All You Bought Was a Room

[MinnieSueB]

The 50th isn’t what’s driving demand right now.

And revenge travel

 

[artesian]

My feelings toward Disney are invariably colored by the full duration of our DVC ownership. We took our first family trip to WDW in late 2002 and became members about a year later. And here's how things compare to those early days:

Magical Express: Did not exist

Magic Bands: Did not exist

Dining Plan: Did not exist, and we've never used it

Extra Magic Hours: Not operating (post 9/11). The current variant isn't my favorite, but it's gone thru many revisions over the years.

FastPass: Paper tickets. Personally I prefer the recent FP+ variant, but I still like the current Genie+ system better than the original paper FP which required running across the parks and standing in lines for tickets. Genie does have the advantage of no tiered attractions and multiple parks per day, plus it's more realistic to get more than 3 rides per day.

Park Pass: It's an annoyance, but can be overcome with a minuscule amount of advance planning. Certainly less effort than making FP+ reservations 60 days in advance. And if I'm taking the "glass is half full" approach, on a day when MK attendance is so high that they aren't allowing any more Park Pass reservations, I'd prefer to choose another park anyway.

DVC perks: No Moonlight Magic, no private lounges, no merchandise discount, dining discounts limited to about 20-30 locations

Number of DVC resorts: 7

Annual Passes: available but no DVC discount. Also we were never heavy AP buyers, having them only about 15-20% of the time. Non-expiring tickets were the greater loss.

Often it's a case of Disney giveth and Disney taketh away. New attractions, perks, performers, fireworks make way for the old. Some additions are better. Some are worse. The cost is undoubtedly higher, and we all have to perform our own cost/benefit analysis. I don't begrudge anyone who decides that their 100th ride on It's a Small World will be their last. At the same time, I can't really pinpoint any exact period in time when WDW was superior, with the expectation that things remain unchanged or continue to only improve.

What a great synopsis. Having bought in 2003 this pretty much nails it for me. I will say i'd rather much the old FP (+ too) system solely based on the fact the zero need to park plan. Wake up in the morning and declare we are going to park xyz felt alot more spontaneous. Although the mad dash at rope drop was a bit crazy at least I knew I was getting on those throughout the day without my nose buried in the phone.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I still love my rooms. On the way to Riviera this weekend. booked Epcot and will snag a ride on Guardians. otherwise no plans, just like it used to be

 

[Mickey of the Villages]

We've seen it and used it as the buzz-phrase on here for years. Well guess what? It's a good thing, because that's about all that's left anyway.

When Epic Universe opens there will be real and direct competition in Orlando for vacationers. Disney is wholly unprepared for the change. Based on what I've seen Epic Universe will create a generational shift in park attendance. Kids will no longer grow up with the connection to MK etc. in the same way. The grit of superfans to endure anything from Disney will fade.

It will create a permanent difference in Disney attendance and market share.

 

[corpcomp]

I'm just hoping after the 50th is over & demand drops - perhaps we can get APs back

The only way I see demand dropping is if they raise the ticket prices another 50%. I just dread walking in the parks currently. But if they start charging for the pools, I'm out of here.

 

[tjkraz]

When Epic Universe opens there will be real and direct competition in Orlando for vacationers. Disney is wholly unprepared for the change. Based on what I've seen Epic Universe will create a generational shift in park attendance. Kids will no longer grow up with the connection to MK etc. in the same way. The grit of superfans to endure anything from Disney will fade.

It will create a permanent difference in Disney attendance and market share.

That may end up happening to some degree, but the same predictions were made when Harry Potter stuff began to open. In reality, both theme park empires saw their attendance steadily increase. Rising tide lifts all boats.

Cynicism is nothing new among avid Disney followers. It's easy to be critical of some moves made by execs, and to believe the consumer revolt is right around the corner. Then we see that DVC is back to selling 150k points per month, hotels are at 90% occupancy, park passes are selling out, half of the MNSSHP dates are full at all-time high prices, Top of the World Lounge is filling nightly with people paying $55 per chair...

 

[MinnieSueB]

The only way I see demand dropping is if they raise the ticket prices another 50%. I just dread walking in the parks currently. But if they start charging for the pools, I'm out of here.

Once revenge travel & the 50th is over and if the economy continues to go downward, Disney may change their tune. Merch is already sitting so they are seeing a decline there.

 

[Mickey of the Villages]

That may end up happening to some degree, but the same predictions were made when Harry Potter stuff began to open. In reality, both theme park empires saw their attendance steadily increase. Rising tide lifts all boats.

Cynicism is nothing new among avid Disney followers. It's easy to be critical of some moves made by execs, and to believe the consumer revolt is right around the corner. Then we see that DVC is back to selling 150k points per month, hotels are at 90% occupancy, park passes are selling out, half of the MNSSHP dates are full at all-time high prices, Top of the World Lounge is filling nightly with people paying $55 per chair...

You are right. People (especially Disney hobbyists of a certain sort) want to see the (Disney) World burn for the sins of the Company. I do feel like that from time to time.

But if anyone does not think that Epic Universe will represent a permanent and significant difference to Disney they are fooling themselves.

 

[bwang123]

I'm just hoping after the 50th is over & demand drops - perhaps we can get APs back

is there an actual significant increase for the 50th? i would think any increase would be from more people travelling in general and maybe from the newest attractions.

 

[MinnieSueB]

is there an actual significant increase for the 50th? i would think any increase would be from more people travelling in general and maybe from the newest attractions.

Definitely a lot of revenge travel is happening right now mixed in with the 50th plus for awhile out of the country travel was crazy so everyone is like: Let's go to Disney!

 

[ParkHoppers]

Based on the fact that I own mostly resale with cash. The cost of my dues divided by days spent in DW means it is just a deluxe room at All Star prices. Still happy with that situation.

 

[Boomatt]

The 50th isn’t what’s driving demand right now.

You’re not kidding. The 50th has been a total flop in my opinion. It feels like WDW fans are being pickpocketed for this particular celebration. I can’t think of a single 50th celebration ‘thing’ aside from some crap merch. Higher prices, a terrible version of FP that you have to pay for and get very little but frustration from, parks under construction, rides breaking down more than ever, nighttime shows that are less than what they replaced…. Whew, what a party! Aside from the logo, the only 50s that matter at WDW right now is that it feels like we are getting 50% of the magic that we used to and are paying 50% more for it.

The Year of a Million Dreams was a celebration. I remember getting excited every time a cast member would do so much as walk towards our general direction or make eye contact with us. The hope that you were going to get a little surprise just made being there so much more exciting! Seeing others get pixie dusted was great too.

 

[Bing Showei]

We've seen it and used it as the buzz-phrase on here for years. Well guess what? It's a good thing, because that's about all that's left anyway.

I can’t tell if you’re begrudgingly coming around to accepting what we bought or somehow blaming the state of things on those who have warned about this for years.

No one wants Disney to run its timeshare this way except perhaps the Disney apologists and apostles who take no issues with the direction DVD, hand-in-hand with DVCMC who has shirked their fiduciary responsibilities, is changing the product.

The resale restrictions should leave little doubt in people’s minds that at its very core, Disney’s ”vacation club” really is just a timeshare, a room you are paying for in bulk for a discount. It’s not a “buzz-phrase,” it’s a reality.

The danger in forgetting this is it not only ripens the soil for that bitter disappointment, but it lays down the foundation for owners of Disney’s timeshare to acquiesce when some of the few, core rights spelled out in the POS are trampled, all for the sake of enjoying the “magic” of “club membership.”

The resale restriction are a violation of the terms laid out in the aforementioned POS which state resorts may only enter the exchange under materially similar terms as current member resorts. Implementation of the restrictions clearly violates this.

Disney was wise enough to grandfather everyone who owned as of January 2019; not to satisfy those terms, but rather to quell any potential blowback. A few on the boards reached out and spoke to management about it, some grumbled about it, most weren’t affected or didn’t care about it, and a handful of vocal others have openly defended or reasoned away Disney’s actions. But the totality of all of us on these forums is a drop in the ownership bucket.

99% of owners don’t know/ don’t care because no one wants to think about this **** when we’re busy making magical memories with our families. It can be a bit of a buzz kill.

Disney knows that one the biggest things that sells their timeshare product is the ability to stay at the multiple resorts. Something that became a fundamental part of the product is now a developer marketing instrument, and a very effective one at that.

What’s next on the chopping block? 11/7 month booking? Nothing in the POS protects three of those precious extra months every owner enjoys today either. In fact nothing guarantees the BVTC exchange at all.

Until Disney is able to reduce the product down to the bare minimum for what owners will still be willing to pay for, money is being left on the table. When that does happen, there will be no reason for any incentives at all. For every resort they open with the resale restrictions, Disney will get closer and closer to that vision and achieving parity with every other timeshare in the market.

Maybe then that “buzz-phrase” will finally hit home.

 

[jimim]

Yes. The world of Hogwarts is lots of fun. LOTR too. Sea World, no. After seeing these spectacular creatures in the wild and knowing they are intelligent and have family oriented behavior, I cannot support Sea World.

Agree after spending many summers on orca island out west and going with a private guide off the island I will never set foot in sea world. Just me. But having orcas swim around your boat and breaching all around u is a hate act to follow. Just the overall Oregon Washington coast is hard too in general.

 

[jimim]

I don’t need a AP discount even. Just let me buy em. That’s it. And I’ll be happy.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

I agree with OP, and it’s changed the way I plan our trips. Home is SSR, which we love, but next two trips are trips with a purpose - post- cruise in Dec and post-family business in Feb. As a result, we’re changing it up and focusing on the resorts and what to do at the resort and on property but not park focused. So Dec is Boardwalk with the pool and the walkable/boatable restaurants, while Feb is Wilderness Lodge and the monorail loop/boats, and the spa at the Grand Floridian.
Will we park? Yeah, maybe one or two, but they aren’t the focus.

 

[LRdismom]

My gripe is also with the APs being taken away. Not fair at all.

 

[crisi]

I can’t tell if you’re begrudgingly coming around to accepting what we bought or somehow blaming the state of things on those who have warned about this for years.

No one wants Disney to run its timeshare this way except perhaps the Disney apologists and apostles who take no issues with the direction DVD, hand-in-hand with DVCMC who has shirked their fiduciary responsibilities, is changing the product.

The resale restrictions should leave little doubt in people’s minds that at its very core, Disney’s ”vacation club” really is just a timeshare, a room you are paying for in bulk for a discount. It’s not a “buzz-phrase,” it’s a reality.

The danger in forgetting this is it not only ripens the soil for that bitter disappointment, but it lays down the foundation for owners of Disney’s timeshare to acquiesce when some of the few, core rights spelled out in the POS are trampled, all for the sake of enjoying the “magic” of “club membership.”

The resale restriction are a violation of the terms laid out in the aforementioned POS which state resorts may only enter the exchange under materially similar terms as current member resorts. Implementation of the restrictions clearly violates this.

Disney was wise enough to grandfather everyone who owned as of January 2019; not to satisfy those terms, but rather to quell any potential blowback. A few on the boards reached out and spoke to management about it, some grumbled about it, most weren’t affected or didn’t care about it, and a handful of vocal others have openly defended or reasoned away Disney’s actions. But the totality of all of us on these forums is a drop in the ownership bucket.

99% of owners don’t know/ don’t care because no one wants to think about this **** when we’re busy making magical memories with our families. It can be a bit of a buzz kill.

Disney knows that one the biggest things that sells their timeshare product is the ability to stay at the multiple resorts. Something that became a fundamental part of the product is now a developer marketing instrument, and a very effective one at that.

What’s next on the chopping block? 11/7 month booking? Nothing in the POS protects three of those precious extra months every owner enjoys today either. In fact nothing guarantees the BVTC exchange at all.

Until Disney is able to reduce the product down to the bare minimum for what owners will still be willing to pay for, money is being left on the table. When that does happen, there will be no reason for any incentives at all. For every resort they open with the resale restrictions, Disney will get closer and closer to that vision and achieving parity with every other timeshare in the market.

Maybe then that “buzz-phrase” will finally hit home.

Moreover, a lot of us have used this - to recoin the term - buzz-kill-phrase - to discourage people from buying when they've snorted too much pixie dust and are unable to see the reality. i.e. BEFORE they make a financial decision that is a lot of money to a lot of people based off emotion and trusting Disney. Or to question if they should retain it when they are deeply unhappy and disillusioned. There are a LOT of people for whom DVC has worked very well - even if it is "just a room" it works well for them (I've been, by and large, one of them). And even with resale restrictions and Genie+ and ME going away and increased prices - that will continue to be the case.

Once you own, then the question is "are you getting enough value to retain ownership." Its now a sunk cost (other than dues) with salvage value (that may exceed the purchase price). If you are content, then stick with it. If you aren't, sell. Its worth asking that question ever few years. And content doesn't need to be content with WDW as a whole - we are content because we like HHI in Winter and we can rent out points to more than cover dues. So I can be disappointed with ticket price increases and Genie+ and ME disappearing.... and have it not really affect me at all

 

[redboat45]

Multiple times. I was a LOTRs fan before Harry but my boys and I are huge Potter fans. DD never got into them but she loves big coasters and has outgrown WDW - we’re looking at adding Sea World into the mix next summer. I’ve heard they have some impressive coasters

Sea World is AWESOME! Great choice to add in. And they LOVE their passholders!!!!!!

 

[redboat45]

I think Epic Universe will be a game changer for Disney. Epic will have a lot more kid friendly rides so a better competition to MK.... as long as they veer a bit away from so many screen rides.