"breeder" refuses to send AKC registration papers

[ElizK]

WWJJD???

This is a "what would judge Judy do" question.

I was actually just envisioning them going on a show like that. LOL!

 

[ChitownFamily]

This is the answer. Hope they keep and love that pup. No breeding.

Yes yes yes! This was clearly not a reputable breeder. Too many red flags. No need to ask questions such as does the breeder know they are going to breed- bc this breeder doesn't care.
I second the vet check, since health or quality breeding is unknown. I'm so glad you (OP) seem to have a level head & common sense. Hopefully, they will not breed this dog, they didn't research, made a decision based on emotion (cute puppy) breeding this dog would equally more backyard bred dogs.
Almost everyone I know involved with animal rescue got there bc of a life lesson like this. A lot of good can still come out of a bad breeding

 

[wdw_girl_18]

I know some breeders have different prices for the same puppy. If you want it without the papers it is cheaper. If you want it with the papers it is more expensive.

If this was the case for your daughter and she paid more money for the papers, I would do something about it.

If not, I would let it go. Next time do not leave the breeder until you have the papers in your hand.

 

[Hannathy]

Sounds like "somebody" was telling them they weren't ready or prepared to get into breeding. Also teaching them a few life lessons with something not as expensive as other purchases or decisions!

I'm sorry for them, those first introductions into the cruelty of the real world hurt but we have all had them. I would keep trying to get the papers and I would leave reviews or messages if the breeder has facebook or any place I could
I would make a point of telling everyone I knew what happened and even visit the dog park and strike up some conversations so it gets spread around.

I would also love my new puppy who doesn't care if she has papers or not!

 

[My2Cinderellas]

Agreed. We have a registered AKC puppy and we were given limited registration papers as we are not permitted to breed him.

Also... They should not breed him without knowing his lineage. A good breeder breeds for the betterment of the breed and is trying to achieve something with a pairing. If they know nothing about their dog and it's history it's hard to do that.

+1. There are a lot of badly bred Golden Retrievers out there. Doesn't mean they are bad dogs, they can be great pets. But they don't always meet breed standards and can be prone to health issues. there are a lot of potential problems that can be screened for, and you should know the test results for not only your dog but his parents etc before breeding. Doesn't sound like this is possible so this dog should be neutered when age appropriate.

I also have a limited registration on my dog. Her parents were shown in conformation by the breeder, but we agreed not to breed her and cannot register a litter from her without the breeder's release. Had we wanted to breed her, we would have paid about 4 times as much for her and the breeder would have retained partial ownership. She was spayed at 5 months

 

[ChitownFamily]

I know some breeders have different prices for the same puppy. If you want it without the papers it is cheaper. If you want it with the papers it is more expensive.

If this was the case for your daughter and she paid more money for the papers, I would do something about it.

If not, I would let it go. Next time do not leave the breeder until you have the papers in your hand.

I have a hard time believing this statement applies to reputable breeders.

 

[sunshinehighway]

She needs to just take it as a sign that she doesn't know enough about dog breeding to try and become a breeder.

 

[kacaju]

She needs to just take it as a sign that she doesn't know enough about dog breeding to try and become a breeder.

agreed

I will say though...I am a co owner on a dog that lives with my friend. The dog has been bred twice and both times she does not register the pups until they are ready to be sold...Why? Because the sad truth is.. sometimes puppies die and she will not register them until they are a few weeks old. Because I am the co owner on the mother, I also need to sign off on the papers. My friend (who lives in another State) will fill out the paper work, address the envelopes to the new owners and she sends it to me.. I then sign where I need to sign...and I then mail it to the new owners. So it may not be such a bad thing not to get the papers in hand when you leave. I do realize every case is different

 

[sunshinehighway]

agreed

I will say though...I am a co owner on a dog that lives with my friend. The dog has been bred twice and both times she does not register the pups until they are ready to be sold...Why? Because the sad truth is.. sometimes puppies die and she will not register them until they are a few weeks old. Because I am the co owner on the mother, I also need to sign off on the papers. My friend (who lives in another State) will fill out the paper work, address the envelopes to the new owners and she sends it to me.. I then sign where I need to sign...and I then mail it to the new owners. So it may not be such a bad thing not to get the papers in hand when you leave. I do realize every case is different

The papers for my puppy were mailed to me. I had forgotten all about them by the time they came in the mail. It just wasn't important to me. I have no interest in showing her or breeding her so the papers are just that. ..papers.

 

[NewRVLady]

I know some breeders have different prices for the same puppy. If you want it without the papers it is cheaper. If you want it with the papers it is more expensive.

If this was the case for your daughter and she paid more money for the papers, I would do something about it.

If not, I would let it go. Next time do not leave the breeder until you have the papers in your hand.

I can tell you NO REPUTABLE breeder sells some of the puppies cheaper without papers-no way. They want to track puppies so they don't accidently breed with a brother...or half brother down the line

When litter is born, breeder sends for x number of forms. It is handed to you when you buy the puppy

there are SO many scams out there, its sad

 

[robinb]

I have a hard time believing this statement applies to reputable breeders.

Really? I spoke to many breeders when I bought my Standard Poodle and many of them had different pricing based on quality of the puppy (show vs pet) and sometimes gender. The breeders I talked to were members in good standing of the Milwaukee Poodle Club and recommended by the club president.

While the AKC registration itself is worthless, I do think there is a vast difference in price between a dog that is registered and one that is not. That's why the seller advertised the dog as AKC. OP, your DD may end up paying more to bring the seller to court, but it may be worth the satisfaction. I personally find the idea of buying a dog to become a backyard breeder to be repulsive, but she paid for the papers and the seller cheated her.

 

[nooneshome]

You need to be careful using the "b" word. It is a derogatory term for heterosexuals.

 

[NewRVLady]

Really? I spoke to many breeders when I bought my Standard Poodle and many of them had different pricing based on quality of the puppy (show vs pet) and sometimes gender. The breeders I talked to were members in good standing of the Milwaukee Poodle Club and recommended by the club president.

While the AKC registration itself is worthless, I do think there is a vast difference in price between a dog that is registered and one that is not. .

Yes, a breeder might sell not show quality pups for cheaper-but they cant determine that right at birth, when they register the litter

Litter registration is $25 plus $2 a pup-this is cheap!!!

So
it makes NO SENSE then to sell pups for a LOT less money without papers which only cost $2, and I honestly think this is a ploy for breeders who DONT have registered sdogs to trick the buyer
***********************************

To the OP from the AKC website-

The person from whom I got my dog will not give me papers. What can I do?

Under AKC rules, any person who sells dogs that are registerable with the AKC must maintain records that will make it possible to give full identifying information with every dog delivered to a new owner. This identifying information may be stated on a properly completed AKC registration application, on a bill of sale, or on a written statement, signed by the seller, that gives the dog’s full breeding information as follows:
◦breed, sex and color
◦date of birth of the dog
◦registered names and numbers of the dog’s sire and dam
◦name and address of the breeder

Buyers should not accept a promise that this identification or the registration application will be sent along later. It is the buyer's responsibility to obtain complete identification of the dog as described previously. If sufficient information to identify the dog in AKC records is not forthcoming, the buyer should seriously consider not purchasing the dog.

 

[ChitownFamily]

Really? I spoke to many breeders when I bought my Standard Poodle and many of them had different pricing based on quality of the puppy (show vs pet) and sometimes gender. The breeders I talked to were members in good standing of the Milwaukee Poodle Club and recommended by the club president.

While the AKC registration itself is worthless, I do think there is a vast difference in price between a dog that is registered and one that is not. That's why the seller advertised the dog as AKC. OP, your DD may end up paying more to bring the seller to court, but it may be worth the satisfaction. I personally find the idea of buying a dog to become a backyard breeder to be repulsive, but she paid for the papers and the seller cheated her.

You are right! I am fully aware that some show puppies vs companion puppies sell for different prices. This was a case of "Posting Before Coffee" I should have highlighted the part i was objecting- the part about price difference for no papers. NEWRVLADY thankfully stated it more clearly. Next time, coffee before posting

I can tell you NO REPUTABLE breeder sells some of the puppies cheaper without papers-no way. They want to track puppies so they don't accidently breed with a brother...or half brother down the line

When litter is born, breeder sends for x number of forms. It is handed to you when you buy the puppy

there are SO many scams out there, its sad

I have a hard time believing this statement applies to reputable breeders.

 

[mjkacmom]

They wanted to breed (they're adults.... they're not listening to me! Don't shoot the messenger). Plus, they paid a lot more for a registered pup than they would have a nonregistered but still purebred.

In that case, I really hope they never get the papers! Buying a puppy mill/backyard breeder dog is bad enough, but to then want to breed yourself?!

 

[robinb]

Yes, a breeder might sell not show quality pups for cheaper-but they cant determine that right at birth, when they register the litter

Litter registration is $25 plus $2 a pup-this is cheap!!!

So
it makes NO SENSE then to sell pups for a LOT less money without papers which only cost $2, and I honestly think this is a ploy for breeders who DONT have registered dogs to trick the buyer.

Well, yes. I'm sure that's exactly what happened.

FWIW, I never got my poodle's final AKC papers. IIRC she was provisionally registered but I never sent my proof of spaying to the breeder. I was too lazy. The papers would allow her to compete in agility even though she was spayed. She's not the sharpest knife in the drawer so she we never did agility even though her dad was an agility champion.

 

[Laura66]

In that case, I really hope they never get the papers! Buying a puppy mill/backyard breeder dog is bad enough, but to then want to breed yourself?!

I agree

 

[bedogged]

My DD and her husband bought a puppy from an ad they found on-line. (I know, I know... can we NOT rehash that, please? I tried to tell her it was a bad idea to buy a puppy from craigslist. LOTS of red flags with this transaction, but she fell in love with the cute puppy face.) The person promised to send the papers as soon as she received them. She's had the puppy more than a month now, and still no papers. She was told that she would send them, then told she did send them, and now refuses to take DD's calls.

She wants to take the breeder to small claims court. Any ideas of the best way to present the case, and what she would need as proof to support it?

This may end up being one of those life-lesson kind of things, I know. Actually, the same thing happened to my husband and me when we were pretty much the same age as DD and her husband.

Thanks for your help!

Unless your daughter has a written contract that specifically states the she will receive AKC papers, in my opinion, she is out of luck.

It would be helpful so see the original ad. This puppy may not even be AKC registered. There are a lot of different made up registries that have similar letters to AKC. In fact, the person that they bought the dog from may not even be the breeder of the litter. I often see whole litters that are purchased by individuals from puppymills in the Midwest. They take the puppies and sell them at a profit in an area that commands a larger price. They tell people that they are selling the puppy for their sister, friend, whatever. Often, rather than looking at the puppy at the "breeder's" house, he will offer to meet them halfway so the purchaser never really knows where the "breeder" lives. If they do receive papers, they have a P.O. box in the Midwest as the breeder address.

In my opinion, no reputable breeder will sell a puppy to someone they don't know without a contract requiring them to spay or neuter the puppy. Usually, the papers are not transferred until proof of spay or neuter is provided to the breeder. Reputable breeders care about what happens to their puppies. They require spay or neuter partly to be sure that the puppy doesn't end up being used as breeding stock in a puppymill. That is a horrible fate for a dog!

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

Wow, I've learned a lot from reading this thread! We always buy AKC registered labs from reputable breeders. We always get males and we've always gotten them neutered. And every time, as our dog gets older, we say, "boy, what a great dog, I sure wish he wasn't neutered so that we could take him to a breeder as stud and have one of his puppies." This of course never happens, because we always neuter them - for behavior and health reasons and because we want a squatter not a leg-lifter. As a matter of fact, our 15 week old yellow lab puppy is scheduled to be neutered and micro-chipped in 2 weeks. We just registered him and his papers say, "offspring of this dog not eligible for registration."

But from what I'm reading, am I correct in assuming that if we had wanted to stud him out to a breeder, his puppies wouldn't be eligible for AKC registration? Doesn't matter to us since we have zero plans for breeding and since he's getting snipped in 2 weeks, but just curious!

 

[bittybabygrower]

My Chessies are from champion lines, and we were given a copied set of oapers from each parent and a lineage sheet. We also received confirmation that their hips and eyes were certified. We agreed to not use our male for breeding purposes and had to sign papers. He is a master hunter. Our female we showed for a brief time and the owner of the mother dog was partial owner. Unfortunately she became sick and we were unable to show her. We had to have her spayed since they were unsure if it was something congenital that caused her chylothorax. True breeders who remain true to the breed are very careful with paper work and lineage. Backyard breeders irritate me. Unless you know that dogs whole lineage and no health problems are being passed on, you have no business breeding. And there really is not much money in it after you factor in all the costs, puppy care, paperwork. My parents bred Wire Fox terriers and while we had 4 litters of adorable babies I can tell you those days were a lot of work and the only reward was that we had quality beautiful healthy pups to offer.