BREXIT......How do you feel Brits? Excited??

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

The petition was actually started a month before the vote but only gained traction post referendum.

As for the claim that so many people were misled or misinformed is generally in reference to one particular point to do with NHS funding. As far as I was aware it had already been debunked as incorrect BEFORE the vote. I hardly think there is 1 million people willing to change their vote.

I think everyone just needs to start accepting this is the path we have chosen so we can start to sort out what we want from the negotiations

I agree with the bolded; the bed has been made and now people should have to lie in it bed bugs, fleas, scratchy blankets, and all. And from what I'm hearing from public statements, the rest of the EU also wants the UK gone quickly and I know the rest of the global economies want that, as well; if the Band-Aid is coming off, it's best to just rip it off. I don't think the UK will have much leverage in the negotiations, however, and I think the terms will trend towards what will be perceived as punitive, both to stabilize the EU and to send a very clear message to other members that nations cannot have it both ways. Given that the UK's leverage is shot, as the die has been cast, what Germany and France want is almost certainly what they will get.

I also suspect the negotiations to commence with Scotland and Northern Ireland shortly to retain them, but I openly admit that political analysis is not my forte so that is simply my opinion from what I'm hearing in the global press and from my friends who are experts in the area. I don't even know the process for bringing such referenda forward and therefore what is or is not possible.

It will also be interesting to see if Spain moves on Gibraltar. I doubt they'll be so foolish, but clearly that's difficult to predict in light of recent events.

 

[CPanther95]

Found this interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

It makes since that "What happens if we leave the EU" searches tripled after the vote. Most people thought there was no chance that the exiters would win the vote. There were almost certainly thousands of remain voters that wanted to know the ramifications of leaving.

 

[tony111]

I voted to remain, was disappointed with the result, but very angry at the amount of people who voted to leave in my home county West Yorkshire.Our region was badly hit by Margaret Thatchers war on the working classes in the 70's and have climbed out of the mire in the last couple of decades with the help of projects financed by the EU. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[maxaroni]

For me, personally, I am enjoying the conversations that this has created in our own family. DS's girlfriend studied in London a semester and just got home May '16. DS23 went over for a week to visit and see the sites. So, not only do we have the conversation about what is transpiring but since his girlfriend also visited Scotland, Wales and a few others that I can't recall, he's got a real interest in this. This is something that he will remember and think of as he has children and say he remembers history being re-written. Again, just a personal POV as we are heavily discussing all that is happening.

Times we are living in are changing, the world is changing in ways that we've never seen before.

 

[taitai]

One statistic I found very interesting was how the vote broke down. The young voting to remain and the old voting to leave has been well documented. The Telegraph today indicated that 70% of those who voted to remain had graduated university whereas 2/3rds of those who voted to leave had not completed school past age 16.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

There is no mechanism for a second referendum.
I do not think it will happen.
The die is cast.

ford family

I have to agree. The outcome is the outcome. Now the goal should be the best possible outcome, can't un-ring a bell.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

One statistic I found very interesting was how the vote broke down. The young voting to remain and the old voting to leave has been well documented. The Telegraph today indicated that 70% of those who voted to remain had graduated university whereas 2/3rds of those who voted to leave had not completed school past age 16.

I agree that is very telling, but be careful because according to a few posters on this thread, and despite the relatively close vote, EVERYBODY wanted to leave and to imply it has to do with educational level or academic achievement is elitist. I don't know what other conclusions can be drawn from such black and white data, but just a heads up that some who voted to leave do not seem to appreciate the statistical analysis.

 

[mom2rtk]

I have to agree. The outcome is the outcome. Now the goal should be the best possible outcome, can't un-ring a bell.

I can't even imagine the chaos that would ensue if votes started being cast aside when a vocal group didn't like the result. Their noise and action needed to take place prior to the election.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I have to agree. The outcome is the outcome. Now the goal should be the best possible outcome, can't un-ring a bell.

But the best outcome for whom? Because the best possible outcome looks very different to the two sides of the equation. This is a chance for Germany, France, and even Italy to pick up all sorts of European headquarters of global companies that benefit from being within the EU, for example, so the best outcome for them may be an outcome that walls off England and picks up Scotland and Northern Ireland.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I agree with the bolded; the bed has been made and now people should have to lie in it bed bugs, fleas, scratchy blankets, and all. And from what I'm hearing from public statements, the rest of the EU also wants the UK gone quickly and I know the rest of the global economies want that, as well; if the Band-Aid is coming off, it's best to just rip it off. I don't think the UK will have much leverage in the negotiations, however, and I think the terms will trend towards what will be perceived as punitive, both to stabilize the EU and to send a very clear message to other members that nations cannot have it both ways. Given that the UK's leverage is shot, as the die has been cast, what Germany and France want is almost certainly what they will get.

I also suspect the negotiations to commence with Scotland and Northern Ireland shortly to retain them, but I openly admit that political analysis is not my forte so that is simply my opinion from what I'm hearing in the global press and from my friends who are experts in the area. I don't even know the process for bringing such referenda forward and therefore what is or is not possible.

It will also be interesting to see if Spain moves on Gibraltar. I doubt they'll be so foolish, but clearly that's difficult to predict in light of recent events.

I agree that it's best to start the process. The vote is done and the decision is made, so ripoff the band-aid and move forward. The whole process has so much uncertainty, that it will be better for the global markets to start the process now.

The amount of work that needs to be done is momentous, so it's best to start now. UK is in a weakened point for negotiations, and that is what it is. I hope that there isn't punitive damage, but at the same time the EU will have to do what is best for its members.

As for Scotland and Northern Ireland, they will need to take a long hard look at what is best for their countries. Are there better economic advantages to staying in the UK or the EU?

I know the Brits will stay calm and carry on!

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I can't even imagine the chaos that would ensue if votes started being cast aside when a vocal group didn't like the result. Their noise and action needed to take place prior to the election.

I agree. We've all voted for candidates, or referendums, where we've won and where we've lost. It's always easier being on the side of winning, but the beauty of a democracy is the ability to accept the outcome and move forward.

 

[schumigirl]

Dear US friends please don't believe everything you see in the media. The majority of people wanted to leave because we have knowledge of living under the EU umbrella and the effects on our country. We voted to leave. We are happy we are now planning to leave. Please don't insult us by believing that what a handful of people claim was a misguided vote is the feelings of MILLIONS of us. Neither should you believe it was the vote of the elderly. From the apprentice hairdressers at my local salon, to my postman, owners of their own companies, employees of international companies, with degrees, without degrees, from 19 to 90 - LEAVE was our choice. End of.

Very true.

I have a 22 year old who graduates next month........he and all of his friends all voted leave.......they are a very informed group as you might imagine.......they had no doubts from the beginning how they would vote. He said when it was discussed there was only a few who were voting remain.......and one was a 38 year old lecturer.

I do object this view by some that we are all misguided and that we as oldies (I'm 48) were scared into voting.......utter nonsense. Just because they show one or two people on tv who say they regret their vote doesn't mean it runs into millions. I find it quite insulting.

The same people who say we are misguided are some of the ones who are scaremongering now, and posting what "some" people on the Internet are saying. Just because a few people post doesn't make it correct.......and a few people could be hundreds.........still isn't a true reflection of opinions. Someone posted an opinion poll earlier......there were just under 2000 people involved.........far too small a demographic to be even remotely accurate.

I have a friend who has a child with severe special needs, and I'll be honest.......she voted leave because where she now lives NHS services have suffered.......and they admitted the reason is they are swamped with incoming immigrants and cannot cope.........and before anyone asks.......no I don't have the "source" The source is my friend who is struggling to help her child. But, she is at least honest with her reasons for voting this way and I dare say there are others who did so as they see no change for the better coming soon.

I think some people who don't live in the UK get it, but there are others who seem to have become experts on the UK economy.........despite one of them saying recently he had been to Edinburgh and also he went to the UK???? Makes me smile.

I also don't think some people realise how long the people of the U.K have been asking for a referendum on this for.........I was a child when we joined and have memories from a young age of the dissatisfaction of people the way things went after not very long.

Straight cucumbers anyone??? Pounds and ounces...........

Found this interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

There were people who didn't vote.

If this is correct could it be those people who are now googling to see how it affects them??

Gotta love a sparky headline...........

 

[Oreo Cookie]

But the best outcome for whom? Because the best possible outcome looks very different to the two sides of the equation. This is a chance for Germany, France, and even Italy to pick up all sorts of European headquarters of global companies that benefit from being within the EU, for example, so the best outcome for them may be an outcome that walls off England and picks up Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I agree with you. The UK voted the way the did, and the decisions that will be made will be painful. There will be companies that move their headquarters, and people will be losing jobs. It's bad, but what can be done now? The vote has happened. I mentioned in an earlier post that I have cousins that live in London who voted 'stay.' He's in the financial sector and his future looks much different after the vote than before the vote. His life may not change in the short-term, but long term will be different. He's going to be weighing his best options.

 

[schumigirl]

One statistic I found very interesting was how the vote broke down. The young voting to remain and the old voting to leave has been well documented. The Telegraph today indicated that 70% of those who voted to remain had graduated university whereas 2/3rds of those who voted to leave had not completed school past age 16.

My boy has just finished his final year at University and he reckons 95% of his year group all voted leave........when discussed only a few said they were voting remain, and one 38 year old lecturer.

So it's not totally true of all demographics..........

What is it they say........85% of all statistics are made up.........

I do object to being classified as old though..........though I am University educated, have 2 degrees of which one is a Masters........so I guess I don't fit in that higher demographic either as we voted leave .........same with my husband.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Very true.

I have a 22 year old who graduates next month........he and all of his friends all voted leave.......they are a very informed group as you might imagine.......they had no doubts from the beginning how they would vote. He said when it was discussed there was only a few who were voting remain.......and one was a 38 year old lecturer.

I do object this view by some that we are all misguided and that we as oldies (I'm 48) were scared into voting.......utter nonsense. Just because they show one or two people on tv who say they regret their vote doesn't mean it runs into millions. I find it quite insulting.

The same people who say we are misguided are some of the ones who are scaremongering now, and posting what "some" people on the Internet are saying. Just because a few people post doesn't make it correct.......and a few people could be hundreds.........still isn't a true reflection of opinions. Someone posted an opinion poll earlier......there were just under 2000 people involved.........far too small a demographic to be even remotely accurate.

I have a friend who has a child with severe special needs, and I'll be honest.......she voted leave because where she now lives NHS services have suffered.......and they admitted the reason is they are swamped with incoming immigrants and cannot cope.........and before anyone asks.......no I don't have the "source" The source is my friend who is struggling to help her child. But, she is at least honest with her reasons for voting this way and I dare say there are others who did so as they see no change for the better coming soon.

I think some people who don't live in the UK get it, but there are others who seem to have become experts on the UK economy.........despite one of them saying recently he had been to Edinburgh and also he went to the UK???? Makes me smile.

I also don't think some people realise how long the people of the U.K have been asking for a referendum on this for.........I was a child when we joined and have memories from a young age of the dissatisfaction of people the way things went after not very long.

Straight cucumbers anyone??? Pounds and ounces...........




There were people who didn't vote.

If this is correct could it be those people who are now googling to see how it affects them??

Gotta love a sparky headline...........

I am impressed that you have been able to utilize both tautologies and circular reasoning in the same post. If you'd like me to diagram it for you, I'd be happy to do so, but I suspect you're not interested so I'll save the effort for now...Please just let me know, although I'm about to head out to a movie with my family so it may be a while until I get back to you!

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I am impressed that you have been able to utilize both tautologies and circular reasoning in the same post. If you'd like me to diagram it for you, I'd be happy to do so, but I suspect you're not interested so I'll save the effort for now...Please just let me know, although I'm about to head out to a movie with my family so it may be a while until I get back to you!

4/10

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I agree that is very telling, but be careful because according to a few posters on this thread, and despite the relatively close vote, EVERYBODY wanted to leave and to imply it has to do with educational level or academic achievement is elitist. I don't know what other conclusions can be drawn from such black and white data, but just a heads up that some who voted to leave do not seem to appreciate the statistical analysis.

6/10

 

[schumigirl]

I am impressed that you have been able to utilize both tautologies and circular reasoning in the same post. If you'd like me to diagram it for you, I'd be happy to do so, but I suspect you're not interested so I'll save the effort for now...Please just let me know, although I'm about to head out to a movie with my family so it may be a while until I get back to you!

Lol........I'm impressed.........I would respond directly but I feel the irony would be lost on you.....

Enjoy your movie..........

 

[Oreo Cookie]

My boy has just finished his final year at University and he reckons 95% of his year group all voted leave........when discussed only a few said they were voting remain, and one 38 year old lecturer.

So it's not totally true of all demographics..........

What is it they say........85% of all statistics are made up.........

I do object to being classified as old though..........though I am University educated, have 2 degrees of which one is a Masters........so I guess I don't fit in that higher demographic either as we voted leave .........same with my husband.

The vote was 52% to leave and 48% to stay. You keep posting as if everyone voted to leave, and that's just not true. Exit data is an important tool, it won't change the outcome, but there's value to knowing the demographics. For example, look at the voting in Scotland, they voted overwhelmingly to stay. What happens if they do vote to leave the UK? Is the EU a better economic deal for them? I don't know, but they should have the right to vote for the best direction of their country.

So, I know that the vote went the way the you wanted it to, so I am curious as to how you see the negotiations going. I do worry about the outcome of the negotiations because I have family that is in financial sector, and because I worry about the overall effect on the global markets (which concern me directly).

The 'stay' camp must accept the results, that's the way voting works, but not everyone is overjoyed and celebrating.

 

[pat fan]

Another thought, if there is something to compare to the American Revolution is that this may be more like what happened after. The Articles of Confederation were a mess, so this might be something like Virginia saying, "We're strong, so we aren't going to be part of these United States anymore and want to 'opt out'." Anti-Federalism was very strong in certain parts and so it wasn't USA first, state second like we are more used to now. People did not want Boston deciding what happened in Atlanta for example. Pragmatism vs a British army won out and the Founding Fathers despite the anti-Federalist sentiments found away to get 13 regions with their own "best interests" to come together even if it meant letting other regions get a vote on what happened in their states. Slavery or states rights depending on your POV remained contentious for decades, and recent events show the divisions are still there.

You could say it was like the Civil War, where the south fought the north because they didn't want them telling them what to do. How many lives would have been saved if we went the ballot box route there instead of the way it went down!