Am I the only one annoyed by the "free upgrade" happening?

I don't see the majority of people who stay at a value plunking down $16,000+ for a vacation club membership. There is no value there. :confused3 .


I posted this on page 26 of this thread just inset Deluxe where I put the word mod:

I disagree.

I do not think that someone who stays a mod is necessary a better candidate to buy a DVC than someone who stays at a value.

The values are very child friendly and geared toward young children.
Many young families who would like to vacation at Disney yearly will be staying at a value resort.

Also many wealthy people stay at the values.
there is a very interesting book titled :The Millionaire Next Door: by Thomas J. Stanley,William D. Danko.
It explains why so many wealthy choose to be frugal with their income.

I know we have a high income and value is where we usually choose to stay. Our children are grown and I need a room that has a roll in shower. The values have very large HA bathrooms and the entrances of the values are much more handicapped friendly. I am able to get in and out of my All Star room unassisted. This way my husband can go and play a round of golf and know I can leave my room to relax by the pool if I choose.

The Deluxe rooms have a narrow hall with the bath on one side and closet on the other. I cannot open the door from the inside unassisted.

Here is thread that talks about why people choose different levels of Disney resorts and for the most part the resort choice is NOT based on persons income.

Annual income of deluxe guests vs. moderate vs. economy...

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1428659

Have fun planning your next Disney vacation!
 
Again, I submit that Disney is cheapening the DVC brand by upgrading from value to DVC...I've always equated my DVC accommodations and experience to a deluxe, NOT a value. That's why, IMHO, they charge so much for rack rate. And, that's why I paid so much to join DVC. And there's a reason why OKW & SSR are $300+ a night and attracts people who want that experience, and there's a reason why All Stars is $85 a night (including free dining).

I agree with you. You stated the argument very well and made the points that were made by the DVC sales team as well. Thank you for stating your thoughts.

- Chris
 
Also many wealthy people stay at the values.
there is a very interesting book titled :The Millionaire Next Door: by Thomas J. Stanley,William D. Danko.
It explains why so many wealthy choose to be frugal with their income.

Exactly, there are more folks out there like that than you think there are.

I have some friends going in September, they are pretty wealthy and have stayed with us at OKW in a two bedroom on past trips. They canceled on us and left me holding the bag on some points (I was able to invite someone else last minute :) ) But my personal rule is if you cancel, unless there is a death or medical necessity, I don't invite you back.

Well, they are going to Disney on their own. I asked where they were staying, in a suite? Oh no, they could never "afford" to stay at DVC on cash, or even a deluxe...they are booked into All Stars. They squeeze every penny.

I also had family friends that passed away 20+ years ago. He retired from Firestone Tire, and "mowed lawns" after retirement to make ends meet. His wife would buy whatever was cheapest in the grocery store...for instance if turnips were cheaper than potatoes, they ate turnips, etc. When they passed away, they had over 3 million $$ in cash squirreled away. A lot of good it did them.
 
If the "marketing" angle was indeed their intention, wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade families staying in moderates? One would think that if someone were willing and financially able to spend $30-40 more a night for a little nicer accommodations, they would be the better DVC customer.

And, if the "marketing" angle was Disney's intention, why not give the upgrade to guests that they know visit frequently, instead of staying in a certain resort? Again, one would think that a family that visits annually is a better DVC customer than the family that scrimped and saved for their once-a-decade Disney trip.

Can't argue with that
 
I would like to address some of these points from the other perspective.

I do not think that someone who stays a mod is necessary a better candidate to buy a DVC than someone who stays at a value.

I don't think we should rule this out for the majority of people staying in a Moderate resort. I would guess that they would stay in a deluxe if they had the extra cash. The only exception would be the fans of a specific moderate resort theming. Otherwise, a value would serve the purpose of a place to sleep. Instead, these people would like the little extras not offered in a value. If DVD could offer those who would prefer to stay in a deluxe the opportunity to do so, at the same or lower price point as a Moderate, it would be an easier sell. This model fit my wife and I for our honeymoon, and friends who look into a Disney vacation have expressed these thoughts to me as well.


The values are very child friendly and geared toward young children. Many young families who would like to vacation at Disney yearly will be staying at a value resort.

I think most of the resorts are child friendly in theming and amenities, becasue it is Disney and they expect children to be in tow most of the time. I would also speculate that most young families stay at the Value resorts because it is in their price range. Many young families are not as established in their career fields yet and may not make enough for $150 per night let alone $300. Thus, this would be a demographic that probably chooses based on price.


Also many wealthy people stay at the values.
there is a very interesting book titled :The Millionaire Next Door: by Thomas J. Stanley,William D. Danko. It explains why so many wealthy choose to be frugal with their income.

If the wealthy stay at a Value because they are frugal, wouldn't it save more money to be a DVC member in the long run? Yes, doing a one-off stay at a deluxe on cash is expensive compared to a Value resort, but DVC resorts can bring a solid rate of return over the life of the contract. Thus, I think these Value resort guests would be a prime candidate for DVC.


I know we have a high income and value is where we usually choose to stay. Our children are grown and I need a room that has a roll in shower. The values have very large HA bathrooms and the entrances of the values are much more handicapped friendly. I am able to get in and out of my All Star room unassisted. This way my husband can go and play a round of golf and know I can leave my room to relax by the pool if I choose.

The Deluxe rooms have a narrow hall with the bath on one side and closet on the other. I cannot open the door from the inside unassisted.

Based on this, I think your personal preference for a Value resort is unique to the population as a whole, because you enjoy the access these rooms offer. I think, however, a one bedroom at SSR offers excellent access as well as dedicated rooms for this tpe of access. Thus, this group of visitors would also be likely to enjoy a DVC room and may be upset if they are upgraded into a non-access available SSR room.

Here is thread that talks about why people choose different levels of Disney resorts and for the most part the resort choice is NOT based on persons income.

In doing a high level review of the thread, it sounds like the concensus is that people just do not want to pay Deluxe rates for a room they only sleep in. Given that many are avid Disney and WDW fans, they should seriously consider looking at DVC as an option, because it is less expensive over the long term. I think this would be the exact demographic DVD is targeting by doing the upgrades. This is also why my family bought into DVC. To stay at a deluxe for the overall price of a Value is too good to pass up, since we plan on visiting at least every other year.

In summary, it does seem that the Value resorts are populated mostly based on price. The people who stay there either do not want to or can not afford to stay in a Deluxe. If these people were introduced to the DVC resorts and given the full information, they would find out that they can stay in a deluxe at a much lower price point overall than the Value resorst, thus DVD could have more sales.

That is my analysis. Thanks for the input! Please let me know everyone's thoughts.

- Chris
 
I would be happy just to get a ressie at my home resort!!! struck out 2 years in a row. Maybe they'll expand the BWV!!!
 
I also had family friends that passed away 20+ years ago. He retired from Firestone Tire, and "mowed lawns" after retirement to make ends meet. His wife would buy whatever was cheapest in the grocery store...for instance if turnips were cheaper than potatoes, they ate turnips, etc. When they passed away, they had over 3 million $$ in cash squirreled away. A lot of good it did them.

That is sad.:sad1:

There is a line between being frugal and "squeezing every penny."

Thankfully we do enjoy our high income.

We choose to live below our means rather than to be in debt.

We live in an nice home and snowbird in SW Florida during January and Febuary.
We take several vacations a year and often stay in 4 star hotels but rarely pay rack rate. I do feel that Disney's Deluxe resorts are a bit overpriced and do not fill my personal needs.
If I wish to stay deluxe at Disney I choose to stay at the Swan or Dolphin resorts since they seem to meet my HA needs better than Disney. (JMHO)


We pay right away for everything. We do use the CC for convenience and to up our credit rating but each month it is paid off. We put all 4 children through college (our youngest just graduated in Dec.) without any loans.

We have a lot of money in investments for a "rainy day" or our children's inheritance whichever comes first.

We have a little less than 3 years left on our home mortgage otherwise we are debt free.


Does that make our family better than anyone else who goes to Disney whether they stay DVC, Deluxe, Mod, Value or offsite?

NO!

More fortunate than some maybe but not better.

Have fun planning your next Disney vacation!:wizard:
 
I would like to address some of these points from the other perspective.



I don't think we should rule this out for the majority of people staying in a Moderate resort. I would guess that they would stay in a deluxe if they had the extra cash. The only exception would be the fans of a specific moderate resort theming. Otherwise, a value would serve the purpose of a place to sleep. Instead, these people would like the little extras not offered in a value. If DVD could offer those who would prefer to stay in a deluxe the opportunity to do so, at the same or lower price point as a Moderate, it would be an easier sell. This model fit my wife and I for our honeymoon, and friends who look into a Disney vacation have expressed these thoughts to me as well.




I think most of the resorts are child friendly in theming and amenities, becasue it is Disney and they expect children to be in tow most of the time. I would also speculate that most young families stay at the Value resorts because it is in their price range. Many young families are not as established in their career fields yet and may not make enough for $150 per night let alone $300. Thus, this would be a demographic that probably chooses based on price.




If the wealthy stay at a Value because they are frugal, wouldn't it save more money to be a DVC member in the long run? Yes, doing a one-off stay at a deluxe on cash is expensive compared to a Value resort, but DVC resorts can bring a solid rate of return over the life of the contract. Thus, I think these Value resort guests would be a prime candidate for DVC.




Based on this, I think your personal preference for a Value resort is unique to the population as a whole, because you enjoy the access these rooms offer. I think, however, a one bedroom at SSR offers excellent access as well as dedicated rooms for this tpe of access. Thus, this group of visitors would also be likely to enjoy a DVC room and may be upset if they are upgraded into a non-access available SSR room.



In doing a high level review of the thread, it sounds like the concensus is that people just do not want to pay Deluxe rates for a room they only sleep in. Given that many are avid Disney and WDW fans, they should seriously consider looking at DVC as an option, because it is less expensive over the long term. I think this would be the exact demographic DVD is targeting by doing the upgrades. This is also why my family bought into DVC. To stay at a deluxe for the overall price of a Value is too good to pass up, since we plan on visiting at least every other year.

In summary, it does seem that the Value resorts are populated mostly based on price. The people who stay there either do not want to or can not afford to stay in a Deluxe. If these people were introduced to the DVC resorts and given the full information, they would find out that they can stay in a deluxe at a much lower price point overall than the Value resorst, thus DVD could have more sales.

That is my analysis. Thanks for the input! Please let me know everyone's thoughts.

- Chris


I agree with all of this. I was going to post the same thing earlier, but you put it much better than I could have. The majority of folks staying at a value are doing so because they don't have the extra cash. Just because there are a few people here that enjoy their high income levels but would rather put their money into investments, well, that doesn't mean that the rest of the people at the values are doing the same. Most people at values are there because they can only afford a value. By the way, we consider our DVC an investment. Everybody has their idea of investment. We're investing in memories now.

For the record, we were staying at WL and were vacationing for a weekend with another couple. We both had offers in our rooms to tour DVC and get $100 Disney Dollars. We thought it would be fun to go see and get some play money, we all toured together, we both bought contracts that same day.
 
.........

If the wealthy stay at a Value because they are frugal, wouldn't it save more money to be a DVC member in the long run? Yes, doing a one-off stay at a deluxe on cash is expensive compared to a Value resort, but DVC resorts can bring a solid rate of return over the life of the contract. Thus, I think these Value resort guests would be a prime candidate for DVC.

Based on this, I think your personal preference for a Value resort is unique to the population as a whole, because you enjoy the access these rooms offer. I think, however, a one bedroom at SSR offers excellent access as well as dedicated rooms for this tpe of access. Thus, this group of visitors would also be likely to enjoy a DVC room and may be upset if they are upgraded into a non-access available SSR room. .........


.In summary, it does seem that the Value resorts are populated mostly based on price. The people who stay there either do not want to or can not afford to stay in a Deluxe. If these people were introduced to the DVC resorts and given the full information, they would find out that they can stay in a deluxe at a much lower price point overall than the Value resorst, thus DVD could have more sales.

That is my analysis. Thanks for the input! Please let me know everyone's thoughts.

- Chris

Chris,

I agree with the above quoted parts of your analysis.

I have been hoping since OKW opened 15 years ago that a DVC will be built on the monorail line.

If the rumors are true and DVC is built at the CR (I am hoping!) we will be buying a DVC at the CR.

Thanks for sharing your well thought out analysis.
 
I know we have a high income and value is where we usually choose to stay. Our children are grown and I need a room that has a roll in shower. The values have very large HA bathrooms and the entrances of the values are much more handicapped friendly. I am able to get in and out of my All Star room unassisted. This way my husband can go and play a round of golf and know I can leave my room to relax by the pool if I choose.

Are you saying that only the Values provide you with the accessible room configuration you need?

I ask because I've seen the accessible rooms at Contemporary and SSR. (Not All Star Sports since my idiot brother didn't bother to reserve one for me on our '98 trip.)

Granted, the Deluxes tend to be older, pre-ADA built so don't have accessibility in mind. But then I wonder why you don't opt to stay at the newer DVCs instead? SSR in particular. As someone who uses a powerchair and needs that roll-in shower, I can attest SSR is one of the most HA-friendly resorts I've seen. (Only bad thing is that the unit doors are very heavy.) AKV will probably be the same.

As to the affluent opting for Values I can sort of see why. I know my family is not struggling and yet paying for a Deluxe hotel just seems outrageous to us. Of course since we discovered timeshares we can't imagine spending over $100-$150 a night for a room without a kitchen and laundry. That's why we only returned to on-site stays when we bought DVC.
 
Are you saying that only the Values provide you with the accessible room configuration you need?

I ask because I've seen the accessible rooms at Contemporary and SSR. (Not All Star Sports since my idiot brother didn't bother to reserve one for me on our '98 trip.)

Granted, the Deluxes tend to be older, pre-ADA built so don't have accessibility in mind. But then I wonder why you don't opt to stay at the newer DVCs instead? SSR in particular. As someone who uses a powerchair and needs that roll-in shower, I can attest SSR is one of the most HA-friendly resorts I've seen. (Only bad thing is that the unit doors are very heavy.) AKV will probably be the same.

As to the affluent opting for Values I can sort of see why. I know my family is not struggling and yet paying for a Deluxe hotel just seems outrageous to us. Of course since we discovered timeshares we can't imagine spending over $100-$150 a night for a room without a kitchen and laundry. That's why we only returned to on-site stays when we bought DVC.


I was saying I have found that for me the entrances of the values and mods are much more handicapped friendly. ( they have an angled entrance door )I am able to get my EVC in and out of my All Star room unassisted. This way my husband can go and play a round of golf and know I can leave my room to relax by the pool if I choose.

I will post the layouts of standard rooms since I as yet have not been able to find the layouts of the HA rooms.
These layouts do give you idea of the entrance door to the room.
Please keep in mind that my HA room at All Star Music always has a King bed with a roll in shower so there is more room between the entry door and the bed than the standard layout of the All Star room shows.

All_Star_Sports_Room_View.gif


The Deluxe rooms have a narrow hall with the bath on one side and closet on the other. I cannot open the door from the inside unassisted.

Disney_Polynesian_Resort_ROOM_LR.gif

Poly layout

Have fun planning your next Disney Vacation!:wizard:
 
We actually DID buy coming from a value!
When we first started going to WDW, we stayed Poly/CR. After that, it was either YC/BC. By the time our family grew to 5, we could not justify the cost of 2 rooms at a deluxe (college costs were looming :laughing: ), so we booked 2 rooms at ASMu. After two years of values, and facing 2/3 empty-nesting, we looked into DVC. Given the frequency of our trips, we realized that our future WDW trips would cost us less per day than ever-escalating costs per room through CRO, even if we stayed with values (which DH wouldn't............:snooty: ). By now, our trips to our "homes" have become our bargain vacations, made even sweeter by the AP discount and the DDE!
So, who knows? :confused3 There may be some of those "upgradees" who will also "see the light"! :rotfl2:
 
We actually DID buy coming from a value!
When we first started going to WDW, we stayed Poly/CR. After that, it was either YC/BC. By the time our family grew to 5, we could not justify the cost of 2 rooms at a deluxe (college costs were looming :laughing: ), so we booked 2 rooms at ASMu. After two years of values, and facing 2/3 empty-nesting, we looked into DVC. Given the frequency of our trips, we realized that our future WDW trips would cost us less per day than ever-escalating costs per room through CRO, even if we stayed with values (which DH wouldn't............:snooty: ). By now, our trips to our "homes" have become our bargain vacations, made even sweeter by the AP discount and the DDE!
So, who knows? :confused3 There may be some of those "upgradees" who will also "see the light"! :rotfl2:


While you upraded from Value, you were always deluxe guests until you needed multiple rooms. Sounds like if your family had stayed at 4, then you would have continued to stay deluxe, right? This is what my family would have done (were it not for DVC) as well. We definitely like deluxe accommodations...but if we had to get 2 rooms, we would have been at the Values, for sure.

I think one reason we see elitism (not just this thread at all--ALL of Disney resort discussions seem to have some undertone of socioeconomic class issues) is from Disney's own wording. The terms "value" and "moderate" and "deluxe" are just screaming economic class distinction. They just as easily could have labeled them Mickey, Donald, and Goofy level accommodations.
 
what promotion are you guys talking about? people are buying that value/free dining thing and being guaranteed an upgarde?
 
what promotion are you guys talking about? people are buying that value/free dining thing and being guaranteed an upgarde?

Some of the people checking into values from 8/26 to 9/01 were given upgrades to either OKW or SSR because their original resorts were overbooked. They had their choice of studios or 1bdrms based on availability and were able to keep free DDP.
 
Oops...almost forgot! There are also some people being upgraded due to construction noise @ AKL (but I'm not sure what the dates are).

The one thing everyone has to remember about these upgrades are that they come from CRO inventory and do not affect the availability for DVC members as these rooms wouldn't have been available through MS to start with.
 
I was saying I have found that for me the entrances of the values and mods are much more handicapped friendly. ( they have an angled entrance door )I am able to get my EVC in and out of my All Star room unassisted. This way my husband can go and play a round of golf and know I can leave my room to relax by the pool if I choose.

Ah, I see. How do you approach the door? No matter how a doorway is angled when it opens in, I always have to stand up and pull the door partway to catch it with my chair. My dad can't even reach the door over his ECV tiller.

We bring along a $5 rubber doorstop from Walmart. Someone opens the door, kicks it under and we both drive out. last person out kicks the doorstop out of the way and closes the door. I wish all the doors had those metal flip down doorstops. Or else on HA rooms had a catch when you swing the door open wide (something I've seen at retirement communities).
 

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