Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Naomeri]

 

[nancipants]

Give a girl a couple of margs on her anniversary date, and pitch a couples-weekend trip idea to the husband, and he goes and gets his mom on-board to house sit for us in January.

Now to actually get registered in a month......

(And I'm off to run out some of my excitement on this lovely 50 degree sunny day.)

*raising my hand to run as part of Team Not So Fast*

 

[Herding_Cats]

*raising my hand to run as part of Team Not So Fast*

the idea for a group costume for one of the races may have been brought up during DATW.

Now we just need to know if @Archigeek (hopefully I'm tagging the right name ) is going to sign up for the marathon.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly wrap up. Oh hey! I actually ran this past week!
The weather has been crazy warm here (don't worry, we are paying for is this week as it's snowing again today) so I was happy to get outside and enjoy the mid-50s and sunshine.

Monday: 4mi. GPS was taking way too long to connect, and my map is really off, but it does appear (based on my Wednesday run) that my turn-around point was close enough. 45/30 intervals Ran too fast, and ended up almost entirely in zone 4 for HR. Was a little sore/tight the next day.

Wednesday: 4mi again. 30/30 intervals in an attempt to slow myself done a bit. But I ended up being faster? Same turn-around spot, and finished 2min quicker than Monday, with 12:30 avg pace. OOPS!

We are spending today cleaning and packing for our spring break trip. DS2 and I are running a 5k near Ft Lauderdale the day before we go on our cruise (I've already discussed that) so I had to figure what sparkle skirt to pack. He's really good about training on his own for track when we go on spring break, so I assumed he would be running while on the cruise ship. And then we stopped to consider if he is old enough to be allowed to use the fitness center/treadmills without an adult. Surprise! He's not, so I packed stuff to run almost every day as well. I kind of can't believe I'm going to be the person who runs (or walks) on vacation, but here we are!

Yall. It's SO DIFFICULT to not talk about the MW trip with DH yet. I've got a few charts about points if BIL/SIL come down for the weekend (currently debating between SSR 2br for proximity to DS/food and OKW 2br for sheer size/relaxed vibe.) I'm tracking flight prices. But mostly, I just want to know how long he wants to go down for so I can plan and contingency-plan for which bibs to get. Right now my ranking list for bibs is 1: Goofy, 2: Dopey, 3: 10k and full. I'm 99% sure I'll be able to "get" DH to agree to the half as redemption for our half-of-a-half this year, so that might throw a wrench into things because I feel like I need a year off of 4 consecutive 2am wakeups.

SIL and I are going to do 80 Day Obsession starting on April 1st (that might be a big ask because of everything I have going that day....more on that in a minute) and I found a plan that also incorporates running from a BBOD "coach" that also does distance running. I have no idea if I will be able to manage both, but it seems, on paper to be within the realm of possibility if things at home aren't too crazy. Essentially, you do the workout program as written, except for the "Saturday" workout is removed in place of a long run. And during the week there is an easy run, an easy run or speed/hill run, an optional easy run, and a long run. So 2 short, and 1 long runs per week on top of ~1hr of lifting 6 days a week. The running portion is REALLY close to the same as Higdon's HM Novice 1 plan, so we will see how it all comes together. I'm good at trying to do too much/planning for too much, but I'm trying to ride my current wave of motivation. We'll see if it all comes crashing down in 2 weeks.

But the biggest crazy is....we are getting a Brittany puppy on April 1st! Have no fear, I will post lots of pics. That means this spring we will have: middle school track, high school track, high school baseball (numbers are abysmal this year, so it looks like DH won't have a JV team to coach and will just assist with varsity which is actually a lot less work), doing this workout program, running, AND training a puppy. And DS1 graduating, so the open house/party for that, plus transitioning him to college, etc during summer. The kids don't know, and only like 3 other people outside of myself and DH know. So it's pretty exciting. I'm already planning on training him to be a running partner (goodness knows he'll need the exercise!) and have been lurking around some "running with dogs" groups for appropriate gear, training tips, etc.

 

[RuntheMouse]

Right now my ranking list for bibs is 1: Goofy, 2: Dopey, 3: 10k and full. I'm 99% sure I'll be able to "get" DH to agree to the half as redemption for our half-of-a-half this year, so that might throw a wrench into things because I feel like I need a year off of 4 consecutive 2am wakeups.

Ooohhhh I feel like I just went through this last year! DH wanted to do the half and I wanted to do the full but then Chip & Dale again. So I was all in on #3 on your list until one of the many enablers here told me Goofy opened up again so “almost Dopey again” happened! I did enjoy only getting up early 3 days instead of for sure! Good luck with your discussion with DH!

You sure do have a lot on your plate this year, WHEW! I can’t wait to see puppy pics

 

[accm]

But the biggest crazy is....we are getting a Brittany puppy on April 1st! Have no fear, I will post lots of pics. That means this spring we will have: middle school track, high school track, high school baseball (numbers are abysmal this year, so it looks like DH won't have a JV team to coach and will just assist with varsity which is actually a lot less work), doing this workout program, running, AND training a puppy. And DS1 graduating, so the open house/party for that, plus transitioning him to college, etc during summer. The kids don't know, and only like 3 other people outside of myself and DH know. So it's pretty exciting. I'm already planning on training him to be a running partner (goodness knows he'll need the exercise!) and have been lurking around some "running with dogs" groups for appropriate gear, training tips, etc.

Our boys have started asking us to get a dog recently, after our dog died unexpectedly last summer. We're so busy though, that I don't thinking adding a puppy is a good idea. I can't wait to see puppy pictures and hear about training him to be a running partner. We tried to take our dog for a run a few times, but he only had one speed, and we were not fast enough.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Our boys have started asking us to get a dog recently, after our dog died unexpectedly last summer. We're so busy though, that I don't thinking adding a puppy is a good idea. I can't wait to see puppy pictures and hear about training him to be a running partner. We tried to take our dog for a run a few times, but he only had one speed, and we were not fast enough.

We really debated if it was the right time, but what brought us around is that NOW is when we have enough time (before school is out) to get a really good start on the basics, and while our current dog is still young enough to be a good model of what indoor behavior looks like (and be a calm presence.)

I looked at a lot of our local (and national breed specific) rescues and either their policies didn’t work great with our situation, or I don’t love how they run their adoptions. But if you can find the right one, there are some great adult dogs out there.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Well crud. Maybe I need to make another plan? With the confirmation of the 2:30/5:00 POT threshold, do I go for it and train really hard for 3 months and try for a POT? Or do I just chill and do other stuff and be fine. Which, honestly, I am OK with not being in a POT corral....but the competitive side of me wants to be in a POT corral. *sigh*

A 2:22 POT makes for a 10:49 pace. That's hella fast for me. My current PR for a HM is 2:40 and change. Just looking at the math for this tells me how much of a stretch this would be.

The positive:
I've never ran a race for time where my training cycle was intended to make me faster. My current HM PR is from a higdon novice plan, with no speedwork, and on a day where the T+D wasn't great, but wasn't horrible. There is a very flat, local race that would be really inexpensive for me to go for a POT in the end of June, so that's would give me maximum time to train, and allow for me to sign up late IF training went well and I felt like I could try. I could swap my current 80DO plan (weights with a side of running) for a PR-plan, and then take the focus-break from running after the race, and then take the break from running until September or so when I would need to start training for MW. So I would still be accomplishing the things I want in the calendar year....just in a different order. There's a chance I could get someone to pace me.

The negative:
Peak training would occur when our schedule is busy, work is busy, AND in the end of June when the weather could be in the 60s or 80s in the morning. It's an out-and-back race that crosses 3 more-used roads, and 2 other dead-end residential roads. So double that. I would like to try to lose some weight and training for performance is not the best time to be restricting calories. I haven't run (actual running) in 2 months. I've done reffing, and my cardio isn't completely gone, but it's a lesser starting point than I'd like. The paces I've used for the last few years of training have indicated that I "should" be able to run a 2:29, and I haven't come close to that.

The realist:
We are really busy in the spring. We have a LOT going on. Nailing a heavy training plan is unlikely to happen. An 18min PR is a LOT. It's a lofty, and possibly unrealistic idea. 10:49 is almost my current 5k PR pace. I've been running for 3 years now and I haven't really gotten faster, so thinking that I could suddenly run sub-11s for over 2 hours might not be a thing my body will do.

 

[The Expert]

Selfishly, I would love for you to be in a POT corral so we could do more of the race(s) together! This is also a pretty big stretch -- 18 minutes in an HM is a lot. But I'd commit and go for it.

Give yourself a deadline to sign up for that race and if life has happened or you just aren't feeling it, you can always back out. But why not see what you can do?

 

[Herding_Cats]

Selfishly, I would love for you to be in a POT corral so we could do more of the race(s) together! This is also a pretty big stretch -- 18 minutes in an HM is a lot. But I'd commit and go for it.

Give yourself a deadline to sign up for that race and if life has happened or you just aren't feeling it, you can always back out. But why not see what you can do?

I could signup morning-of. Those races are super-chill.

 

[sandam1]

I'm going to suggest listening to the realist. Training for time goal/increasing speed is asking A LOT - even without everything that will be going on in your life. Plus speedwork comes with an increased risk of injury. Is that really how you want to go into a training cycle for a marathon/Goofy/Dopey?

It's okay to say no!

 

[GollyGadget]

If you can dream it, you can do it!

But seriously, I do think if you buckled down and did the training that you could achieve the new PoT standard. The question is if you can/want to make training for the half a priority. It's totally okay if the answer is no but only you can answer that question.

 

[Herding_Cats]

If you can dream it, you can do it!

But seriously, I do think if you buckled down and did the training that you could achieve the new PoT standard. The question is if you can/want to make training for the half a priority. It's totally okay if the answer is no but only you can answer that question.

I honestly don't know. That's the real answer. I don't know how puppy training will go, I don't know what the weather will be like, I don't know if we will have childcare available for me to work this summer (I'm not working right now, and wouldn't start until school ends in early June), and I don't know how much support I'll get if I decide that I want to train hard for 3 months, take 2 months "off" and then start back up with marathon training. And if the wheels are going to fall off, it'll be in June, the worst possible time.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I'm going to suggest listening to the realist. Training for time goal/increasing speed is asking A LOT - even without everything that will be going on in your life. Plus speedwork comes with an increased risk of injury. Is that really how you want to go into a training cycle for a marathon/Goofy/Dopey?

It's okay to say no!

These are all good points. And are the main reason that this is even a question instead of "I'm going to try for a massive PR, consequences be damned."

 

[sandam1]

These are all good points. And are the main reason that this is even a question instead of "I'm going to try for a massive PR, consequences be damned."

As someone who has spent A LOT of time trying to (unsuccessfully) put the square peg in the round hole, I understand both sides of the coin. However, I can tell you that my life became a lot happier/more peaceful when I stopped doing that on a regular basis.

Now, I can go all in on the things that I really, really, REALLY want because I've given up on the things that I kind of want and/or things that I think I "should" do.

Just something to think about...

 

[Cabius]

That's a really tough dilemma!

Personally, I would feel very frustrated and disappointed if I decided to go for it, ended up not having the time to train properly, and then fell short. It's the worst of both worlds: extra stress and sacrifice and work, without the result.

On the other hand, it might be a great motivator to prioritize training during otherwise hectic seasons of life, and to make some breakthroughs!

If you don't have to sign up ahead of time, maybe you could approach it as a series of checkpoints and off-ramps.

Put together a training plan that would realistically equip you for that, look at it, and decide if it's feasible enough to even start. If you look at the hours/mileage/paces and think 'no way', there's an off-ramp.

Once you start training, have periodic check-ins where you run pace trials and see if you're getting closer to the speed and conditioning you'd need. If you're halfway through and still far off of the 1-mile or 5k paces you need to hit, maybe that's another off-ramp where you can recalibrate your expectations for that race.

It's a very aggressive goal on a very aggressive timeline, so you have to be equally aggressive to succeed at it. But if you decide to go for it, we'll be here to read and cheer along with you!

 

[Herding_Cats]

If I decide to go for it, Higdon Int. 2 seems like the easy winner on a few fronts. It's the right number of weeks. I've used his plans before. There's 2 rest days. No crazy mileage. I'd probably shift the rest day to a Tuesday or Thursday so I could match DD's days off school. It just hurts my brain to see that the *only* speedwork is 400m repeats (alternating with "tempo" runs) AND he doesn't tell you what to do for recovery between repeats (walk? jog?) or how long that recovery interval should be.




But is it aggressive enough? Should I be doing 2 speed sessions/week?

Enter Higdon Advanced. 2 Speed sessions (repeats or hills AND a tempo run) every week. Only 1 day off, and 1 XC day. Not gonna lie....this one looks like I would want to curl up and die by week 7. More risk, more potential reward? But I also wonder if I *started* with advanced and it was too much, it would be a rather easy change to drop down to Int 2, instead of the other way around. Or if I would just crash and burn into a whimpering pile of mush. Could be one of the stupidest things I've ever done to my body. Or it could work.

Coming back to add that I know more doesn't always equal better when it comes to training.

 

[The Expert]

If you don't have to sign up ahead of time, maybe you could approach it as a series of checkpoints and off-ramps.

Put together a training plan that would realistically equip you for that, look at it, and decide if it's feasible enough to even start. If you look at the hours/mileage/paces and think 'no way', there's an off-ramp.

Once you start training, have periodic check-ins where you run pace trials and see if you're getting closer to the speed and conditioning you'd need. If you're halfway through and still far off of the 1-mile or 5k paces you need to hit, maybe that's another off-ramp where you can recalibrate your expectations for that race.

This is great advice!

 

[Cabius]

If I decide to go for it, Higdon Int. 2 seems like the easy winner on a few fronts. It's the right number of weeks. I've used his plans before. There's 2 rest days. No crazy mileage. I'd probably shift the rest day to a Tuesday or Thursday so I could match DD's days off school. It just hurts my brain to see that the *only* speedwork is 400m repeats (alternating with "tempo" runs) AND he doesn't tell you what to do for recovery between repeats (walk? jog?) or how long that recovery interval should be.

View attachment 843215


But is it aggressive enough? Should I be doing 2 speed sessions/week?

Enter Higdon Advanced. 2 Speed sessions (repeats or hills AND a tempo run) every week. Only 1 day off, and 1 XC day. Not gonna lie....this one looks like I would want to curl up and die by week 7. More risk, more potential reward? But I also wonder if I *started* with advanced and it was too much, it would be a rather easy change to drop down to Int 2, instead of the other way around. Or if I would just crash and burn into a whimpering pile of mush. Could be one of the stupidest things I've ever done to my body. Or it could work.
View attachment 843217

It sounds like you're on a pretty compressed timeline. Do you have the time to do some focused speed work before starting a training plan, or given the timeline would this just be it?

I know it can be tough to gain speed aggressively through a single training plan. Either the target paces start out discouragingly fast (even if you can hit them, barely, the workout is way too hard to safely sustain), or else you have to sort of stair-step up every few weeks (e.g. your goal 5k pace may be 9:45/mi, but if you can only hit 10:35/mi at first, you do that and try to bump up 0:10/mi every couple of weeks as conditioning improves).

Assuming I only had the 12 weeks, I would personally do a hybrid of the two plans, with two speed workouts per week, but maybe not the added long run mileage of the Advanced plan (at least for the first half). The important thing is to see if you can start to hit those target paces at all. My goal would be to build speed as quickly as I possibly could without injuring myself, then focus on building endurance and sustaining that speed. Endurance is critical to success, but if you are dead-set on a certain pace, it doesn't matter that much if you can sustain a slower pace.

Since the pace goals are so aggressive, I do think the Tempo runs would be a helpful complement to the intervals, so you can train for 5k speed in short bursts, but also translate that into sustained speed for 2-4 miles at a time. It also gives you a good check-in. If you can't hit your goal pace on a 3- or 4-mile tempo run halfway through, that's potentially an off-ramp. If you can, then you have to focus on building endurance.

===

A bit of personal experience -- I started running again in November after almost a year of little-to-no exercise, just putting in 10-15 miles/week. I started a 16-week marathon training plan on 1/1, so I'm basically 12 weeks in.

My first two weeks, I ran two 2-mile Tempo runs with an average speed of 10:40/mile and an average heart rate of 172bpm. Oof.

I the last two weeks, I ran 6- and 7-mile Tempo runs with an average speed of 10:10/mile and an average heart rate of 156bpm. Yay!

For the first four weeks, I was running 3-4 times per week, with one speed workout and only 15 total miles.

For the last four weeks, I've been running 6-7 times per week, with two speed workouts and 35-45 total miles. I think both the speed workouts and the high volume of easy miles were both really really beneficial for me.

Since I was starting from a pretty low base of mileage and conditioning, I saw pretty dramatic results in a pretty short timeframe. On January 1, my 'easy' pace was a sometimes difficult 14:30-15:00 min/mile, and I would've struggled to finish a HM in much less than 3 hours. After the last 12 weeks, I'm certain I could run a sub-2:22 HM this weekend.

But it's taken a LOT of work -- 333 miles in the last 11 weeks -- and I was starting from a very low base level of fitness. You may be in better starting shape than I was and have less room for easy improvement, or you may not have the time to put in the easy mileage that you need to build aerobic capacity.

But I thought that might be a helpful reference point as you consider how to proceed.

 

[Herding_Cats]

12 weeks starts me the week after we get back from our spring break cruise. And while I am planning on running while on-board, I'm not going to be doing anything major because: vacation. I'm only going to be running so DS2 can access the fitness center instead of dealing with the tiny track. I've pretty much avoided all speedwork for 3 years....the hardest thing I've done being T repeats (I may have done some R repeats too, but that was 2 years ago.)

I have no idea what kind of paces I can hit right now.