Current owners: Do you feel that renters are impacting resort availability?

[Anthony1971]

So I will add my 2 cents. We have owned for a little over 20 years. With this strong disclosure..... 20 years ago I cared about how many points I used. Back when I could book Value rooms at both BW and AK I rarely see any days when I look now. It seems the lowest point rooms for the most perceived coinvent resorts go first. So it is common to see the higher point MK resorts have availability over the lower point BW area resorts. Do rentals have an effect on this? I would have to say yes as it far easier to ask and get hundreds less for those resorts while making hundreds more for a week then the real going rate for just a DVC point based on availability. With that I have always stayed at resort I wanted a few waitlists that always came true. If your goal is to get the cheapest points room with what can be considered a good location you will be disappointed for now.... But from what I have seen through the years the points are always reallocated when there is to much demand at one resort and not enough at another and what was very popular is not as much after. BW/BC were 125 points (Summer) for a BW/Pool/Garden studio a few years back for a week now there are 116..... easily another night of vacation or rental for the same points. Do not think anyone is lowering the price for the week because of this would believe prices are going up as is Disney direct pricing.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Arguably, 20 years ago is a whole different game even for home resort, because the prevalence of online booking wasn't there.

 

[eandt]

Unequivocally, yes. Not even accounting for the automated scripts they are likely using, if they have 100 owners looking to rent with their site a month, they have 99 more chances of getting that hard to get room, as they pretty much tell you what room and date they want you to book and it’s always the most valuable (rarest) ones.

But wouldn’t you as an owner have the same chance at 11 months as those other 100 that only want the rooms to rent them out … if it’s not actually the rental company booking the rooms I am not seeing the issue … now if what you are saying is the companies or their designees are buying contracts at BW/AKL just to rent std or values then I can see that being a big deal but Disney should be able to see that I would think …

 

[Dis_Ron]

You wouldn’t want to lose the ability to rent out points. Maybe to solve this member pain point Disney could stop allowing members to rent out confirmed reservations.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

You wouldn’t want to lose the ability to rent out points. Maybe to solve this member pain point Disney could stop allowing members to rent out confirmed reservations.

How do they prove that's happening, though?

 

[samsp99]

How do they prove that's happening, though?

Simple - book a couple of reservations from prolific listers on facebook and other sites, and then track down those reservations to the owning members, and either give them a C&D order, or better block them from making online reservations - they need to go through the call center, and their accounts can be monitored for suspicious activity.

 

[Bearval]

The people renting points aren't the problem. It's the DVC owners who book high demand dates & accommodations to sell to renters that are the problem. I get that things happen and sometimes a member may need to sell their reservation due to unexpected circumstances. But there is a subset of owners who have turned their ownerships into a money making scheme by selling their points rather than using them for personal trips. One would think that DVC would exercise their rights to shut some of these people down but these "owners" are always one step ahead and are able to skirt the rules. I've owned for almost 30 years and never once have I rented out or bought someone else's points. I have a bit under 500 points at 3 different resorts. I honestly don't get why anyone needs over 1000 points for personal use. Once I'm done using mine I'll sell my contracts rather than try renting out since it's not worth the hassle to me.

I have to agree with you there. There are confirmed bookings for rent that when you breakdown the costs per points they range anywhere from $24 to as high as $38 dollars per point. These are clearly "for profit" rentals.

 

[Bearval]

But it’s owners renting them with the intention of putting them up for rent to non members…? Unless I’m misunderstanding something.

Yes it are these owners that makes it harder for you to book certain rooms at specific times of the year.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Simple - book a couple of reservations from prolific listers on facebook and other sites, and then track down those reservations to the owning members, and either give them a C&D order, or better block them from making online reservations - they need to go through the call center, and their accounts can be monitored for suspicious activity.

Dues would pay for that activity.

 

[Sandisw]

Simple - book a couple of reservations from prolific listers on facebook and other sites, and then track down those reservations to the owning members, and either give them a C&D order, or better block them from making online reservations - they need to go through the call center, and their accounts can be monitored for suspicious activity.

The thing is, nothing in the POS currently allows them to differentiate between the two and I don’t think you can say booking a confirmed reservation automatically makes it commercial.

DVC has all it needs to hold those owners of membership who are in violation of the current rules for renting for commercial purposes…they don’t need to do anything like trying to pretend to be a renter, etc,

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I want to hear more about these supposed bots/scripts that people think others are magically using to book rooms. While I can't believe such a thing exists (though it most certainly could but would require owners to share IDs and passwords), if it does; this is most definitely a violation of the TOS and may even rise to the level of criminal activity.

 

[bumbershoot]

All my fellow owners booking at the same time I want to book for are impacting me.

I don't give a rat's behind who is staying in those rooms or why they were booked.

It is not a concern for me.

 

[zavandor]

I want to hear more about these supposed bots/scripts that people think others are magically using to book rooms. While I can't believe such a thing exists (though it most certainly could but would require owners to share IDs and passwords), if it does; this is most definitely a violation of the TOS and may even rise to the level of criminal activity.

I do not have any knowledge, but it's the only reasonable explanation. Paying someone to stalk the website incessantly for AKV value ot BWV standard nights all day every day would be simply not economical.
Also, I don't think it would be too difficult to write something like that. We know there are ready websites that gather all the data to publish availability on third party sites, that's 3/4 of the work done. Clicking on "Book" to hold the room and then alert a human to complete the reservation would take minutes to develop to someone who has done the rest.

Personally, I'm absolutely fine with owners renting their points. Even if they rent all their points for years, maybe they don't want to sell, waiting for grandchildren.
I'm not happy with someone using tools that are not commonly available to have an edge over other members.

A simple captcha on all searches could mitigate that.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I want to hear more about these supposed bots/scripts that people think others are magically using to book rooms. While I can't believe such a thing exists (though it most certainly could but would require owners to share IDs and passwords), if it does; this is most definitely a violation of the TOS and may even rise to the level of criminal activity.

They exist. Google it.

 

[Brian Noble]

A simple captcha on all searches could mitigate that.

No it wouldn’t. Mechanical Turk makes solving them very cheap.

https://www.f5.com/company/blog/how-cybercriminals-bypass-captcha

 

[Bearval]

I want to hear more about these supposed bots/scripts that people think others are magically using to book rooms. While I can't believe such a thing exists (though it most certainly could but would require owners to share IDs and passwords), if it does; this is most definitely a violation of the TOS and may even rise to the level of criminal activity.

Poker bots were written and in use a few years ago so I can believe someone can code software to automatically search for rooms to book and walk them at earliest dates and times possible.

 

[Brian Noble]

I’ve said this before, but some of my students use a bot to try to join my office hour queue as soon as it opens. Rather than try to stop them, I open it, leave it open for a few minutes, then randomize it. I also have a priority scheme that gives preference to students who have not been helped recently, and the randomization considers that.

 

[zavandor]

No it wouldn’t. Mechanical Turk makes solving them very cheap.

https://www.f5.com/company/blog/how-cybercriminals-bypass-captcha

The agencies currently book AKV value because it returns the most money per point, but when you factor paying for an external service to solve the captcha for thousands of requests daily to find the reservations, would it still be more economical?

 

[lowlight]

The agencies currently book AKV value because it returns the most money per point, but when you factor paying for an external service to solve the captcha for thousands of requests daily to find the reservations, would it still be more economical?

They don’t have to bot it. I have direct experience with this. I went to rent my reservation when my plans changed, and they told me on the phone to cancel that week and instead book a high demand weekend in a Riviera tower and another holiday week reservation that I don’t recall off the top of my head. They had me do it while they were on the phone with me. I was so put off by it I didn’t end up renting through them. They weren’t offering me anymore for it. They are a terrible company and Disney needs to dismantle them for the sake of owners trying to use their own membership.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Poker bots were written and in use a few years ago so I can believe someone can code software to automatically search for rooms to book and walk them at earliest dates and times possible.

Oh, it can be done. I can do it. That's not the issue at all. The question is, where is the proof that it's being done? That was the question on the table. I can't see where the investment to develop it v. ROI would be worth it. People don't build things like this for free, and it's not hundreds of dollars to develop something like this.

I see these kinds of things thrown around on the web all the time. "Oh they just have a bot." because it's become a buzz word that people think they understand. What they don't understand is that these things cost $$$ to develop. LOTS of $$$. There's no $ in renting DVC rooms. Not the kind of money that the people that write REAL bots are willing to invest in.

We can certainly end this conversation in the thread as far as I'm concerned as it's sort of a tangent I guess. I don't think there are any real bots in use unless somebody can prove it. If somebody can, we have a whole 'nother Pandora's Box because THEN DVC is not living up to their obligation in securing our accounts.