Delta reducing the ability to recline seats

[ronandannette]

I know exaggeration is normal online, but every time this comes up, I think "what airlines are they flying"? About 4 years ago, I was flying Delta home from an event and had gotten upgraded to the "comfort+" seating. Before we got off the plane (after we were on the ground), I reclined the seat all the way so I could get a picture of how much this recline really is.

That looks like 2-3" to me. I don't see anyway that's even close to being in someone's lap. And if the seat truly "reclines", wouldn't the bottom of the seat back then be moved forward?

Next time you fly, do the same thing I did... recline the seat all the way and then take a picture.

So completely correct about the exaggeration part. Somebody in front of me reclines and I barely even notice it unless I've got a drink on my tray and it jostles a bit. It wouldn't occur to me to be cranky because they're "in my space" - that issue is minuscule compared to the discomfort of having to sit bolt-upright for several hours. (Admittedly this may be a bigger issue for "passengers of size" who project out a bit further towards the tray tables when they're down.)

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

I know exaggeration is normal online, but every time this comes up, I think "what airlines are they flying"? About 4 years ago, I was flying Delta home from an event and had gotten upgraded to the "comfort+" seating. Before we got off the plane (after we were on the ground), I reclined the seat all the way so I could get a picture of how much this recline really is.

After I typed that, I realized that I did exaggerate. I don't remember if this was on American Airlines, or United (I'm thinking United since I now have an aversion to that airlines), but I was at the back of the plane, not last seat. The guy in front was tall, I think, and reclined all the way. I could have scratched the top of his head, and because he was reclined I couldn't put down my tray table. I remember being extremely annoyed at the situation and the airlines, and thinking that this is what the DIS community was referring to in their complaints. Ever since then I don't recline my seat. I didn't ask the guy not to recline his seat since I wasn't going to eat anything on the 3-hour flight. I'm still annoyed. lol

To me, the issue isn't so much the recline, but that they've decreased the space between seats so that a normal recline now affects the person behind them - and probably just in the economy seats, which is what I would sit in on business travel. When I sit in Delta Comfort the person in front can recline all the way and it won't affect me.

 

[BnLToyBarn]

Luckily I've never been reclined on lol. I just got back from a work trip to China and flew Delta One there and back. That was nice! You literally recline to a bed without bothering anyone!

 

[sam_gordon]

Do you remember what aircraft type that picture was taken on?

I believe it was a CRJ. However, this is typical of when I fly... the recline is only ~3 inches, which would match what Delta is changing.

According to the link in the first post, economy seats currently recline 4", and FC seats recline 5.5".

And the picture I posted seems to match that.

I wonder if the people who think that it's "only" a couple of inches

I don't "think" it's only a couple of inches, it IS a couple of inches. Look at the picture. Do you honestly believe that's more than 4"?

I'd like to see a picture of a seat reclined enough that it would hit the knees of the person behind them. It simply doesn't make sense. If the seat back isn't reclined, it looks like this: |. If the seat back is reclined, it looks like this: \. The top part is what goes back. If the top is only going back 4", it stands to reason by the time you get to the "hinge", it's 0", with everything in between between those numbers. Where knees should be positioned (toward the bottom), it should only be an inch at most.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

I believe it was a CRJ. However, this is typical of when I fly... the recline is only ~3 inches, which would match what Delta is changing.

And the picture I posted seems to match that.

I don't "think" it's only a couple of inches, it IS a couple of inches. Look at the picture. Do you honestly believe that's more than 4"?

I'd like to see a picture of a seat reclined enough that it would hit the knees of the person behind them. It simply doesn't make sense. If the seat back isn't reclined, it looks like this: |. If the seat back is reclined, it looks like this: \. The top part is what goes back. If the top is only going back 4", it stands to reason by the time you get to the "hinge", it's 0", with everything in between between those numbers. Where knees should be positioned (toward the bottom), it should only be an inch at most.

Hmm, how do I explain what I mean. It very well may be 2 inches but to a taller person, a person with long legs, or even a person of size, two inches can make a difference so it isn't "only" two inches to them. Then trying to get up to go to the bathroom with long legs without tugging on the seat and maneuvering around the reclined seat can be problematic as well.

 

[sam_gordon]

Hmm, how do I explain what I mean. It very well may be 2 inches but to a taller person, a person with long legs, or even a person of size, two inches can make a difference so it isn't "only" two inches to them. Then trying to get up to go to the bathroom with long legs without tugging on the seat and maneuvering around the reclined seat can be problematic as well.

And, as mentioned, two inches can make a difference to the person doing the reclining. If the top of the seat is moved 4" back and the bottom of the seat is at 0", that means the middle part of the seat is at 2". That should be about stomach level. I understand regarding your COS, but how does that hit someone's knees? Even someone tall?

I think this goes back to a thread a couple weeks ago... if a COS knows they wouldn't fit in the seat, shouldn't they be responsible for purchasing a larger seat (premium economy, business class, FC)? So shouldn't someone with long legs be responsible for purchasing what they need?

 

[cluvsdisney]

I’m for the more restricted seat recline. Things have been knocked over or knocked off my tray from people pushing back too hard.

 

[mom2rtk]

Whatever became of those devices to block the seat in front of you from reclining? I have to think we would have seen about more fights if those things were still around.

I'm all for no reclining. Surely that's just a holdover from the day when seats were farther apart. It's just not good in today's cramped quarters.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So shouldn't someone with long legs be responsible for purchasing what they need?

Leisure vs business travel could be different.

My husband is tall but we manage fairly ok with SWA. It's the primary airline we fly. In terms of comfort it's not like the most comfortable thing ever but we make it work.

If he is flying for business with Delta for example he is only authorized to purchase Delta Comfort+ as opposed to Main Cabin if it's more than a 5 or 6 hour flight. I can't remember which length. If the price difference wasn't too too much maybe he could ask but they could still decline him as it's not covered policy. Because of where we live that puts most flights out of the question as flight times aren't that long. He did get an upgrade due to that length in flight when he went to Japan, stopping over in Hawaii, but truth be told they had to temporarily bump up his spending limit anyways on his corporate credit card (which has a very good limit for average, everyday corporate travel) simply because it's a lot more expensive to fly to Japan than domestically.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I don't understand the need to have the seats recline at all.

Because sitting upright for long periods can be very uncomfortable for some people. It can aggravate some people's back and neck problems, as well.

Exactly. When I'm sitting in my seat on a plane, I have to mentally focus to remain "comfortable" until such time as I can recline the seat. The straight back seats (actually feels like I'm leaning forward) are hard on my back.

It's bad enough I have no leg space to feel comfortable, but making me "sit straight" just makes things worse.

 

[sam_gordon]

Leisure vs business travel could be different.

Not really.

My husband is tall but we manage fairly ok with SWA. It's the primary airline we fly. In terms of comfort it's not like the most comfortable thing ever but we make it work.

If he is flying for business with Delta for example he is only authorized to purchase Delta Comfort+ as opposed to Main Cabin if it's more than a 5 or 6 hour flight. I can't remember which length. If the price difference wasn't too too much maybe he could ask but they could still decline him as it's not covered policy. Because of where we live that puts most flights out of the question as flight times aren't that long. He did get an upgrade due to that length in flight when he went to Japan, stopping over in Hawaii, but truth be told they had to temporarily bump up his spending limit anyways on his corporate credit card (which has a very good limit for average, everyday corporate travel) simply because it's a lot more expensive to fly to Japan than domestically.

I know Delta allows you to add Comfort+ separately after the ticket is booked. So if he really felt he needed Comfort+, he books his ticket based on business requirements, then calls on his own later, adds comfort+ and puts the charge on his credit card. I think all you need is the confirmation number to do this.

 

[piccolopat]

DH is tall and has had his knees bashed by people reclining in front of him even when we buy the extended legroom seats. He is happy about this and hope it is rolled out for all flights and all airlines. I can see the airlines eventually eliminating the recline option altogether and adding seats that have a fixed recline of 1-2".

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not really.

Adhering to corporate policy, whatever that may be, if flying for business is different than flying for leisure. That was my point.

I know Delta allows you to add Comfort+ separately after the ticket is booked. So if he really felt he needed Comfort+, he books his ticket based on business requirements, then calls on his own later, adds comfort+ and puts the charge on his credit card. I think all you need is the confirmation number to do this.

I don't believe they would allow you to pay for things on your own dime like that. You have to book through a travel software and the travel company is alerted to any changes made to the ticket. Changes are frequent enough so that's not an issue but they would see that his company's policy is X and you're outside of that.

I don't think my husband is interested in skirting the rules of his company though I can't speak for everyone. I'm just telling you what they are because your comment was to the effect of personal responsibility which I don't necessarily disagree with. Hard to look at a person though and judge what their company's rules may be. I'm simply giving one example where policies/procedures exist that may not facilitate purchasing a ticket with more leg room. My husband deals though, like I said.

 

[kimblebee]

So completely correct about the exaggeration part. Somebody in front of me reclines and I barely even notice it unless I've got a drink on my tray and it jostles a bit. It wouldn't occur to me to be cranky because they're "in my space" - that issue is minuscule compared to the discomfort of having to sit bolt-upright for several hours. (Admittedly this may be a bigger issue for "passengers of size" who project out a bit further towards the tray tables when they're down.)

The “in my space” people probably also complain when a car parks in front of their house in “their” spot.

 

[kdonnel]

Adhering to corporate policy, whatever that may be, if flying for business is different than flying for leisure. That was my point.

I don't believe they would allow you to pay for things on your own dime like that. You have to book through a travel software and the travel company is alerted to any changes made to the ticket. Changes are frequent enough so that's not an issue but they would see that his company's policy is X and you're outside of that.

I don't think my husband is interested in skirting the rules of his company though I can't speak for everyone. I'm just telling you what they are because your comment was to the effect of personal responsibility which I don't necessarily disagree with. Hard to look at a person though and judge what their company's rules may be. I'm simply giving one example where policies/procedures exist that may not facilitate purchasing a ticket with more leg room. My husband deals though, like I said.

I have to book through a corporate portal as well. I have used my own money or miles to upgrade directly with delta after booking via Concur.

Our company travel policy does state you are responsible for any upgrades you might want.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have to book through a corporate portal as well. I have used my own money or miles to upgrade directly with delta after booking via Concur.

Our company travel policy does state you are responsible for any upgrades you might want.

That may be with your company but I know my husband has talked about it before and it's not ok with their company to use your own money for upgrading. Not all companies act the same way. I don't have a clue what each and every company's policies are. I did share what my husband's policy is.

 

[mnrose]

I can't see the picture above.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

And, as mentioned, two inches can make a difference to the person doing the reclining. If the top of the seat is moved 4" back and the bottom of the seat is at 0", that means the middle part of the seat is at 2". That should be about stomach level. I understand regarding your COS, but how does that hit someone's knees? Even someone tall?

I think this goes back to a thread a couple weeks ago... if a COS knows they wouldn't fit in the seat, shouldn't they be responsible for purchasing a larger seat (premium economy, business class, FC)? So shouldn't someone with long legs be responsible for purchasing what they need?

If they fit in the seat, no need to buy a larger seat. It could be turned around(not saying that I am for it) and said that if you have a bad back then you should upgrade. If you are the one in front of me and I need to get up, believe me, I will pull myself up with the back of your seat. I've ended my tit for tat on this.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And the picture I posted seems to match that.

I don't see a picture on my phone, just a circle with a thick dash inside.

If the seat back isn't reclined, it looks like this: |. If the seat back is reclined, it looks like this: \.

I think if you look at it from the side, the "upright" seatback is somewhere between these angles. It's not quite perpendicular to the floor.

 

[ronandannette]

If they fit in the seat, no need to buy a larger seat. It could be turned around(not saying that I am for it) and said that if you have a bad back then you should upgrade. If you are the one in front of me and I need to get up, believe me, I will pull myself up with the back of your seat. I've ended my tit for tat on this.

This happens to me all the time and I never knew I was supposed to get mad about it. It's just yet another reality of sharing too little space with too many people; like occasionally taking an elbow to the head when riding transit during rush hour. I trust you'll be as courteous about getting up as possible, as I am when reclining, but beyond that it's all fair ball.