Cabins at Fort Wilderness Points Charts Posted! For Sale and Booking Dates too!

[eticketplease]

Do you think RIV point charts will be better than Poly? RIV doesn’t have a 1 BR with 2 full bathrooms. If Poly has this (I’m hoping for it) then the point chart might be slightly better than RIV. . It might be in between a 1 BR and 2 BT at RIV. I’m thinking if BLT as a comparison because it has this room layout.

Right now the points charts are better at RIV.

The plans did show 2 full baths in the 1 BR and 3 in the 2 BR similar to Kidani and BLT although I believe it looked more like VDH with shower only in the additional unit not a bath/shower combo.

If you are right the about being between the the 1 & 2 BR at Riv I would probably take it as we value the extra bath but don't necessarily need the space of the 2 BR and could save some points this way.

 

[MyDogTink]

Right now the points charts are better at RIV.

The plans did show 2 full baths in the 1 BR and 3 in the 2 BR similar to Kidani and BLT although I believe it looked more like VDH with shower only in the additional unit not a bath/shower combo.

If you are right the about being between the the 1 & 2 BR at Riv I would probably take it as we value the extra bath but don't necessarily need the space of the 2 BR and could save some points this way.

This is exactly us! We don’t need 2 BRs…we just need 2 full bathrooms. lol.

 

[eticketplease]

This is exactly us! We don’t need 2 BRs…we just need 2 full bathrooms. lol.

Yup that is the main reason we love BLT

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe the county is using some AI technology. If so, a lot of the tiny human error mistakes I mention below may no longer exist.

Thing with the occompt website is the people manually entering the thousands of records do make mistakes. (I can't imagine how boring performing all that repetitive work would be).

• You can enter DISN into the Either Party Name field. This helps when someone accidentally enters the name Disnee. I recommend the Either Party Name field because once in awhile, they flip the Grantee and Grantor field when entering them. (I believe they have someone go back through several days later. I used to download the records day they were recorded and then look at the same data several weeks later and they would fix some issues).
• Sometimes, the person entering will select the wrong type of record. If I searched only for Deeds, I would sometimes miss sales.
• I recall seeing is them entering the Legal name for the association wrong. This tends to happen more often for newer associations. When I tracked sales, I would perform an association search. Maybe one in a few thousand records, the person entering the data for the county would not have Disney in there at all. They would accidentally have Marriot or something else in there. (Guessing they had entered a few hundred records for that Grantee.

We are all human and make mistakes. When I tracked sales, I always double and sometimes triple checked. Easy to make mistakes when looking at this information.

They are an LLC…the updated POS documents on the member website seem to indicate the change as well.

 

[maui22]

Two things stand out for the new documents.

1. We no longer see units or percentage of units. I believe this will make it harder for us to track data. We no longer know unit 1A is 95% sold...which provided us insight into when another declaration would happen.
   • Without units, does Disney benefit? Previously, they may have had 99 points in unit 1A and 99 points in unit 1B, they couldn't sell a 100 point contract. Didn't they have to acquire more points OR break the contract up into smaller point amounts.
   • If this is correct about no longer needing to acquire points in a unit, this may significantly benefit Disney with regard to ROFR.
2. With the new VOI, will we even know when a fixed week is purchased?
   With the lack of unit information, Disney may only be required to report the points sold (based on the points for the fixed week purchase).
   • Wait for a fixed week deed with different language specifying it's a fixed week.
   • Wait for someone who purchases a fixed week to lookup their document and post if it Disney isn't reporting it as a fixed week deed under the trust format.

 

[Sandisw]

Two things stand out for the new documents.

1. We no longer see units or percentage of units. I believe this will make it harder for us to track data. We no longer know unit 1A is 95% sold...which provided us insight into when another declaration would happen.
   • Without units, does Disney benefit? Previously, they may have had 99 points in unit 1A and 99 points in unit 1B, they couldn't sell a 100 point contract. Didn't they have to acquire more points OR break the contract up into smaller point amounts.
   • If this is correct about no longer needing to acquire points in a unit, this may significantly benefit Disney with regard to ROFR.
2. With the new VOI, will we even know when a fixed week is purchased?
   With the lack of unit information, Disney may only be required to report the points sold (based on the points for the fixed week purchase).
   • Wait for a fixed week deed with different language specifying it's a fixed week.
   • Wait for someone who purchases a fixed week to lookup their document and post if it Disney isn't reporting it as a fixed week deed under the trust format.

The way the trust appears to set it up is that trust property is activated for sale under a trust use plan.

That property is defined and then points assigned. If you look at the cabins, it just says Phases 1A to 1G and that totals 229,800k points.

Based on the way the deed is written, it’s a contract that just says how many points were bought to use in the place, so I don’t think we will have any idea what is sold because the points are one big pool attached to whatever property is activated in a plan.

That is why I think we could be in for some changes as time goes own because they can just add more property and up the points.

They could also create more than one trust use plan with property elsewhere. But it does say the points are assigned to a specific plan.

But, one of the deeds I see is for 158 points…which seems an odd number. Could that be a fixed week?

 

[ehh]

Largest sale was 200 points. Second largest was 158. Most common was 150 which I expected followed by small contracts of 50-70 points.

158 is a conspicuous number...anybody have the Favorite Week chart for CFW?

Found them and it’s definitely that ownership is different in what your deed is attached to.

It is also interesting that DVD is now an LLC and no longer a corporation.

Curiously, the LLC has also been showing up in VDH deeds recorded in California's OCRW since Jan 16 of this year. But not all recorded deeds, just some (37 of 217). (The LLC also showed up in two deeds back in May 17, 2023)

 

[mkatsy]

158 is a conspicuous number...anybody have the Favorite Week chart for CFW?


Curiously, the LLC has also been showing up in VDH deeds recorded in California's OCRW since Jan 16 of this year. But not all recorded deeds, just some (37 of 217). (The LLC also showed up in two deeds back in May 17, 2023)

at the Florida DBPR they went on a rally and amended a bunch of documents from INC to LLC. I don't know if it's housekeeping and they are cleaning up records, or it's a change. I'll go look for the link. Edit: It was January 19th that they filed an amendment to update the name

 

[maui22]

The way the trust appears to set it up is that trust property is activated for sale under a trust use plan.

That property is defined and then points assigned. If you look at the cabins, it just says Phases 1A to 1G and that totals 229,800k points.

Based on the way the deed is written, it’s a contract that just says how many points were bought to use in the place, so I don’t think we will have any idea what is sold because the points are one big pool attached to whatever property is activated in a plan.

I suspect we will know what is sold (at least initially). Wil at DVCNews does a great job tracking DVD direct sales. For this, we will know points sold, but it means DVD can get closer to the 2% of unsold level than they could before.

Not sure if anyone tracks contracts DVD gets back ROFR, foreclosures, etc. If so, previous unit usage made it more difficult to follow. I believe it is simpler now. (Points sold minus ROFR, foreclosed, etc) divided by points declared. DVD can sell to the exact 2% of points for maintenance/breakage.

That is why I think we could be in for some changes as time goes own because they can just add more property and up the points.

They could also create more than one trust use plan with property elsewhere. But it does say the points are assigned to a specific plan.

The fact these points are in the CFW seems more likely this is specific to that FW area. If they were planning a larger trust to include tower, it seems silly to spend money in 1-4 to update documents. (Possible, but Disney could have easily waited 1-3 months and done this all in a single filing).

But, one of the deeds I see is for 158 points…which seems an odd number. Could that be a fixed week?

Agree that seems like a favorite week amount. Is it 10% more for a favorite week? What week would that be? I believe near Halloween and near Christmas are the super popular times at FW.

 

[ehh]

Favorite weeks are indeed a 10% premium with 'normal' rounding. A 158pt FW indicates a 144pt normal week.

Single-season full weeks are 111, 118, 132, 148, 160, 176, or 232 points at CFW in 2024/2025. So if it's a fixed week it's a week that goes across at least two seasons.

EDIT: After some guess-and-check, looks like Week 23 (Jun 9 - June 16) would match a 158pt FW.

 

[mkatsy]

They filed articles of conversion to change from INC to LLC

 

[mkatsy]

They filed articles of conversion to change from INC to LLC

They are updating their name in every state … getting ready for Poly Tower I hope

 

[Royal Consort]

They are updating their name in every state … getting ready for Poly Tower I hope

Yeh, this is beyond just CFW.

 

[CWTC]

They filed articles of conversion to change from INC to LLC

So, what does this mean? Is it a hint that going forward it will be a trust? Or is it something as mundane as changing the name for something like taxes/rules/appearance?

 

[Sandisw]

I suspect we will know what is sold (at least initially). Wil at DVCNews does a great job tracking DVD direct sales. For this, we will know points sold, but it means DVD can get closer to the 2% of unsold level than they could before.

Not sure if anyone tracks contracts DVD gets back ROFR, foreclosures, etc. If so, previous unit usage made it more difficult to follow. I believe it is simpler now. (Points sold minus ROFR, foreclosed, etc) divided by points declared. DVD can sell to the exact 2% of points for maintenance/breakage.


The fact these points are in the CFW seems more likely this is specific to that FW area. If they were planning a larger trust to include tower, it seems silly to spend money in 1-4 to update documents. (Possible, but Disney could have easily waited 1-3 months and done this all in a single filing).

Agree that seems like a favorite week amount. Is it 10% more for a favorite week? What week would that be? I believe near Halloween and near Christmas are the super popular times at FW.

They are going to have to file documents for sale of Poly tower anyway so I don’t see that as a roadblock.

And it may be that Poly tower won’t be the next project, but my opinion is this trust association is for more than the cabins.

Yes, the additional fee for fixed week has always been 10% but given this is different, no reports yet if that is the same or not.

 

[Sandisw]

They are updating their name in every state … getting ready for Poly Tower I hope

So that begs the question as to why it needed to be changed from a corporation to an LLC?

Does that impact the way they sell as a developer? Since CFW is being sold as a vacation plan interest and not leasehold condo, did it matter?

Or, is it a clue that things will be different for Poly tower?

 

[mkatsy]

So that begs the question as to why it needed to be changed from a corporation to an LLC?

Does that impact the way they sell as a developer? Since CFW is being sold as a vacation plan interest and not leasehold condo, did it matter?

Or, is it a clue that things will be different for Poly tower?

It’s intriguing…but far beyond my scope of knowledge. I have no idea why this would need to be done but it was definitely intentional and not just cleaning up records. That S Corp worked fine since 1990, and for some reason, it no longer does. Also, the S Corp pulled all of the licenses for CFW … for some reason moving forward they need/want the LLC .

 

[ocdb8r1]

I can't think of a single reason attributed to the product sold as to why LLC vs. S-Corp. Most of the differences and motivations for one over the other are ownership and tax based. S-Corps do have some subsidiary restrictions...perhaps because CFW has been set up as a trust there are some ownership/control issues relating to being an S-Corp that was solved by switching to an LLC.

I think we should be careful to assume that this was motivated by CFW or anything product related...it's just as likely (if not more likely) that there was some other internal benefit to the conversion.

 

[hockeydad21]

So that begs the question as to why it needed to be changed from a corporation to an LLC?

Does that impact the way they sell as a developer? Since CFW is being sold as a vacation plan interest and not leasehold condo, did it matter?

Or, is it a clue that things will be different for Poly tower?

I was under the impression the LLC/trust needed to be created because the Cabins technically are not a building, and instead they are considered more of a mobile home. Hence why they won't "refurbish" the cabins in 14 years, and instead will completely swap out original DVC cabin for a new cabin. You can't deed a mobile home that will technically be a different mobile home in 14 years.

At least that's my understanding. I could be completely wrong though.

 

[Sandisw]

I was under the impression the LLC/trust needed to be created because the Cabins technically are not a building, and instead they are considered more of a mobile home. Hence why they won't "refurbish" the cabins in 14 years, and instead will completely swap out original DVC cabin for a new cabin. You can't deed a mobile home that will technically be a different mobile home in 14 years.

At least that's my understanding. I could be completely wrong though.

Some speculate that is for the cabins only but that has not been shared by anyone at DVD.

So, we honestly don’t know what the reason is at this point.

But people aren’t even being deeded to the cabins…they are being given a RTU in the vacation plan that gives access to them.

They remain the property of the trust.