simulating sex... What?"

It’s called decorum and common sense...try it.

 

[OrlandoMike]

I've been to quite a few gay days at the MK and quite frankly I have never seen anything strange or unappropriate. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Now the party at Typhoon can be a little racy, but thats a private event held late at night.

 

[majortom]

Wow!
I just read "Why I’m not going to Gay Days this year - Get A Room" in the event section of this web site and I could not agree more.

It’s called decorum and common sense...try it.

Have you ever been to Gay Day at the Magic Kingdom?

I have been to all but the second and forth years of this event and I not only have I never seen anything that was inappropriate, but I have routinely take straight friends (sometimes with their kids!) and they have never seemed offended at all.

As Mike said, there are private events that are, in fact, private and what happens at them is for those that wish to be there.

/carmi

 

[majortom]

Here is a quote from his piece:

Is the Magic Kingdom REALLY the place for a 5 year old to ask his father why those two men are kissing? Is it really up to any person to decide for that parent when, or if, they will have that conversation with their child?

Since there is no way to respond there, I will respond here. First, I have never seen guys behave in the park any differently than straight couples. That is they kiss, but not in any way that I have not seen a million straight couples do. This is not sex, just light affectionate kissing. As for his second sentence, if a parent does not want to risk having their child see same sex couples then that parent should not leave the house. You may feel that your sexuality is somehow less valid and appropriate than that of straight couples, but I certainly do not.

I hold my boyfriend's hand in public and kiss him just as I have seen other couples do. If this offends you, that it your problem, not mine.

I do not have time to respond to everything in his article, but suffice it to say, I would have a hard time disagreeing with him more.

/carmi

 

[Mama Twinkles]

Here is a quote from his piece:


As for his second sentence, if a parent does not want to risk having their child see same sex couples then that parent should not leave the house. You may feel that your sexuality is somehow less valid and appropriate than that of straight couples, but I certainly do not.

I haven't read Pete's post, but very much agree with this point. No homophobia = no offense taken.

ETA: And it's not our job to protect someone from his or her own homophobia.

 

[beckmrk04]

OK- so I had to go read the whole article before I could respond appropriately. I get what he's saying.

I have never been to Gay Days, but if some of the things go on that he mentions in the article, I wouldn't be a big fan of that sort of "representation" either- no more than I want promiscuous partying strippers representing all straight people. There's always some people in a crowd who push the envelope.

THAT SAID. I still don't think Gay Days are a bad idea, or that they should necessarily be avoided. I certainly would not go out of my way to avoid them, and I have heard many people report that they saw nothing going on when they went. (I havenever been- maybe next year). And why NOT explain to your kids about love and family at the Magic Kingdom? That's what the MK is all about.

Granted- some people may take it too far, but there are straight people who take it too far the other 51 weeks in a year. And it's sad that anyone can't act with maturity and decorum in the Magic Kingdom, of all places, straight OR gay. But I don't think giving your partner a smooch or holding hands falls under "not acting with decorum." It's what I do with my hubby, it's what I would expect to see from ANY couple.

And if some people get their panties all in a knot and let Gay Days RUIN their family vacation because they (GASP) saw two guys or girls holding hands, well, then, that's their own problem. It's nothing you can't see anywhere. I'm sick of people (especially those that are against gays and lesbians) acting like it's some sort porn festival street performance.

Ok. That's my 2 cents.

 

[wallyb]

I agree - no one should have an issue with holding hands
or the occasional kiss (not a make out session).

But that isn’t what Mr Werner says he observed -
and it would appeare over several Gay Days events.

Maybe it has something to do with a gang mentality.
Large groups of any one common persuasion acting crazier than they would otherwise.
And in these situations sometimes it seem to only take a few to taint the whole perception of an event.

 

[majortom]

OK- so I had to go read the whole article before I could respond appropriately. I get what he's saying.

I am currently drafting a detailed response to his post, but much of what he says is simply false or mixes true statements to produce a misleading image.

I have never been to Gay Days, but if some of the things go on that he mentions in the article, I wouldn't be a big fan of that sort of "representation" either- no more than I want promiscuous partying strippers representing all straight people. There's always some people in a crowd who push the envelope.

Most of what he complains about takes place at a private events (including several at the Gay Days host hotel). This hotel is booked for the event and just like other adult oriented events, has things in the lobby that might not be appropriate for younger children. He may not like this kind of event, but it is a private function, and is not in a place where many "unsuspecting families" will see it (if one is not staying at the host hotel, one is unlikely to go there).

THAT SAID. I still don't think Gay Days are a bad idea, or that they should necessarily be avoided.

This is his biggest problem. He mixes all events that are promoted together as "Gay Days" and acts as if they are a single event. Gay Day in the Magic Kingdom has no connection to Beach Ball (a private party at Typhoon Lagoon) or One Mighty Party (a private party at Disney-MGM Studios).

I certainly would not go out of my way to avoid them, and I have heard many people report that they saw nothing going on when they went. (I havenever been- maybe next year). And why NOT explain to your kids about love and family at the Magic Kingdom? That's what the MK is all about.

Again, I have been many times (usually with straight friends), and have not see anything inappropriate.

Granted- some people may take it too far, but there are straight people who take it too far the other 51 weeks in a year. And it's sad that anyone can't act with maturity and decorum in the Magic Kingdom, of all places, straight OR gay.

I am sure there are isolated incidents (just as there are every day at Disney) of both gay and straight couples that exceed appropriate boundaries. These are not the norm, nor do they set the tone for Gay Day at the Magic Kingdom.

But I don't think giving your partner a smooch or holding hands falls under "not acting with decorum." It's what I do with my hubby, it's what I would expect to see from ANY couple.

This is a problem for Mr. Werner. He feels that gay and lesbian couples should remain in gay ghettoes (he suggests South Beach and Key West in particular), and should not "rub their sexuality in everyones face" (it is ok to be gay, just do not let the kids find out).

And if some people get their panties all in a knot and let Gay Days RUIN their family vacation because they (GASP) saw two guys or girls holding hands, well, then, that's their own problem. It's nothing you can't see anywhere. I'm sick of people (especially those that are against gays and lesbians) acting like it's some sort porn festival street performance.

Ok. That's my 2 cents.

Well said.

/carmi

 

[mickeyfan2]

I do not care about how others act at a private party - such as the one at Typhoon Lagoon, but I do have a problem with behavior in a public place, and a hotel lobby is a public place.

Most of what he complains about takes place at a private events (including several at the Gay Days host hotel). This hotel is booked for the event and just like other adult oriented events, has things in the lobby that might not be appropriate for younger children. He may not like this kind of event, but it is a private function, and is not in a place where many "unsuspecting families" will see it (if one is not staying at the host hotel, one is unlikely to go there).

This is a problem if you did not know you book the GC hotel. One should not be worried about walking from their room to their car and have to cover their kids eyes. Remember the swingers and soccer team at the same hotel incident? It they want to swing and dress provocative, that is OK in the ballroom, but do not have the windows covering to the ballroom open.

 

[majortom]

I do not care about how others act at a private party - such as the one at Typhoon Lagoon, but I do have a problem with behavior in a public place, and a hotel lobby is a public place.

This is a problem if you did not know you book the GC hotel. One should not be worried about walking from their room to their car and have to cover their kids eyes. Remember the swingers and soccer team at the same hotel incident? It they want to swing and dress provocative, that is OK in the ballroom, but do not have the windows covering to the ballroom open.

Actually, the host hotel blocks all rooms for the event (or claims they do) and one can only book through the official travel site. Gay Days, Inc. has the entire hotel and they and the hotel's management agree to rules.

/carmi

 

[mickeyfan2]

Actually, the host hotel blocks all rooms for the event (or claims they do) and one can only book through the official travel site. Gay Days, Inc. has the entire hotel and they and the hotel's management agree to rules.

/carmi

That is different.

 

[majortom]

That is different.

As an aside, one of the funniest weekends I ever spent was in the lobby of an (unnamed) hotel in New Orleans. A friend of mine is responsible for running SIGGraph, a large Computer Graphics Conference and as such is friends with sales and marketing staff at many hotels around the country. It seems that this hotel had booked both a (straight) S&M convention and a group from Liberty University (Jerry Falwell's school) the same weekend. One of her sales rep friends called her and told her about this and she called me knowing I would find it funny.

I had her get a discount room there for me and went down with a friend for the weekend (I spend lots of time in NOLA anyway). We had dinner at a great restaurant every night and spent much of the rest of our trip watching the live entertainment. I kept waiting for someone to run into someone they knew in the other group, but I never saw that. I did see lots of other entertainment.

This is why it is always a problem when one of these events is not big enough to take over a whole hotel.

/carmi

 

[gppnj]

I attended Gay Day at Magic Kingdom in 1998. (I'm planning on going again in 2007.) I didn't see anything inappropriate. For some reason, it's apparently tradition for the Bears to attend Country Bear Jamboree en masse right at 2:00. I could see how someone not in the know could get a little thrown off by being in an audience of predominantly larger, hairier men, but there was nothing sexual about it.

 

[wallyb]

I am currently drafting a detailed response to his post, but much of what he says is simply false or mixes true statements to produce a misleading image.

I really don’t think Mr Werner would lie or put forward propaganda - what would be his purpose for doing that?

Perhaps he’ll chime in here at some point - Dose he post to this board?

What might be interesting - in order to get a clearer picture of how all people feel about
Gay Days and what they have witnessed would be a proper polling here and in another
section more likely to be seen by Straight members (to make it statistically valid and without bias).
It would be great if both poles could report their data to one place for everyone to view.

I’m new to this board so I don’t really known how to execute a poll
or for that matter how to phrase the questions.

Perhaps someone will come along who could take up the gauntlet.

 

[True North]

I have never been, so I do not feel I could make a personal comment. I will just say to wallyb that that has been done before and from what I have seen the majority (on the community board, not just this one) have not had any problems with Gay Days. It seems like those who do have a problem will eventually admit they have never been on a Gay Day. There also seems to be very few open minded / GLTB people that have had a problem. While you can make your pole if you wish, there is a 95% chance that will turn into 3 religious anti-GLTB people fighting 3 other pro-gay rights people for about 15 pages. Again, I have never been, that is just what I have seen.

Can I ask, just becuase you have said you could not agree more, have you actualy been? If so what did you see inapropriate?

 

[Tony-NJ]

While you can make your pole if you wish, there is a 95% chance that will turn into 3 religious anti-GLTB people fighting 3 other pro-gay rights people for about 15 pages. Again, I have never been, that is just what I have seen.

Very true.

 

[wallyb]

No, I'm not looking to start a "hate session".
I thought it might create some understanding of the
perceptions of seemingly divergent groups.

Sorry I did not realize a poll had been attempted already.

 

[Aurora3]

I haven't read Pete's post but I have taken a five year old to Gay Days (my daughter). We had a great time. Definitely people had their arms around each other casually in line and were holding hands but not kissing. The most risque thing I saw all day were seven guys dressed up as the dwarfs with funny names printed on their t-shirts and one was "Gropey". One guy was dressed in "bride's" Mickey ears and pumps (which are just laughable when anyone wears them to WDW). One little girl commented on this and the mother replied, "Everyone likes to dress up as a princess don't they?" The other great comment was from a very hot and tired mother trying to get into the Liberty Tree Tavern without priority seating, whose son asked, "Why is everyone wearing red?" and she responded (knowing the why but not wanting to discuss it because she was busy), "It must be red day and we didn't get the notice under our door. Maybe it will be blue day tomorrow and we can dress for it".
The only negative comment I overhead was at Ariel's grotto and a straight guy who was getting wet said something like, "Well now I'll have a reason to change out of this red shirt." All in all it was a good day. We left in the afternoon for naptime then returned at 7 or so. The park was really emptying out as people left for Pleasure Island. That worked out great for us!
For my kid it was a great experience because she got to see lots of same sex couples and gay families in one place. Somethings she doesn't see enough of in our hometown.

 

[Chuck S]

This also is one of the few times I respectfully disagree with Pete. I did not attend in the early years of the event, so it may have been wilder and Pete may have seen things. But I have attended, with my (now) 81 yo Mom, for the last several years, and neither of us have seen anything inapproriate in the parks at all. Just hand holding and light kissing. I do not attend the private ticketed events...but they aren't open to the "general public" anyway.

 

[majortom]

The most risque thing I saw all day were seven guys dressed up as the dwarfs with funny names printed on their t-shirts and one was "Gropey". One guy was dressed in "bride's" Mickey ears and pumps (which are just laughable when anyone wears them to WDW).

A friend of mine spends much of the day recording the funniest shirts. I will have to see if he has any of the recent ones still around.

The only negative comment I overhead was at Ariel's grotto and a straight guy who was getting wet said something like, "Well now I'll have a reason to change out of this red shirt."

Even that does not sound that negative. I can easily see feeling a bit weird as a straight guy wearing a red shirt without realizing it.

/carmi