Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[skier_pete]

I rarely stop at first pages - but nice job with the first page update @rteetz.

 

[DanBoris]

Maybe that number is both directions. Or includes two independent tracks, which is what's expected - with 2500 each.

5000 in one direction at 8 people per car is 10.5 cars per minute - or one every 6 seconds. That doesn't feel like a realistic number to me. 10-12 seconds per load is more likely.

I asked for that clarification also, and that is 5000 in each direction on each leg.

 

[skier_pete]

I asked for that clarification also, and that is 5000 in each direction on each leg.

That would be astounding quantity. The link below is a comprehensive lift of all the 8 person gondolas worldwide. Average capacity is about 2500, maximum is 3600 per hour. I think the high end won't be possible because they will be dealing with kids and elderly, who won't load as quickly as typically fit skiers.

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/

I can't conceive how they would crank it up to 5000 per hour. I couldn't find evidence of an 8 person gondola in the world that can reach that capacity. (If I am wrong feel free to correct me.) I think whoever provided you with this information is incorrect.

 

[CosmicGirl]

That would be astounding quantity. The link below is a comprehensive lift of all the 8 person gondolas worldwide. Average capacity is about 2500, maximum is 3600 per hour. I think the high end won't be possible because they will be dealing with kids and elderly, who won't load as quickly as typically fit skiers.

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/

I can't conceive how they would crank it up to 5000 per hour. I couldn't find evidence of an 8 person gondola in the world that can reach that capacity. (If I am wrong feel free to correct me.) I think whoever provided you with this information is incorrect.

The current record is 4500 per hour with 10-person gondolas but that one is not running as fast as the technology allows: only 6.5m/s instead of 7m/s. If you correct the capacity for 8-person gondalas you end up with 3600 per hour, crank up the speed to 7m/s and you're already close to 3900. If they opted for 10-person cabins at 7m/s the capacity would already reach 4846 people per hour, so it's not impossible.

Edited to add: This is assuming that the interval between two "launches" would be constant, which is not necessarily the case. They could decrease the interval to increase capacity even more. And note that this capacity is not related to how long it would take people to board because the time you would get to board depends on the design of the station, not the launch interval. Just looking at the concept art for the CBR station you can see at least 10 cabins only on one side of the station. If a cabin departs the station every 8 seconds (based on 8-passenger cabins and a one-way capacity of 3600) and there are 10 cabins in the station then each cabin gets 80 seconds for people to disembark and board. The concept art shows 10 cabins on one side, but there are more on the other side so the loading time increases even more.

 

[DanBoris]

That would be astounding quantity. The link below is a comprehensive lift of all the 8 person gondolas worldwide. Average capacity is about 2500, maximum is 3600 per hour. I think the high end won't be possible because they will be dealing with kids and elderly, who won't load as quickly as typically fit skiers.

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/

I can't conceive how they would crank it up to 5000 per hour. I couldn't find evidence of an 8 person gondola in the world that can reach that capacity. (If I am wrong feel free to correct me.) I think whoever provided you with this information is incorrect.

He did use the words "shooting for" so it does sound like they may not actually achieve that.

 

[WEDWDW]

How much of Backstage will be seen from Disney Skyliner?

It doesn't look like DHS will be much of a "problem",but what about Epcot?


First Pylon With Rollers Is Now Up-Photo From WDWNEWSTODAY

 

[rteetz]

How much of Backstage will be seen from Disney Skyliner?

It doesn't look like DHS will be much of a "problem",but what about Epcot?


First Pylon With Rollers Is Now Up-Photo From WDWNEWSTODAY

Yes you will see some backstage from the Epcot portion of the line.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

How much of Backstage will be seen from Disney Skyliner?

It doesn't look like DHS will be much of a "problem",but what about Epcot?


First Pylon With Rollers Is Now Up-Photo From WDWNEWSTODAY

Definitely some at EPCOT - though I think one benefit of adding that whole back plaza for the queue to the Rat ride in france is it will "dress up" at least that portion of back stage you would have seen from the skyliner

 

[Q-man]

That would be astounding quantity. The link below is a comprehensive lift of all the 8 person gondolas worldwide. Average capacity is about 2500, maximum is 3600 per hour. I think the high end won't be possible because they will be dealing with kids and elderly, who won't load as quickly as typically fit skiers.

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/

I can't conceive how they would crank it up to 5000 per hour. I couldn't find evidence of an 8 person gondola in the world that can reach that capacity. (If I am wrong feel free to correct me.) I think whoever provided you with this information is incorrect.

Ahhhmm, do ski lifts have downward passengers when looking at those numbers?

 

[dina444444]

Ahhhmm, do ski lifts have downward passengers when looking at those numbers?

They do on the gonodolas, not usually on an actual ski lift (not enough time to load/unload).

 

[Q-man]

Going to need to adapt The MaxRebo line-

Schrodinger's Skyliner corollary which states until it is built the skyliner is both more efficient and less efficient than any other gondola system.

 

[skier_pete]

Ahhhmm, do ski lifts have downward passengers when looking at those numbers?

Most will download and upload. These numbers are one directional.

Going to need to adapt The MaxRebo line-

Schrodinger's Skyliner corollary which states until it is built the skyliner is both more efficient and less efficient than any other gondola system.

That's funny, but reality is we should expect it to be of average capacity, until proven otherwise. Average being somewhere between 2000 and 3000 per hour.

 

[Hoodie]

Is this really going to be true?

"It is expected that bus transportation to the parks and resorts involved in this new transportation system will decrease or go away altogether"

I'm fascinated by this project but also do not like heights. I don't see myself using this as a main form of transportation. Between this and the dog issue, I think Disney really doesn't want me staying onsite anymore!

Good thing the Good Neighbor hotels have the 60-day FP+ booking now!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Is this really going to be true?

"It is expected that bus transportation to the parks and resorts involved in this new transportation system will decrease or go away altogether"

I'm fascinated by this project but also do not like heights. I don't see myself using this as a main form of transportation. Between this and the dog issue, I think Disney really doesn't want me staying onsite anymore!

Good thing the Good Neighbor hotels have the 60-day FP+ booking now!

I don't think anyone knows for sure but it was a reported rumor. And I think it is logical to think that Disney would want expense savings elsewhere to offset this additional form of transportation. Given that, I can see at least an adjustment to the bus support from these resorts to EPCOT and DHS. Maybe not going away entirely but at least reduced.

I know it is a little apples to oranges (or at least Macintosh to Granny Smith) but the monorail resorts only have the monorails to get to some parks and there is definitely a "height" aspect to those as well - and we shall see but I don't think the skyliner is going to be all that far off the ground

 

[hertamaniac]

There is the ability to "merge" one in like traffic merges on the highway. One of the "standstill" gondolas on a separate track would pop right back into the lineup to go back onto the cable.

Interesting if they employ this method. I am not sure if there has to be a minimum safe distance to get your gondola back onto the skyway and how that would be safeguarded.

 

[skier_pete]

Is this really going to be true?

"It is expected that bus transportation to the parks and resorts involved in this new transportation system will decrease or go away altogether"

I'm fascinated by this project but also do not like heights. I don't see myself using this as a main form of transportation. Between this and the dog issue, I think Disney really doesn't want me staying onsite anymore!

Good thing the Good Neighbor hotels have the 60-day FP+ booking now!

No one knows for sure:

Monorail resorts don't have buses to get to MK or Epcot. You have to take the monorail.
BC/YC/BW don't have buses to get to DHS or Epcot. You have to take the boat. (Or walk.)
They are unlikely to spend probably $100 million+ dollars on a new transportation system and leave the buses as is.

So it's clear that they will either drastically reduce the bus service, or eliminate it all together. Assuming they can find a way to get ECVs on the gondolas, I think eliminating the buses is the most likely scenario, but it's possible they won't. (Wilderness Lodge still runs a bus to MK even though there is a boat option.)

I personally have a fear of heights as well (not strong though) - but gondolas don't bother me much, and about the same amount that riding the monorail does - I never got how the monorail doesn't bother people but the gondola concept does. They are going to be the same height, and honestly the gondolas will probably be safer than the monorail is at the moment.

 

[ChrisNY2]

...

I personally have a fear of heights as well (not strong though) - but gondolas don't bother me much, and about the same amount that riding the monorail does - I never got how the monorail doesn't bother people but the gondola concept does. They are going to be the same height, and honestly the gondolas will probably be safer than the monorail is at the moment.

Me too. I'm generally afraid of heights but made it through the very high Ngong Ping gondola in Hong Kong with no problems! (BTW, that one's not on the list you posted earlier - I think there are non-ski-resort gondola transportations that are not on the skilift site you linked to.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngong_Ping_360

 

[skier_pete]

Me too. I'm generally afraid of heights but made it through the very high Ngong Ping gondola in Hong Kong with no problems! (BTW, that one's not on the list you posted earlier - I think there are non-ski-resort gondola transportations that are not on the skilift site you linked to.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngong_Ping_360

Yes, the link I provided was only ski related gondolas. However, I did find a list of non-ski Gondolas, but none had capacity listings. The observation that a higher capacity rate is unlikely though is still valid. On/Off-load stations would have to be built significantly larger and the cable would have to run at singificantly higher speeds to achieve a 5000 per hour capacity each way - I just don't think it can easily be done, and I don't think Disney has the need for it. As pointed out before, if each resort gets a bus every 12 minutes (5 buses an hour) that would be 20 buses per hour - and at 60 people per bus (a pretty full bus) that's 1200 people per hour going to/from the parks. A standard gondola capacity of 2400 per hour will double the bus capacity. 3600 per hour will triple it. 5000 per hour would be more than quadruple current bus capacity, and there is no reason to think that is necessary.

(Let's make another point - TOTAL Epcot attendance averages about 32,000 people per day, DHS averages just south of 30,000 right now. At 2,400 per hour the gondola can handle 7.5% of epcot and 8% of DHS TOTAL DAILY ATTENDANCE each hour. If we consider people travel to the parks between 8 AM and 11 AM each day, the gondola can absorb nearly 25% of again the TOTAL daily attendance - not just the daily attendance from these 4 resorts.

Yet another way to look at it - AoA, PopCen, CBR and the new Riveria DVC will have just under 6,000 rooms combined. If we assume there are four people in each room on average (probably high) that's 24,000 people. At 2,400 people per hour, that's 10% of the resort population can go to each resort in an hour. If we again assume people are travelling to the parks between 8 AM and 11 AM - that means 30% of those 4 resorts can travel by gondola to the parks each morning, or 60% of the people total. There is no way 60% of the people from those resorts are travelling just to Epcot and DHS on a typical morning. Based on typical bus transportation - it's more like 15% over those 3 hours (1,200 people per hour as stated above says 3,600 people per 3 hour "morning rush").

I return to the biggest potential issue is the evening park close. I have personally observed 3-4 bus loads of people waiting at a Pop Century bus stop at the end of the day. If we assume you could get let's say 3 bus loads out of Pop, AoA, CBR, and another 2 to Riviera (a smaller resort) that's 11 bus loads, or 660 people leaving the park all at once to use the gondola. At capacity - this many people would take 16.5 minutes to load to the gondolas at 2,400 per hour - and it will be rare they truly load 8 per car, so maybe even more like 20-25 minutes. So really, this is your biggest bottleneck - though even then not all 660 will show up the same instance - but you could see 10-15 minute wait times when leaving the parks. Otherwise, I think gondola wait times will rarely be more than 5 minutes, and I think that about 98% of the time it will be 1-2 minutes.

 

[STLstone]

.....

I return to the biggest potential issue is the evening park close. I have personally observed 3-4 bus loads of people waiting at a Pop Century bus stop at the end of the day. If we assume you could get let's say 3 bus loads out of Pop, AoA, CBR, and another 2 to Riviera (a smaller resort) that's 11 bus loads, or 660 people leaving the park all at once to use the gondola. At capacity - this many people would take 16.5 minutes to load to the gondolas at 2,400 per hour - and it will be rare they truly load 8 per car, so maybe even more like 20-25 minutes. So really, this is your biggest bottleneck - though even then not all 660 will show up the same instance - but you could see 10-15 minute wait times when leaving the parks. Otherwise, I think gondola wait times will rarely be more than 5 minutes, and I think that about 98% of the time it will be 1-2 minutes.

I think people are going to be surprised how these actually work. Even if there is a line when you get there, it will always be moving. You'll never (without a breakdown) be standing around wondering when the next bus will get there - you'll always be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[jade1]

As pointed out before, if each resort gets a bus every 12 minutes (5 buses an hour) that would be 20 buses per hour - and at 60 people per bus (a pretty full bus) that's 1200 people per hour going to/from the parks. A standard gondola capacity of 2400 per hour will double the bus capacity. 3600 per hour will triple it. 5000 per hour would be more than quadruple current bus capacity, and there is no reason to think that is necessary.

Got lost here. Do you mean 5 buses an hour to "each" park (all 4 parks) to get to 20 per hour? Currently it would only be to 2 parks correct? Maybe I missed more, sorry if so. Or do you mean the 4 hotels?