Do we really need the cursing on the Falcon and Winter Soldier?

[tzolkin]

I picked "fudge" just because that's the first word that came to mind, insert whatever you'd like. To me, it's not the specific word you're using that's important, but the tone.

According to science this is not true. Substitute swear words do not have the same effect as real ones. You may feel that it's comparable, but it's really not the same.

 

[starry_solo]

I don't even notice the curse words in the show and I have closed captioning on (no idea how to get rid of it on Disney+)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

According to science this is not true. Substitute swear words do not have the same effect as real ones. You may feel that it's comparable, but it's really not the same.

There's been a few studies about cursing and pain tolerance. One of one was something like you stick your hand in ice cold water and use curse words all you want and your ability to withstand that cold was longer on average. It doesn't work the same though when you use fudge for instance and not the actual word.

 

[sam_gordon]

According to science this is not true. Substitute swear words do not have the same effect as real ones. You may feel that it's comparable, but it's really not the same.

Regarding the bolded... to who? To me, I haven't seen a difference in saying substitute swear words. To others, I feel I can get my point across without using swear words. From others, whether someone uses a swear word or substitute, I still understand them. "Since you didn't use a swear word, I'm not going to take you seriously."

 

[Mysterian]

Power Broker is a "named" villain in the Marvel comics...

So was the Mandarin, but remember how he was handled in the MCU? I'm saying we'd find out that the Power Broker on the TV show will be revealed to be a bigger, more famous character who was previously only in the comics up until this point, if not an already established figure in the MCU. The name being a misleading cover for someone else.

The hype surrounding the character would have a bigger payoff this way, as opposed to the reveal being the actual comics Power Broker, who isn't that remarkable.

And apart from the Mandarin switcheroo, another possible example could be found in the rumors that the MCU version of the Taskmaster in Black Widow isn't going to be the same character as the comics Taskmaster at all, but another "twist" character.

 

[Moliphino]

So was the Mandarin, but remember how he was handled in the MCU? I'm saying we'd find out that the Power Broker on the TV show will be revealed to be a bigger, more famous character who was previously only in the comics up until this point, if not an already established figure in the MCU. The name being a misleading cover for someone else.

The hype surrounding the character would have a bigger payoff this way, as opposed to the reveal being the actual comics Power Broker, who isn't that remarkable.

And apart from the Mandarin switcheroo, another possible example could be found in the rumors that the MCU version of the Taskmaster in Black Widow isn't going to be the same character as the comics Taskmaster at all, but another "twist" character.

We haven't seen the real Mandarin yet, he'll be in Shang Chi.

 

[tzolkin]

Regarding the bolded... to who? To me, I haven't seen a difference in saying substitute swear words. To others, I feel I can get my point across without using swear words. From others, whether someone uses a swear word or substitute, I still understand them. "Since you didn't use a swear word, I'm not going to take you seriously."

That's why I said "according to science". See this other poster's reply as well.

There's been a few studies about cursing and pain tolerance. One of one was something like you stick your hand in ice cold water and use curse words all you want and your ability to withstand that cold was longer on average. It doesn't work the same though when you use fudge for instance and not the actual word.

This is what I meant by saying that the word does not have the same power or effect according to science.

Obviously people know what you mean when you use a substitute, but it absolutely is not "the same" as saying the actual word. If it had the same effect, then why would you avoid saying the swear word to begin with? You are avoiding the swear and choosing a substitute because it's less taboo or offensive. If it expressed exactly the same meaning, it would be just as offensive as swearing directly, wouldn't it?

 

[sam_gordon]

That's why I said "according to science". See this other poster's reply as well.


This is what I meant by saying that the word does not have the same power or effect according to science.

Obviously people know what you mean when you use a substitute, but it absolutely is not "the same" as saying the actual word. If it had the same effect, then why would you avoid saying the swear word to begin with? You are avoiding the swear and choosing a substitute because it's less taboo or offensive. If it expressed exactly the same meaning, it would be just as offensive as swearing directly, wouldn't it?

I disagree. For whatever reason, society has determined certain words offensive, and others used in the same way aren't.

 

[BrianL]

I don't even notice the curse words in the show and I have closed captioning on (no idea how to get rid of it on Disney+)

It's a setting that is part of your TV or device most likely. What do you use? If it's Roku press the * button to find the options and change captioning. D+ had a werid issue early on where the captions would just turn on when you started certain things, which may be how that started to begin with.

 

[Timandalicia]

There's been a few studies about cursing and pain tolerance. One of one was something like you stick your hand in ice cold water and use curse words all you want and your ability to withstand that cold was longer on average. It doesn't work the same though when you use fudge for instance and not the actual word.

Sounds like science to me

 

[Timandalicia]

How did we get from tight wearing heroes in kids’ books to where we are today anyway? I want my clean mouthed red underwear wearing Christopher Reeve.

 

[NotUrsula]

This topic reminds me so much about the Irish film trilogy, The Commitments, The Snapper, The Van written by Roddy Doyle. They are written by a Dublin man and he set his fictitious story in a low income part of Dublin and he used language that the real people who live there use.

In Ireland he is a celebrated writer and these films are loved and honored by Irish people, as they represent how real Irish people talk and what life was like for real Irish people in the 1990's. They were made by Irish people for Irish people.

But for the American audience, these films had to have subtitles when they were released in American cinemas, and the American audience were not amused by what they call the potty mouth language.

The point I'm making is that these films were made by Irish people for Irish people, using language that Irish people could relate too. If you found the potty mouth too much then you were not the target audience.

Thats exactly the same situation as The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, they are made by comic book nerds for comic book nerds with just enough generic content to appeal to a mainstream audience too. Marvel know exactly who their target audience is, how they speak and what they expect from the characters.

I agree with you to a point (and I'm a huge Roddy Doyle fan, fwiw.) The thing with the subtitles made me laugh at the time those films were in theatres. However, the curse words were not shown in the subtitles.

I've been hard-of-hearing since childhood, so I watch television with closed captioning turned on. You may not be aware that in the US, closed-captions are often censored. Part of this happens with the use of caption-generating software, but even manually-written captions often censor; and it is done for ... marketing reasons! Well, sort of; mostly it's a money-saving tactic. The transcripts used for closed captions are also used for the English subtitles for foreign-language DVDs, and they censor them for those regions that require all swearing to be bleeped out. So, sometimes you can actually read a swear-word in subtitled American films/TV, but most of the time what you see is something like : f---, or [expletive]. There is a large part of the American viewing public that doesn't care at all about profanity, but there is an equally large part of it that finds public profanity distasteful, and so most producers tend to hew to the more conservative side in order to please as many people as possible. (Americans who have extreme religious aversion to profanity generally don't watch mass-market TV or films at all, so they are not part of that marketing calculation.)

And yes, the Deaf community really doesn't appreciate the benevolent paternalism, but the Deaf community doesn't have much marketing clout on its own. Besides that, the truth is that the filmmakers figure they make a different hearing-impaired audience happier by censoring: and guess who that is? Think of a population which votes a lot, has the leisure time to watch a lot of movies/television, buys a fair number of tie-in toys, and has a large percentage of hearing loss .... [Jeopardy theme song plays gently] If you guessed, "Who are old people?" then you got it in one. (The toys are for the grandkids.)

 

[person]

I've never understood this either. I cannot understand why swearing or partial nudity are considered so harmful to children, but most people think nothing about them being exposed to violence.


I know many people feel this way, but I guess I just don't quite understand what harm is being done by occasionally cursing in front of a child.

I think I equate it to some people who believe alcohol should never be consumed in front of a child, which I also don't understand. Children are capable of understanding that alcohol is something reserved for adults and I believe it's healthy for them to be exposed to adults enjoying a drink in moderation on occasion. When it is always hidden, I think that's what makes it more "forbidden" and they may not learn the tools to use in moderation or appropriate situations when they become adults themselves.

I would think the same would apply to swearing. If children have never been exposed to it, how do they learn to navigate social cues and determine what situations are appropriate for swearing and which are unacceptable?


Of course the "f-word" means more than "fudge". That's how swearing works. There is an element of taboo which gives those words greater weight. Even within swearing, different words carry different weight. This is understood in each society and is how you can instantly recognize the severity of emotion being expressed between two different swear words.

There are lots of reasons why people swear and it's not just to "look cool". Here are a few examples, most backed by scientific studies:
-- swearing is cathartic
-- to express a direct, succinct emotion (both positive and negative) in a way that any other words would not get across
-- pain relief / the ability to endure greater pain (I have a great lamaze technique involving the f-word )
-- to put others at ease and gain access to a group (this is often helpful in workplace dynamics)
-- humor
-- because it's a natural and universal part of human existence

ETA: There are tons of articles and studies on the subject of swearing, but here's a brief one you may find interesting: Why We Swear: Profanity Is Powerful | Time

I don't like swearing but, then, when one goes to a beach, where ppl are swimming and tanning reasonably, what does one expect?

 

[okeydokey]

I disagree. For whatever reason, society has determined certain words offensive, and others used in the same way aren't.

What’s offensive changes over time.

 

[Mysterian]

We haven't seen the real Mandarin yet, he'll be in Shang Chi.

I heard about this, and really it seems like a Mandarin retcon, just as there's been talks that Shang Chi's origins are also going to be changed. Iron Man 3's treatment of the Mandarin remained MCU canon for years up until more recent news about Shang Chi.

Even Wanda was known for gaining her powers from the Mind Stone, then after Wandavision we learn she was a witch all along.

 

[Dead2009]

If people are THAT concerned with cussing in tv shows....just don't watch it.

 

[elgerber]

I looked back on the schedule, it is called "Frank of Ireland" with Brian and Domhnall Gleeson whose father, Brendan is a favourite of ours.
It is a Channel 4/Amazon production.

ford family

Ooh thanks! I had this on my list and didn't even notice the Gleeson boys, I am big fans!!

 

[RamblingMad]

How did we get from tight wearing heroes in kids’ books to where we are today anyway? I want my clean mouthed red underwear wearing Christopher Reeve.

What? I started reading comics in the 80s. I read a lot of Hellblazer. Comics haven’t been like you’re describing since the 60s. There is a whole storyline with Tony Stark getting over alcohol back in the 80s. Maybe get a Marvel Unlimited subscription and actually read some modern ones.