Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[lawboy2001]

I’m just not convinced they are frustrated in all contracts because the act has to be impossible - not all points are impossible to rent but some are - so some contracts are frustrated and some not - but the longer this goes the more that will change as we are hitting a moving target - then DVC moved it some more - then DVC said can’t borrow more than 50% points - all will come into play which may in turn make all contracts frustrated

Good point! I share your view, and posted on it -- before reading your post

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

You are using impossible in 2 senses. There is a word used to describe something that can not be done. That is not legal impossibility. Neither can be used in a court of law to fix David issues.

Again, you are equating frustration of purpose as requiring legal impossibility. Legal impossibility is a distinct legal theory existing apart from frustration of purpose. They are different. They do not depend on each althought they are clearly often misunderstood and confused.
The contract is not breached but it is impossible. Alternatively the contract is not breached but has a frustrated purpose. After a decision is made on either impossible OR on frustration the 'reality' of the DVC points becomes relevant, but only to do equity for all parties. To be fair to everyone.

At the time prior to a ruling that the contract became impossible or frustrated the status of the points is not material.

If there is a breach of contract then it is not a case of frustration or impossibility. Period. Full stop. There are only contract remedies.

If the contract is impossible or frustrated it is NOT breach and breach of contract remedies do not matter. So at this point the language of the contract literally does not matter anymore. It doesn't matter if it is clear or not clear. If David wrote it or you wrote it.

A judge ruling a contract purpose is frustrated OR impossible is limited to equitable, not contract remedies.

I am completely lost how you say some owners can provide a room for last week. Before a Judge rules the contract has a date for performance, eg check in. The contract controls but after a ruling then the contract language does not matter. The judge is not 'fixing' the contract he or she is making things fair. Fair does not include ordering a renter to take a vacation at any time other than what the renter had chosen.

David is asserting his economic power and 'knowledge' over renters who seem less informed on their rights to advantage this nightmare in his favor. This has been successful, imo with owners who have a better grasp of the situation and generally more experience.

I’m order to rule on frustration it would have to be proved that the contract is impossible to be performed - not difficult - impossible - having points that are expired would accomplish that goal
The sole act of court / judge declaring a contract frustrated does not imply nor seek remedy it stops / ends the contract at the point of frustration
Because these contracts are so poorly written and covid they have met a few requirements for frustration but the main requirement is - impossible - is it impossible to fulfill obtaining a room? Some owners can honestly say yes some right now no - but as David drags this on more owners will be able to say yes as points become unable to be used or borrowed back to fulfill original contract amount hence meeting impossible making them frustrated
This DOES not give David the right to do anything that he is doing as a judge needs to rule on frustration
Maybe David should try working from the kindness of his heart for the best interest of someone besides himself - it would have done his business a lot more value and goodwill than what he is currently getting
Again just my opinion - others may very

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Things to ponder away on a Sunday with no sports and it’s raining !!

 

[Sandisw]

Things to ponder away on a Sunday with no sports and it’s raining !!

Well, NASCAR is on so made my day!,, 38 laps to go!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Look up what is required for a contract to be ruled frustrated - it has to be impossible to be carried out as written
The Judge will not offer remedy on frustration that would be another matter you would have to take to court
I am not confusing the two
Thank you for you long explanation

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I know if there is an issue for my renter in August, I will offer the following...reschedule the original renter, under terms of old contract.::not responsible for Future closure or forfeit my 30% to be released from the contract,

Not willing to agree to anything else,

I agree with this, and also, I am going to stipulate I get my 30% at the time I make the confirmed reservation. Even if WDW opens in July, there is a very good chance it may have to close again in the fall/winter months because all the science is pointing to a resurgence once the cold weather comes back around. I am not signing the new contract. If they want to screw over the renters by not giving them their cash back, then I won't feel bad if I have to walk away with my points. If they would allow us to just rebook our original renters, there would be no problems. Since they are not letting that happen, for some unknown reason, they can go pound sand.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Horse racing for me!! Just finished watching !!

 

[Disaseny]

Horse racing for me!! Just finished watching !!

Disney vlogs from just before everything closed.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

I would welcome you but it was effort to put together. I would far rather have had you read it. In my final response and opinion on your posts I have 2 things. First, All issues would be resolved in one lawsuit. You would NOT go back to court. That is just wrong. Below are a couple of links. My understanding is that if the link posts it is permitted and otherwise can not be followed.

Second, these are not mine or anyone I know. Since you mention research read what attorney's licensed and practicing in FL say. The primary purpose of the contract was a stay at DVC on exact dates and all parties knew it and participated in obtaining those dates. C19 was nobody's fault. Nobody contemplated DVC being closed owners responsibility or not.

https://millerjohnson.com/publicati...y-frustration-of-purpose-or-impracticability/
3 different things. "... impossibility, frustration of purpose, and impracticability may excuse performance of a contract ... If a contract does not specifically address impossibility, frustration of purpose, and impracticability, then we look to the common law and statutes, including the UCC.

Frustration of purpose is limited to situations in which a party’s primary purpose for entering the transaction is frustrated, through no fault of the party, by an event the nonoccurrence of which was a basic assumption on which the contract was made. And the excuse only applies if both parties understood that purpose to be a principle purpose of the contract."

https://www.akerman.com/en/perspect...s-and-implications-of-various-state-laws.html
Frustration of Purpose:

Frustration of purpose occurs when “one of the parties finds that the purpose for which it bargained, and which purposes were known to the other party, have been frustrated because of the failure of consideration, or impossibility of performance by the other party.” ... ”[33] The court highlighted that, in order for a the purpose of a contract to be frustrated, it must be due to circumstances beyond the parties’ control.[36]

Look up what is required for a contract to be ruled frustrated - it has to be impossible to be carried out as written
The Judge will not offer remedy on frustration that would be another matter you would have to take to court
I am not confusing the two
Thank you for you long explanation

 

[Amymouse13]

Seems an owner who received 70% and reservation was cancelled could offer to rerent those points as to fulfill the contract which was to rent points... I'd hard pass that money refund as it's not any part of contract. If you offer to rerent points and David's doesn't respond well that's on him. All this crud he's doing outside the contract is pretty creative but well but in signed contract. Just like my chargeback counter argument... This new contract isn't the one I agreed to.

Also seems doesn't matter if an owner cancels and banks if he can't prove you cancelled and not Disney right? Think this was a few pages ago and him being like don't cancel despite chances could prevent banking.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I did read your post thank you for assuming I didn’t
As to Florida law - read your contract with David if you have one - not done in Florida - you would have to go to Canada
Peace out

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

We've rented privately in the past (and the owners were awesome by the way -- never had to change anything but we understood.... we got a cheaper rate by assuming some risk and losing some change flexibility plus the owners got $ for points they weren't going to use.) Everyone was happy --- really a win-win for everyone.

This year in Dec we were looking for BLT/TPV at 11 months (+ 2 weeks out) and didn't see anyone listing points on various boards so we contacted Davids --- luckily it didn't work out --- so we booked directly for RO with Disney (with the discount it wasn't a huge amount of difference and I had a Bounceback I booked just in case -- although it gave us only a day or two of discount.)

I think this has totally made it clear to us --- that whatever we'd save with renting through a broker isn't worth it. Any insurance but "cancel for any reason" wouldn't have applied -- and when we looked into that it would have raised the price enough that going through Disney with discounts was close enough that we went that route. Maybe we'd rent directly with an owner again but never through a broker.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Reading pages and pages of all the legal complexities of this situation is starting to drive me insane!



RIP Jerry Stiller!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I’m sure going to miss him he was funny !! I’ve said that very statement several times regarding this mess - you hit that one on the nail !!

 

[lovethesun12]

Reading pages and pages of all the legal complexities of this situation are starting to drive me insane!

View attachment 495332

Honestly partly for curiosity and partly because I wanted to know where I stood when I talked to the rental company about this, I consulted a lawyer for advice on how to go forward.

The information I received was different from every single piece of advice offered on this thread. Not one single person, I repeat, not one post offered the advice I received.

 

[McCrae]

Honestly partly for curiosity and partly because I wanted to know where I stood when I talked to the rental company about this, I consulted a lawyer for advice on how to go forward.

The information I received was different from every single piece of advice offered on this thread. Not one single person, I repeat, not one post offered the advice I received.

what was your advice?

 

[McCrae]

Reading pages and pages of all the legal complexities of this situation are starting to drive me insane!

View attachment 495332

7 different lawyers will give you 7 different opinions.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

One thing to keep in mind is this company is located in Canada so there might be a bit of a twist should you seek to pursue a lawsuit with David's. You will need find a lawyer who can handle international cases.

 

[Yinn]

what was your advice?

We know what it’s not.
- Claim chargeback
- Small claims
- Contact the owner
- Contact Davids
- Take the voucher
- Don’t take the voucher

My guess - Do nothing, wait it out. Or was that suggested and I missed it?

 

[Maddiesmum03]

I agree with this, and also, I am going to stipulate I get my 30% at the time I make the confirmed reservation. Even if WDW opens in July, there is a very good chance it may have to close again in the fall/winter months because all the science is pointing to a resurgence once the cold weather comes back around. I am not signing the new contract. If they want to screw over the renters by not giving them their cash back, then I won't feel bad if I have to walk away with my points. If they would allow us to just rebook our original renters, there would be no problems. Since they are not letting that happen, for some unknown reason, they can go pound sand.

I got my 30% on re renting the points, not on the new check in date. I did not care for the wording of the new contract that was sent after payment, because it had that same bit about the owner having to pay the $$$$ renters paid for the reservation if accommodation is not available, or even more if David's chooses alternative accommodation for more money!!!!
I emailed back stating that the reservation had been made with goodwill, the money I received was for my original contract which is now complete, I do not accept the contract sent represents the circumstances of the re rental of points and that I would categorically not refund any money for this reservation if Disney decides to shut the resort, but I would again try to re rent for another date (they are Aug 2020 points so will still be good for a while yet!) . I had a reply confirming payment was for the original rental and this was just their standard contract. I'm not 100% happy, but will just have to see how things pan out for next March and at least I have the email trail.