DVC commercial renters

[Chili327]

Not aggregators like DVC Rental Market, Davids, etc (they just help get them rented), but owners that own more than they would ever use. How would you limit it, i mean i think most of us like to have that option if needed, but how do you divide them up? Limit of points or what would be a good way to handle it?


Subject moved out of another thread that was way off topic. lol
@E2ME2 @HyperspaceMountainPilot @Sandisw

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Not aggregators like DVC Rental Market, Davids, etc (they just help get them rented), but owners that own more than they would ever use. How would you limit it, i mean i think most of us like to have that option if needed, but how do you divide them up? Limit of points or what would be a good way to handle it?


Subject moved out of another thread that was way off topic. lol
@E2ME2 @HyperspaceMountainPilot @Sandisw

There have been a few other threads on this topic. I would be in for of only allowing 50% of points (say over a 3 year period) or less to be rented…gives flexibility to people who want to skip a year or can’t use points for some reason, but would dramatically decrease the profitability for commercial renter owners. I also think allowing bookings at 11mo only for member users and then 9 or 10m for non-owners would help actual owners.

When the economy softens next, I think Disney will crack down because right now the DVC rental market is cannibalizing their cash hotel room bookings. No idea how they will do it, but a lot of people are operating in blatant violation of no commercial renters rules.

 

[Chili327]

I think Disney will crack down because right now the DVC rental market is cannibalizing their cash hotel room bookings. No idea how they will do it, but a lot of people are operating in blatant violation of no commercial renters rules.

That seems reason enough for them to crack down!! Messing with Disneys money. lol

 

[Travel60]

I have 1250 HHI points and have never rented out points so probably a lot I don't understand. But I don't know how DVC can easily identify a reservation as a rental. For example, I made reservations in Hawaii for my daughter and SIL for their honeymoon. I've done ressies for other kids once or twice and as we age and kids have kids, I can see us letting them use points on trips we are not on. My DIL does a girlfriend trip annually and I've told her if they want HHI, I'll see what I can do. No money for any of that. How does DVC know I'm not renting out points or stays?

 

[CamillaF]

I was seriously thinking about getting a fixed Halloween week at the fort. It's my favorite time of year and my Twins Birthdays but decided against it partly because of the dues and partly because of the commercial language. I live on the West cost and getting out to Florida yearly is not a priority. I figured that it would be nice to have the week if we wanted it and that it would rent easily (and we could get out money out) if we did not make it out. As far how you figure out if someone is selling their points. A.I. would be a great tool. It can look at the Facebook post and the resale market and know who is doing it and how often. I assume this language made it in as it will be easier to enforce soon.

 

[Brian Noble]

I can't say how Disney would do it---and that's if they would do it.

But I can tell you how Wyndham* and Bluegreen have done it. They simply decided that Owner X had a pattern of use that was indicative of commercial activity, and told them to stop doing what they were doing. Those who didn't saw their accounts frozen. Note that neither ever explained how they made that decision. They just made it. The way I sometimes describe it is: They shot first and asked questions later, except they didn't bother with question-asking part.

"Disney would never do that!" Maybe not. Lots of people thought they'd never tresspass the private tour guides but here we are.

"The governing documents don't allow that!" Maybe not. But it will probably be an expensive and time consuming process to prove it.

-----------
*: Wyndham did a bunch of other things, including placing a limit on how many times an owner could send a guest that they weren't also traveling with during certain times of the year at certain resorts.

https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinat...rces/reservations/owner-priority-reservations

 

[CarolMN]

Easiest way would probably be to institute "Guest Certificates" whenever a member is not traveling with the guests. DVC could charge (or not) for these and limit the number that can be issued to each membership.

FWIW, I really don't think limiting commercial renters will change availability all that much. For many booking categories, there is more demand than supply and there will always be disappointed members who were unable to secure what they wanted, when they wanted it.

Until Disney determines that renting is a significant drag on their hotel revenue, it's unlikely that anything will be done. This is probably a larger issue in our internet forum than it is among the general membership

 

[GoingSince1990]

I have 1250 HHI points and have never rented out points so probably a lot I don't understand. But I don't know how DVC can easily identify a reservation as a rental. For example, I made reservations in Hawaii for my daughter and SIL for their honeymoon. I've done ressies for other kids once or twice and as we age and kids have kids, I can see us letting them use points on trips we are not on. My DIL does a girlfriend trip annually and I've told her if they want HHI, I'll see what I can do. No money for any of that. How does DVC know I'm not renting out points or stays?

They don’t know and can’t prove that some family you make a reservation for is not your son’s college buddy’s parents’ friends (for example). What they could conceivably do is to do a sting operation on a site listing many confirmed reservations for rent, going through the rental process to determine who the owner of the points is. And if it’s an LLC which owns thousands of points, all with confirmed reservations offered for sale, that is inarguably a “commercial” operation which they have the right to stop. Many of the more intrusive suggestions that people here make wouldn’t work legally; for example, when someone has bought a contract whose terms explicitly allow the points to be rented (which they do), Disney cannot suddenly decide that you are only allowed to rent 50% of them.

 

[Brian Noble]

Until Disney determines that renting is a significant drag on their hotel revenue, it's unlikely that anything will be done.

The other possible reason: If the sales floor starts noticing that a number of people turn them down "because it's easy to rent," then Disney will make it much harder very quickly.

 

[GoingSince1990]

The other possible reason: If the sales floor starts noticing that a number of people turn them down "because it's easy to rent," then Disney will make it much harder very quickly.

And on the flipside, a number of people deciding to pull the trigger and buy, saying “so you’re telling me that if something comes up and I can’t use my points one year, I’m able to rent them out” would push them in the opposite direction.

 

[DebbieB]

And on the flipside, a number of people deciding to pull the trigger and buy, saying “so you’re telling me that if something comes up and I can’t use my points one year, I’m able to rent them out” would push them in the opposite direction.

Just like with walking, I don’t think DVC wants to rock the boat or has the energy to do something. It really doesn’t affect their bottom line.

 

[Brian Noble]

And on the flipside, a number of people deciding to pull the trigger and buy, saying “so you’re telling me that if something comes up and I can’t use my points one year, I’m able to rent them out” would push them in the opposite direction.

That won't change. "You can rent once in a while" and "you can't rent commercially" can be completely consistent positions. At least, they have been for both Wyndham and Bluegreen.

 

[Brian Noble]

Plus, a good sales agent will manage to convince the prospect that they are making vacation a priority with this purchase, and they will find a way to use them to have fun! There's DCL, and ABD, and all these awesome resorts in the Interval International wish book! Surely you can find the time to take one vacation with your family each year. Don't they deserve it? Don't you deserve it?

Allowing the conversation to go too far down the "what happens if I can't use them" road can quickly take a left turn onto "maybe I don't need to buy them" lane.

 

[tom1944]

The other possible reason: If the sales floor starts noticing that a number of people turn them down "because it's easy to rent," then Disney will make it much harder very quickly.

When I started looking at resale contracts that is what I was told-just rent.

I wonder what has a greater impact on Disney’s revenue resale sales or commercial rentals

 

[Brian Noble]

Well, they are doing what they can to discourage resales already, so that might be the answer to your question.

 

[GoingSince1990]

When I started looking at resale contracts that is what I was told-just rent.

I wonder what has a greater impact on Disney’s revenue resale sales or commercial rentals

And again on the flipside, many of us who own started out by renting points, which is great “try before you buy” publicity for DVC. And I never would have even considered buying if there was not a robust, liquid resale market, avoiding the need to turn to the scammy “EXIT YOUR TIMESHARE NOW!!!!” operations if I ever wanted or needed to end my ownership.

 

[robinb]

Like trying to limit walking, this is just another solution in search of a problem. The walkers and the renters have no additional advantage. Every owner with enough points has the same opportunity to book a specific villa at a specific time.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Plus, a good sales agent will manage to convince the prospect that they are making vacation a priority with this purchase, and they will find a way to use them to have fun! There's DCL, and ABD, and all these awesome resorts in the Interval International wish book! Surely you can find the time to take one vacation with your family each year. Don't they deserve it? Don't you deserve it?

Allowing the conversation to go too far down the "what happens if I can't use them" road can quickly take a left turn onto "maybe I don't need to buy them" lane.

They can also still tout banking and borrowing.

"If you can't go one year, that's fine. Just bank your points to use next year. And with borrowing you only need to plan a vacation once every three years to use your points. Still have a surplus? No problem... book more extravagant accommodations! Grand Villas, Bungalows, Cabins, etc. all have your name on them!"

 

[Brian Noble]

I will bet money that DVD does not consider private-rental guests an important component of their tour flow.

 

[Chili327]

I will bet money that DVD does not consider private-rental guests an important component of their tour flow.

Not yet.