D.O.C.'s = Dis'ers of Color (Disney Fans of Color)

[disneysteve]

Can the show exist somewhere in the middle, as something that takes (generous) liberties and is by no means perfect, but is thought-provoking and (hopefully) a research and conversation starter? Can people love the show and recognize the good things it does while recognizing the problems within it?

Totally. Very, very few things in life are black and white (no pun intended). The problem is we have come to be a society where everyone is expected to make a binary choice, yes or no, for or against, Republican or Democrat, etc. The reality is, or should be, that virtually every issue is nuanced. Maybe I agree with some of the things one party supports but oppose other things they support. And the same is true for the other party. Maybe I liked the music in a show but was bothered by the portrayal of certain characters. Maybe I support police reform while also having several close friends and relatives in law enforcement who I also support. Life isn't all clear cut choices, or at least it shouldn't be. Life is complicated. We need to be able to discuss things civilly and weigh pros and cons and make decisions based on a bunch of factors.j

Can you tell I was on my high school debate team?

 

[disneysteve]

I have mixed feelings about Hamilton and tbh “how do POC feel about __” questions rub me the wrong way. We’re not a monolith and when it comes to Hamilton specifically there is a wide ranging diversity of views.

Absolutely, which is why I worded my question as "I'm curious to hear opinions". I certainly don't expect everyone, regardless of race, to have the same view. Since this thread is populated by a variety of people, I thought it would be a good group to ask to learn how others feel about the show, having just seen it for the first time myself (as a white man). I'm enjoying reading everyone's responses, yours included.

As for exposing more people to theater, I think that is so important. And it doesn't have to be on Broadway. Off-Broadway shows are cheaper. Touring companies are cheaper. Community theater is way cheaper. Even high school productions are a great value. Yes you won't be seeing the hot new show that everyone is talking about but you still get that theater experience. In fact, at Off-Broadway and community shows, you often even have the opportunity to meet and talk with the cast and crew after the show. Experiences like that, especially for kids and teens, can be so formative. Reading a play in English class is nice, but seeing it brought to life on the stage is completely different.

 

[disneysteve]

Absolutely. Certain aspects of Peter Pan (both the film and the ride) are especially bothersome to our family. The Jungle Cruise also.

So many classic Disney movies (and movies in general), and the rides based on them, are problematic today. Heck, the very first thing I watched on Disney+ was Steamboat Willie. I was shocked by how culturally inappropriate it is. Smoking. Chewing tobacco and spitting juice. Abusing animals. There's no way they would ever make that cartoon today.

The question becomes what do we do with all of those classics, both movies and attractions? I really don't know.

 

[snoopboop]

I do not like any group being favored. Somehow that doesn’t hold water in today’s world.

Here in the US, anyway, the ”default culture” is white, and our entire society and all of its systems are built on that assumption. So you’re right - it’s imperative that we work to systematically remove the barriers to access and opportunity that are still very much prevalent in all facets of society.

I get so tired of everything revolving around race.

To be able to compartmentalize race issues (e.g. by wishing that we would just get OVER this whole race thing already) is a uniquely white privilege.

 

[mamaofsix]

So many classic Disney movies (and movies in general), and the rides based on them, are problematic today. Heck, the very first thing I watched on Disney+ was Steamboat Willie. I was shocked by how culturally inappropriate it is. Smoking. Chewing tobacco and spitting juice. Abusing animals. There's no way they would ever make that cartoon today.

The question becomes what do we do with all of those classics, both movies and attractions? I really don't know.

I agree that it's so hard to know what to do.

Our family loves the character of Peter Pan, but sitting through the movie and watching them sing "What Makes the Red Man Red," is uncomfortable for us as well as hurtful to our Indigenous children.

Could Disney perhaps re-release classics with those types of songs omitted? Sure, I I think it would be possible in some films to do this without hindering the overall storyline. Other pieces might just have to be kept in "the vault" forever and kept off of the streaming service. What they are doing now, which is simply including a line at the beginning of such movies that says "this was made at a different time, etc. etc." isn't quite enough, in my opinion.

Could they re-imagine the Jungle Cruise "Native Scenes" to something different, thereby ceasing the insensitive jokes that the skippers can sometimes make? Sure, that would be easy enough. I could see them totally revamping the Peter Pan ride into something equally as incredible without featuring a caricature of the sacred Pow Wow circle.

The best thing Disney could do right now would be to reach out to different cultural communities and ask their opinion on how they could change or tweek things in a way that is both respectful of the various cultures represented and also keeps the Disney magic alive.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

a black transvestite midget in a wheelchair

That’s a really odd and telling sentence. Perhaps think about why you would group a black person and a transvestite with someone with a physical disability?
I am going to share with you something that I worry about. My parents were born at the end of the 19th/turn of the 20th century. My Father was the epitome of a British gentleman. He was well educated, well mannered, polite etc. He never uttered a swear word or a racist comment.... until in his 90s he developed vascular dementia. He became another being, violent, aggressive, rude and racist. Truly horrible to the nurses who cared for him. My Father sent me to a Catholic prep school. My best friend was the only black child in the school; the adopted child of elderly missionary parents and yet, whilst at that school, we were taught that black people were godless heathens and in the class room there was a chart. Each pupil was represented by a black figure and if we were good our black figure climbed up the chart as we saved his soul and if we were naughty the soul was moved down. It was a brutal place and we were beaten, caned and strapped. I had a toy ‘golly‘ and a black doll dressed as a nurse; I played cowboys and Indians; I grew up watching Song of the South and I recited rhymes which I later learned were racist. When tv was available in the 60s I watched The Black and White Minstral Show, On the Buses, Some Like it Hot, Steptoe and Son etc. In my teens I joined Amnesty International and protested against apartheid but I have never worked with or known, as a friend, a black person. So my life has been full of ‘mixed messages’. I avoid using racist expressions but as recently as this week I discovered that certain expressions such as ‘nitty gritty’ and ‘squaw’ are racist and derogatory. I didn’t know, it didn’t even cross my mind. I (hope that I ) am not racist and I don’t want to be racist but what if, in my dotage, I develop dementia and all these horrible things that I have subconsciously learned come out? What if they are just ‘there’? Even worse, what if the next generation, my children and grandchildren, have been exposed to the same ‘subconscious’ racism? Read this ....:. https://www.flolondon.co.uk/all-pos...168549&utm_medium=social&utm_source=instagram
Am I wrong and utterly selfish to express these concerns on this thread? Absolutely! But I hope, with all my heart, that people will recognise a determination to change and to do better and also to accept an offer of apology for both past and future sins.
If the OPs thread educates even one person or makes only one person stop and think then it has achieved something.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

That’s a really odd and telling sentence.

Don’t read into my statement. It’s a statement meaning I’m not prejudice toward any minority group. That’s all.

Proving my point that some folks can be over sensitive.

 

[disneysteve]

I agree that it's so hard to know what to do.

Our family loves the character of Peter Pan, but sitting through the movie and watching them sing "What Makes the Red Man Red," is uncomfortable for us as well as hurtful to our Indigenous children.

I can tell you that it is also uncomfortable to watch it as a white man. Not in the same way, of course, but it definitely jumps out as being inappropriate.

Could Disney perhaps re-release classics with those types of songs omitted? Sure, I I think it would be possible in some films to do this without hindering the overall storyline. Other pieces might just have to be kept in "the vault" forever and kept off of the streaming service. What they are doing now, which is simply including a line at the beginning of such movies that says "this was made at a different time, etc. etc." isn't quite enough, in my opinion.

I think the disclaimers are important but I also understand that they don't solve the problem. At the same time, if we lock away every movie and TV show that has what is now considered inappropriate content, there may not be much left. So many films and shows had very stereotyped minority representations. We just watched The Love Bug this week. Great movie. As funny today as it was in 1969. But the depiction of the Chinese characters is not something that would happen today. It's a hard issue for sure.

 

[AKL Ranger]

Here in the US, anyway, the ”default culture” is white, and our entire society and all of its systems are built on that assumption. So you’re right - it’s imperative that we work to systematically remove the barriers to access and opportunity that are still very much prevalent in all facets of society.

To be able to compartmentalize race issues (e.g. by wishing that we would just get OVER this whole race thing already) is a uniquely white privilege.

Hello everyone,
Remember, please try to ignore the posts that are obvious tropes and attempts of click-baiting. Any post where the author is is suggesting or implying "we should get over it" / [I do not like any group being favored. Somehow that doesn’t hold water in today’s world. /
or if they implied "we are the ones being divisive, this is just another tactic to flame and distract us. or "I get so tired of everything revolving around race."

Please avoid using "@mentions" [avoiding/ delete the original posters member name from the quote] from those obvious negative posts. Those persons are trying to gin-up and provoke and using the quote feature and including their name gives them the attention they are seeking. If there is a constructive lesson and you need to copy the specific sentence, leave out the "@mention" of that individual's name.

Why? - Because we are employing Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr method of peaceful, Non-confrontational mindset.
By continuing with our conversations about the topics and content we share and not reacting to the negative "we should get over it" posts, then we are sitting at the "Woolworths" counter, peacefully waiting to be served, while ignoring the negative jeers of those who are resistant to positive change.

Please see this post again,
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d-o-c-s-disers-of-color-disney-fans-of-color.3806309/post-62099062

 

[AKL Ranger]

How is everyone enjoying their July 5th Summer Sunday?

 

[disneysteve]

How is everyone enjoying their July 5th Summer Sunday?

Better now that I’m home from work. Getting ready to make dinner. And you?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

How is everyone enjoying their July 5th Summer Sunday?

Doin well - actually at Hersheypark in central PA. Compliance of safety measures is a bit spotty (especially in the water areas) but the park is super empty (all the rides are near walk on, including their new hyper coaster) so pretty easy to avoid people if you need

Hope everyone is well - and ready for a new week!

 

[AKL Ranger]

Better now that I’m home from work. Getting ready to make dinner. And you?

Ok @disneysteve
What is for dinner?

 

[disneysteve]

Ok @disneysteve
What is for dinner?

BBQ chicken sandwich and green beans.

 

[AKL Ranger]

BBQ chicken sandwich and green beans.

Ok @disneysteve
I am checking NJ Transit schedule now

 

[AKL Ranger]

Walt Disney World Resort for October 1, 2021

Who in the DOC's group has confirmed plans to visit The Walt Disney World Resort, Orlando, FL on October 1, 2021, for the Magic Kingdom 50th Anniversary celebration?

I booked a few nights at the Hilton Orlando Buena Vista Palace Disney Springs Area.
I am hoping to get a reservation at DVC instead. AKL - Jambo House or BLTower.




What is it with pink castles?

 

[disneysteve]

Walt Disney World Resort for October 1, 2021

Who in the DOC's group has confirmed plans to visit The Walt Disney World Resort, Orlando, FL on October 1, 2021, for the Magic Kingdom 50th Anniversary celebration?

We have reservations 9/29-10/3 at Contemporary garden wing. It is a major splurge for us. We typically stay offsite. But I specifically wanted the Contemporary so that we could walk to and from Magic Kingdom on the anniversary and not have to deal with any transportation. We will most likely extend the trip after 10/3 and move offsite for the remainder.

Now I'm just hoping some sort of discount comes out because rack rate at the Contemporary is nuts. I'll pay it if I need to but I'm hoping a better deal comes along. One night costs as much as we typically pay for a week offsite.

Gilbert, were you there for the 25th? We were. I even still have the t-shirt to prove it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I’m booking 9/30-10/3 as soon as it opens up.

 

[disneysteve]

I’m booking 9/30-10/3 as soon as it opens up.

Didn't they reopen 2021 bookings? We booked before they closed it but I thought they opened it again on 6/28.

 

[JacknSally]

Walt Disney World Resort for October 1, 2021

Who in the DOC's group has confirmed plans to visit The Walt Disney World Resort, Orlando, FL on October 1, 2021, for the Magic Kingdom 50th Anniversary celebration?

I booked a few nights at the Hilton Orlando Buena Vista Palace Disney Springs Area.
I am hoping to get a reservation at DVC instead. AKL - Jambo House or BLTower.

View attachment 506697


What is it with pink castles?

I love the cakesle!

We don’t have plans right now to go during the 50th, but if our trip this December falls through, we’ll probably push it back to next October or December.

Didn't they reopen 2021 bookings? We booked before they closed it but I thought they opened it again on 6/28.

I thought they only opened through 9/26/21, so it cuts off right before the 50th. Has the rest of ‘21 opened??