Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[danikoski]

OK, so the new system is barely out of the ground but I've been pondering its expansion.

1. How about a line that goes from CSR to DHS? Could the DHS terminus be built so that the line continues on to CSR? Or perhaps a second line added in that station?
2. In a totally separate operation, how about a line between AKL and AK? Imagine the views if it could be routed over the savannas along the way.
3. Maybe a route that goes POR/POFQ/OKW/DS? Relieves bus congestion and gets people to shopping dining.
4. How about FW/WL/MK? Not that the current boat system is an issue...

Because of the boat in place at OKW, PO, DS, I don't see a gondola there, but I could see one going to Epcot.

An AKL to AK over the Savannah would be great! They may be able to do CSR with a stop at Blizzard Beach.

If the gondolas work for this stage, there is a definite possibility they could try to connect the whole property. CBR could go to Typhoon Lagoon, DS, SSR, OKW, PO... Or something like that.

We will see what happens.

Edit: In looking at what I said I guess there could be a line from PO, OKW, DS...I just wasn't really thinking about it until I saw on a map how close TL is to CBR and then DS.

 

[Q-man]

OK, so the new system is barely out of the ground but I've been pondering its expansion.

1. How about a line that goes from CSR to DHS? Could the DHS terminus be built so that the line continues on to CSR? Or perhaps a second line added in that station?
2. In a totally separate operation, how about a line between AKL and AK? Imagine the views if it could be routed over the savannas along the way.
3. Maybe a route that goes POR/POFQ/OKW/DS? Relieves bus congestion and gets people to shopping dining.
4. How about FW/WL/MK? Not that the current boat system is an issue...

The presently underway skyliner serves 35% of on property rooms. Logically, ASRs at ~5K rooms would be next with another 19% of rooms. Add together it makes eliminating bus service to two parks for 54% of rooms possible. ASRs to AK would be an easy run as well.

After that the two Port Orleans properties to EP and DHS would be 3K rooms(12%). Or do you add a line to the presently under way one on that runs to AK as that takes 35% of rooms to a park?

The golf course between SSR and OKW makes a skyway from PO to DS a very long line to go around the golf course so that likely remains boat service.

AK's savanna would be a long detour between AK and AKL. Also, I think buses can make 3 loops an hour for that run.

 

[Doberge]

Nice theory, but it won't work based on what we know is the major hub, change station, which is CBR. Disney has pretty much confirmed that in their press release about the stations in December. It is most likely people will have to change at CBR to go from Epcot to DHS. This is especially likely since there are already two non transfer modes to get between Epcot and DHS, walking and boat.

Unlikely, maybe, but still possible even given what we know. The December press release describes the CBR hub as one where guests "will be able to transfer gondola routes to reach their destination." This could still be deceptively worded and narrowly apply to only Pop/AoA guests who will make up around 60% of the rooms serviced by the gondola (Pop 2880, AoA 1984, CBR 2112 but unsure if this is before or after rooms taken away, Riviera ~1000). Value resort guests leaving or returning will need to change, and there will be a TON of these people.

The same words could more broadly mean all guests will change route, meaning as popularly believed that the Epcot-->DHS or DHS-->Epcot will have multiple legs and require changing cabs at CBR but I still think that is overly complicated and unnecessary.

Even what we know about CBR station's size only supports that it's the busiest station. It's the only one supporting up to 6 cables from 3 routes in and 3 out. Because of the number of rooms serviced by CBR station (over 85%) it will also be more busy than either park station, as the park stations will more or less split the capacity 50/50 to 60/40.

 

[rteetz]

OK, so the new system is barely out of the ground but I've been pondering its expansion.

1. How about a line that goes from CSR to DHS? Could the DHS terminus be built so that the line continues on to CSR? Or perhaps a second line added in that station?
2. In a totally separate operation, how about a line between AKL and AK? Imagine the views if it could be routed over the savannas along the way.
3. Maybe a route that goes POR/POFQ/OKW/DS? Relieves bus congestion and gets people to shopping dining.
4. How about FW/WL/MK? Not that the current boat system is an issue...

2. Other modes of transportation have been looked at for AKL.

I think Disney is waiting to see how well this works before expanding it.

 

[OKW Lover]

The golf course between SSR and OKW makes a skyway from PO to DS a very long line to go around the golf course so that likely remains boat service.

Had to go take a look at a map (satellite) for this one. It looks to me like it would be very easy to route a skyway along side OKW without having to cross over an active fairway. It would run from POFQ to OKW's Hospitality House and then along the canal and Peninsular Road towards a terminal in the vicinity of the Cirque building. Looking at the image, it could cross the course between holes 1 and 2.

 

[Q-man]

^^^
To me a skyliner overhead would ruin the OKW theming. But I guess with your placement it would be the clubhouse and a few water view buildings effected as most of the views are oriented to the course.

 

[umichigan10]

2. Other modes of transportation have been looked at for AKL.

I think Disney is waiting to see how well this works before expanding it.

Didn’t they want to do a train between the lodge and the main park originally? I remember hearing that story on the web at some point

 

[rteetz]

Didn’t they want to do a train between the lodge and the main park originally? I remember hearing that story on the web at some point

I believe a train was discussed at one point.

 

[skier_pete]

Even what we know about CBR station's size only supports that it's the busiest station. It's the only one supporting up to 6 cables from 3 routes in and 3 out. Because of the number of rooms serviced by CBR station (over 85%) it will also be more busy than either park station, as the park stations will more or less split the capacity 50/50 to 60/40.

The whole workings of this is fascinating to me. Consider the current Epcot to DHS main transportation mode - the Friendship Boats. They run about every 15 minutes, and they service not only the two parks but the FIVE hotels in between. If your Disney, do you concern yourself with driving people away from the boats? A boat ride from DHS to Epcot can take between 30 and 45 minutes, depending on the timing of the boat. The gondola will probably be shorter than that - if there is no change at the central station, it could be as short as 15 minutes. Even having to get off and on it still could be 20-25 minutes, certainly less than the boats. Does Disney prefer that people traveling between the parks use the gondola? Probably don't really care, since at a guess I would say less than 25 % of the people on a boat are going the full park-to-park. However, if the gondola transportation is TOO fast, do they start having people from Boardwalk and Beach/Yacht Club walking to the Epcot IG station instead of walking to the boat dock? So maybe they don't want that travel to be 100% direct without a change at CBR...to discourage too many people from skipping the boats. Because they can't really cut back on the number of boats that are running. (Essentially there are 4 boats looping right now - and as I said, giving you a 30-45 minute loop time. Drop to 3 boats each boat would have to arrive every 20 minutes, so now you are looking at 40-60 minutes from DHS to Epcot, and longer trips to the resorts.)

The photo is on the Aerial's thread, but I thought it better to mention here - the photos show a new bus loop at DHS being constructed further back from the existing one. This to me all but confirms that they will be moving security out further from both parks and making it so the gondola (and the boats) are within the "security bubble". Likely at all these resorts (5 Epcot, CBR, AoA, Pop, Riviera = 9 resorts) you will have security at the transportation hub. IG will likely move it's security outside the Boat Dock and Gondola station meaning they will only need a very small security station there for people walking from the local resorts. (A relatively small number of people.) Security will be needed at the 3 gondola stations (CBR, AoA/Pop and Riviera) and then at the 3 boat docks (BC/YC, Swan/Dolph, BW), but likely each of those stations can be manned by one or two employees, similar to how universal mans the security at their resorts on the boat loop. It also would probably reduce slightly the security needs at DHS, though perhaps by only 10-20% (so maybe one less station there). Overall, it would likely require additional personnel, but I would think it would raise security. It's also possible they could install metal detectors and x-ray machines at all these locations like Universal - but likely would still need 2 people per station even if they did.

A bit Off topic - but I am surprised Disney has not gone to bag scanners and metal detectors 100% yet. (There are some at MK and I know the non-bag entrance at Epcot has metal detectors.)

 

[rastuso]

I think Disney will do anything it can to keep people going DHS-->Epcot and Epcot-->DHS from neeeing to make a cab change. Changing cabs is a headache and a completely unneccessary step where any number of things can go wrong (person is slow or slips, struggles with an ECV or stroller, etc).

My thought is that Disney will make multiple queues depending on your "final destination." Think of it like leaving MK and choosing your line. One line to resort monorails, one line to TTC monorail, one line for each boat line etc.

Hypothetically, let's start at Epcot. Load cabs to Riviera, CBR/Pop/AoA, and DHS. Rivera gets its own queue for being a "deluxe" differentiator. CBR/Pop/AoA ends at CBR, and you transfer to Pop/AoA. More headache, but "value." You'd also be able to ride through to DHS without your cab unloading even once.

Lets say you're going to DHS. The system knows your cab is going to DHS so that it passes through Riviera and CBR without opening the door to load/unload. This allows cast members to focus only on loading/unloading cars "ending" at that destination. This eliminates the headache of tending to *every* cab and having people getting on/off all cars at every station. Further, cast members can direct the appropriate number of people to a preload spot knowing they are loading an empty cab. The alternative is every cab has people getting on/off and cast members not knowing how many spots are open until people exit, and that just sounds like chaos (two people here, four there, etc).

Within a station they could probably design it to have the unloading car at its final destination go one way and the continuing cars go another. (Supporting the idea that cars exit the cable in station and travel by rail in station).

Its 2018. Im not expecting a guy in a room pushing buttons but a computer that is well programmed to not only recognize line capacity issues in real time but have the ability to predict problems (e.g. "OMG we just loaded a cab full of ECVs, thatll need more time to unload"). The system knows queue length and how many cars for each it needs, and adjusts itself. It can adjust for bottlenecks and send load fewer cars to a final destination if that station begins backing up, then resume regular service when cast clears the kink. This might mean occassionally passing an empty cab through but the potential efficiency gains in other parts of the system can justify this.

So what are the hypothetical queue choices based on where you hypothetically start?

Start: Epcot
Choose one of three queues: Riviera, CBR/Pop/AoA, or DHS.

Start: Riviera
Choose one of two queues: DHS or Epcot.
No choice to CBR. You can walk to CBR and then choose to take Pop/AoA line if thats final destination. Why? Riviera and CBR are too close to warrant a dedicated destination que.

Start: CBR
Choose one of three queues: Epcot, DHS, or Pop/AoA.
This is most widely accepted from the plans amd our theories, minus my thought that there will not be a choice to take a gondola to Riviera as final destination (walk it).

Start: Pop/AoA
Choose: CBR is only choice before needing to transfer.

Start: DHS
Choose one of 3 queues: CBR/Pop/AoA, Epcot, or DHS.
Same idea as Epcot, but reversed.

Again, that's just a theory.

It almost HAS to be that complex to be worth it. If you are at CBR, why on Earth would you choose to get on the resort bus that would take you straight to Epcot or DHS, and instead choose to get off of it to get into another line to DHS or Epcot. Also, if you are at AoA or Pop, why on Earth would you choose to wait for TWO gondolas instead of one bus? If you are stroller or ECV-less, it wouldn't be too bad, but it's still two lines.

And I can't see Disney forcing guests on the gondolas, because many won't ride them. And everything will go to hell during a thunderstorm, which is like every day in Florida. If they have to have busses for rainy days, they aren't saving any money in the long run, unless thunderstorm days become complete SNAFUs with huge bus lines because half of them have been retired.

I don't know where the most advanced Gondola system in the world is, but having a rail system taking them from one line to another, automated, and adding in newly loaded gondolas from another station should be doable to an extent.

I can see a lot of one shot lines, like ASR to AK, making a lot of sense logistically. Again, if these things can run in 80+% of the rain/storms.

But it will only take to the first storm in July that stops the gondolas, and people sitting in them with terrified children, for 30 minutes, for the gondolas to become a massive waste of money.

And we aren't even talking about the A/C systems reliability yet.

-J

 

[DanBoris]

It almost HAS to be that complex to be worth it. If you are at CBR, why on Earth would you choose to get on the resort bus that would take you straight to Epcot or DHS, and instead choose to get off of it to get into another line to DHS or Epcot. Also, if you are at AoA or Pop, why on Earth would you choose to wait for TWO gondolas instead of one bus? If you are stroller or ECV-less, it wouldn't be too bad, but it's still two lines.

And I can't see Disney forcing guests on the gondolas, because many won't ride them. And everything will go to hell during a thunderstorm, which is like every day in Florida. If they have to have busses for rainy days, they aren't saving any money in the long run, unless thunderstorm days become complete SNAFUs with huge bus lines because half of them have been retired.

I don't know where the most advanced Gondola system in the world is, but having a rail system taking them from one line to another, automated, and adding in newly loaded gondolas from another station should be doable to an extent.

I can see a lot of one shot lines, like ASR to AK, making a lot of sense logistically. Again, if these things can run in 80+% of the rain/storms.

But it will only take to the first storm in July that stops the gondolas, and people sitting in them with terrified children, for 30 minutes, for the gondolas to become a massive waste of money.

And we aren't even talking about the A/C systems reliability yet.

-J

The reason you would take it from AOA/Pop is that you could actually get from AOA to Epcot or DHS before the bus even shows up at the resort. They are shooting for a capacity of around 5000 people per hour on each leg in each direction, that's around the equivalent of 60 buses per hour. The gondola makes even more sense when you consider that even if the bus routes aren't eliminated completely they will be seriously cut back, because that's part of what will pay for this system. The gondola should actually be more appealing to people with ECV's and strollers since it will be much easier to board with them then it would be on a bus.

Disney may not force, but they are going to strongly push people to the gondolas since they will be less expensive to operate then the busses. If people don't want to ride them there are plenty of other options. Gondolas can operate in 30-40 mph winds so it will probably take a pretty good storm to shut them down.

 

[rastuso]

That depends on the rules for ECVs and strollers. I would be surprised if either will be allowed on, rolling around freely in a swinging gondola. The gondolas are going to be pretty small, if only seating 8.

And I'd love to hear where that 5000 people per hour number is from, but it's ludicrous. It's probably close to doable at a ski resort where everyone wants to get on ASAP. But Disney visitors aren't nearly as motivated as skiers are. Even with perfect 8 filling of every gondola, that would be loading one in less than 6 seconds. I know there will be many off the cable at a time, I assume moving with a conveyor belt, but there is no friggin way those number are even close to met. I'd put it at closer to half that.

In the morning rush, I could see a long line at AOA, and then another one at the CBR station, although I'd hope they have automated switching from line to line. But I have not read that.

At CBR it really makes no sense, because you would get on a bus to go to the gondola station. They would have to make bus travel very nasty to drive people off them after decades. Especially with all the kids and parents who will be scared of the gondolas. Not very Disneylike to me. We'll see.

-J

 

[rteetz]

That depends on the rules for ECVs and strollers. I would be surprised if either will be allowed on, rolling around freely in a swinging gondola. The gondolas are going to be pretty small, if only seating 8.

And I'd love to hear where that 5000 people per hour number is from, but it's ludicrous. It's probably close to doable at a ski resort where everyone wants to get on ASAP. But Disney visitors aren't nearly as motivated as skiers are. Even with perfect 8 filling of every gondola, that would be loading one in less than 6 seconds. I know there will be many off the cable at a time, I assume moving with a conveyor belt, but there is no friggin way those number are even close to met. I'd put it at closer to half that.

In the morning rush, I could see a long line at AOA, and then another one at the CBR station, although I'd hope they have automated switching from line to line. But I have not read that.

At CBR it really makes no sense, because you would get on a bus to go to the gondola station. They would have to make bus travel very nasty to drive people off them after decades. Especially with all the kids and parents who will be scared of the gondolas. Not very Disneylike to me. We'll see.

-J

Both will be allowed on and I am not sure why they would be rolling around freely.

There may be lines but they will be constantly moving unlike a bus where you can only fit some many people and then wait x amount of minutes until the next one. Not sure what you mean by automated switching.

 

[rastuso]

Both will be allowed on and I am not sure why they would be rolling around freely.

There may be lines but they will be constantly moving unlike a bus where you can only fit some many people and then wait x amount of minutes until the next one. Not sure what you mean by automated switching.

Of course they will be allowed on. Have you never gone on a WDW bus? Are wheelchairs rolling around freely, or are they clamped down in the wheelchair spot? Are strollers rolling around freely, or are they folded up, and the children taken out of them for the ride? For the MOnorail, the answer to both questions is they are rolling around freely. Disney has not said what the answer would be for the gondolas. With them swinging freely in the wind, I'd be shocked if kids can stay in their strollers. Wheelchairs, maybe.

If you don't know what automated switching is, why argue it?

Does the line for Kilimanjaro move slower than Peter Pan?

-J

 

[umichigan10]

It almost HAS to be that complex to be worth it. If you are at CBR, why on Earth would you choose to get on the resort bus that would take you straight to Epcot or DHS, and instead choose to get off of it to get into another line to DHS or Epcot. Also, if you are at AoA or Pop, why on Earth would you choose to wait for TWO gondolas instead of one bus? If you are stroller or ECV-less, it wouldn't be too bad, but it's still two lines.

And I can't see Disney forcing guests on the gondolas, because many won't ride them. And everything will go to hell during a thunderstorm, which is like every day in Florida. If they have to have busses for rainy days, they aren't saving any money in the long run, unless thunderstorm days become complete SNAFUs with huge bus lines because half of them have been retired.

I don't know where the most advanced Gondola system in the world is, but having a rail system taking them from one line to another, automated, and adding in newly loaded gondolas from another station should be doable to an extent.

I can see a lot of one shot lines, like ASR to AK, making a lot of sense logistically. Again, if these things can run in 80+% of the rain/storms.

But it will only take to the first storm in July that stops the gondolas, and people sitting in them with terrified children, for 30 minutes, for the gondolas to become a massive waste of money.

And we aren't even talking about the A/C systems reliability yet.

-J

Why would people be stuck suspended in gondolas during a storm? If they had to close down due to weather they’d take them all off the line and hold them in the stations, not just leave people stuck on the wires during a storm.

 

[umichigan10]

I don’t assume to have all the answers, and the questions people have are valid, but do people really believe the Disney lawyers and strategists haven’t considered all these issues and more? That they’d sink millions into a transport system if they didn’t think it was effective, safe, and pragmatic?

 

[DanBoris]

That depends on the rules for ECVs and strollers. I would be surprised if either will be allowed on, rolling around freely in a swinging gondola. The gondolas are going to be pretty small, if only seating 8.

And I'd love to hear where that 5000 people per hour number is from, but it's ludicrous. It's probably close to doable at a ski resort where everyone wants to get on ASAP. But Disney visitors aren't nearly as motivated as skiers are. Even with perfect 8 filling of every gondola, that would be loading one in less than 6 seconds. I know there will be many off the cable at a time, I assume moving with a conveyor belt, but there is no friggin way those number are even close to met. I'd put it at closer to half that.

In the morning rush, I could see a long line at AOA, and then another one at the CBR station, although I'd hope they have automated switching from line to line. But I have not read that.

At CBR it really makes no sense, because you would get on a bus to go to the gondola station. They would have to make bus travel very nasty to drive people off them after decades. Especially with all the kids and parents who will be scared of the gondolas. Not very Disneylike to me. We'll see.

-J

There are videos of people going on similar gondola system in wheelchairs so there is no reason to believe this won't be allowed at Disney. The seats will flip up to accommodate ECVs and strollers.

The 5000 number comes from here: "https://liftblog.com/2017/12/08/disney-chooses-doppelmayr-d-line/". The author of this blog participates in another Disney message board and has provided a lot of great information.,

Disney will no scare people away from busses, they will just cut the service back so far that most people won't want to wait. If a guest is afraid of the gondola, they can take a bus to another destination and transfer, take Lyft, Minnie Van, Cab, rent a car or simply stay at another resort.

 

[Turn the Page]

I don’t assume to have all the answers, and the questions people have are valid, but do people really believe the Disney lawyers and strategists haven’t considered all these issues and more? That they’d sink millions into a transport system if they didn’t think it was effective, safe, and pragmatic?

I think the issue is the majority of people just have absolutely no experience with a gondola system. Anyone who has spent any amount of time at a ski resort gets it but if not, they don't have a reference point to compare it to.

 

[rteetz]

Of course they will be allowed on. Have you never gone on a WDW bus? Are wheelchairs rolling around freely, or are they clamped down in the wheelchair spot? Are strollers rolling around freely, or are they folded up, and the children taken out of them for the ride? For the MOnorail, the answer to both questions is they are rolling around freely. Disney has not said what the answer would be for the gondolas. With them swinging freely in the wind, I'd be shocked if kids can stay in their strollers. Wheelchairs, maybe.

If you don't know what automated switching is, why argue it?

Does the line for Kilimanjaro move slower than Peter Pan?

-J

I’ve never seen a stroller or wheelchair just roll around freely on a monorail. Yes they aren’t strapped down but they aren’t just moving all over.

I asked you what automated switching is not arguing it.

Rides do not equal transportation. This is an efficient mode of transportation that Disney has decided to use. If that wasn’t the case Disney wouldn’t use it.

 

[Turn the Page]

I’ve never seen a stroller or wheelchair just roll around freely on a monorail. Yes they aren’t strapped down but they aren’t just moving all over.

I asked you what automated switching is not arguing it.

Rides do not equal transportation. This is an efficient mode of transportation that Disney has decided to use. If that wasn’t the case Disney wouldn’t use it.

I imagine by automated switching the PP means a system where you could board a gondola at EPCOT and it would route your through CBR then switch you to the line going to DHS without having to disembark the gondola. Kind of like how train tracks switch depending on where you're going.

I imagine there would be a way to do it and it would be awesome but it may also be more of a hassle than it's worth.