First MNSSHP - Oversold?

[dlavender]

I'm just curious for those who are dissatisfied:

Would you rather a hard cap at say 60 percent of current levels, pretty much assuring every party night is an early sell out, so getting in requires long-term advanced purchase?
or
More parties, so there are fewer "regular" days with longer hours?
or
Ticket prices increased to the point where the crowds diminish because of value?
or
WDW abandon the idea altogether?

Or if you've got another idea, please share it. Not trying to be snarky, but I can see how many people are frustrated with the event, and I'm wondering what their solution might be.

After experiencing the crowds last year at this event, my suggestion is the same as it always is......more stuff!

If candy lines are more than 10 mins, make more stations.....

Character greets too long? More character greets......

Waits for snacks to long? More carts.....

The only thing that they can't really help are the parade crowds. 2 parades is pretty much the max they can run. I can accept that.

 

[inspectorgadget]

I've been to two sold out parties on Halloween and truthfully - they weren't that bad. But we don't meet characters, we like to do the rides and collect candy. We've always had a good time.

Same here. We've been to 2 parties and both were sold out. It wasn't on Halloween, both were in September. And we don't meet characters either, just do rides and candy. We had a fabulous time both times! I guess it really depends on what one is looking for in the party.

But is it possible that more tickets are being sold this year? I went in 2015 and 2017 (both sold out) and it honestly wasn't that bad. I also remember reading about the first party last year with the bloggers/media and people said it was bad then too.

 

[MIAMouseketeer]

I'm just curious for those who are dissatisfied:

Would you rather a hard cap at say 60 percent of current levels, pretty much assuring every party night is an early sell out, so getting in requires long-term advanced purchase?
or
More parties, so there are fewer "regular" days with longer hours?
or
Ticket prices increased to the point where the crowds diminish because of value?
or
WDW abandon the idea altogether?

Or if you've got another idea, please share it. Not trying to be snarky, but I can see how many people are frustrated with the event, and I'm wondering what their solution might be.

So I am the OP. The reason this post started is that Pete Werner stated he had heard from multiple sources, the party was in fact oversold. Now I know Disney doesn't give out numbers, so there is no way to know this for sure, but I trust that Pete has inside sources that are credible. So for this particular instance, my wish is that it NOT be oversold. And if they have raised capacity, then I think they need to lower capacity so that participating in the activities can be done in a reasonable time. I don't think waiting 30 minutes to buy a bottle of water is reasonable.
Now, the lines for characters will always be long because many times they are rare. I'm fine with that. But all of you can view the Touring Plans video online (I think someone posted it as well), you can see the lines for candy and at the concessions. It was extremely excessive. Pete also stated on Monday that it was the most packed opening day party he had ever seen. I hope for everyone else who have bought tickets that this was an opening night issue and does not continue throughout the season. For myself, I will be waiting for reports regarding the Christmas Party before I buy tickets for our December trip. We don't attend the parties to ride rides. We have done EMM & DAH, both which we love. But those events are for riding rides as walk ons. We go to the parties to participate in the party and when you can't do that, it's a waste of money for us as annual passholders.

 

[whiporee]

So I am the OP. The reason this post started is that Pete Werner stated he had heard from multiple sources, the party was in fact oversold. Now I know Disney doesn't give out numbers, so there is no way to know this for sure, but I trust that Pete has inside sources that are credible. So for this particular instance, my wish is that it NOT be oversold. And if they have raised capacity, then I think they need to lower capacity so that participating in the activities can be done in a reasonable time. I don't think waiting 30 minutes to buy a bottle of water is reasonable.
Now, the lines for characters will always be long because many times they are rare. I'm fine with that. But all of you can view the Touring Plans video online (I think someone posted it as well), you can see the lines for candy and at the concessions. It was extremely excessive. Pete also stated on Monday that it was the most packed opening day party he had ever seen. I hope for everyone else who have bought tickets that this was an opening night issue and does not continue throughout the season. For myself, I will be waiting for reports regarding the Christmas Party before I buy tickets for our December trip. We don't attend the parties to ride rides. We have done EMM & DAH, both which we love. But those events are for riding rides as walk ons. We go to the parties to participate in the party and when you can't do that, it's a waste of money for us as annual passholders.

I'm not trying to defend the Mouse at all, but I think that using terms like "oversold" is misleading, because there isn't a number attached. I read earlier in this thread that a sold out party was like a 7, and I think that's a stretch -- if you consider the median attendance at MK is about 56K (which would have to be a 5), I'd be astounded if the party attendance is any higher than 40K for purely logistical reasons -- it's probably more like a 4 if you look at the overall, non 7DMT or special character wait times. Oversold has a connotation like an oversold flight where there are no actual seats for people, and no space to move around at all. None of the videos I saw showed that -- there may have been more people there than anyone wanted, but it's not as though any aspect of the event was beyond functional capacity.

And as much as I enjoy Pete and his podcasts, I do think he gets caught up in Good-Ol'-Days syndrome sometimes, and using terms like oversold for an event like this is an example of it. Unless there are numbers attached -- a before number and an after number -- there's no way to know whether WDW went over its limits for the event or not. I do know -- because they put up signs -- that they did in fact stop selling tickets to it. And they may have increased the number to tickets they sell. But since they aren't approaching park capacity, they may have made efforts to reduce waits that just didn't work. Or not. We've got no way of knowing. All we know is that some people waited for things longer than they wanted to. But even with that, there's no definitions -- were water lines 30 minutes all night? Were all the treat lines backed up, or just the ones in high-traffic areas? Were all the characters 2-hour waits, or were some walk-ups? I've no doubt the parties are all more attended than they once were, and that's unfortunate. But I do wonder what the acceptable solution is, because it's not obvious to me.

 

[billyjobobb]

Disney could run parties the way they are now and parties with guaranteed half the people, but double or even triple the price.

The less crowded, more expensive parties would sell out.

 

[dlavender]

But I do wonder what the acceptable solution is, because it's not obvious to me.

It's actually pretty obvious.....more stuff!

 

[OhhBother]

We've been going to MNSHHP every year for - well, a long time. It remains one of our favorite events at WDW. Last year, we did two in one week. We don't do character meet and greets. We spend our time trick or treating, riding our favorite rides over and over with minimal wait times and enjoying the fireworks and second parade. We always watch the fireworks in front of the castle -- walking up about five minutes before. We always have plenty of room -- it's nothing like watching HEA. Then we enjoy the second parade, never having any trouble finding a spot in the Liberty Square area.

Every year, the first party of the season is a mess. But then things calm down and are fine. We're headed to MNSSHP Sept. 18, and we fully expect to have the same great time we have every year.

 

[billyjobobb]

How much would it really cost to split the lines and have 2 sets of the characters at each spot? I realize that if the lines were shorter, more people would get in line and it may well be that overall the times might not go down much, but how many tickets would they need to add in order to hire another jack and Sally and their handlers?

 

[StacyStrong]

I'm not trying to defend the Mouse at all, but I think that using terms like "oversold" is misleading, because there isn't a number attached. I read earlier in this thread that a sold out party was like a 7, and I think that's a stretch -- if you consider the median attendance at MK is about 56K (which would have to be a 5), I'd be astounded if the party attendance is any higher than 40K for purely logistical reasons -- it's probably more like a 4 if you look at the overall, non 7DMT or special character wait times. Oversold has a connotation like an oversold flight where there are no actual seats for people, and no space to move around at all. None of the videos I saw showed that -- there may have been more people there than anyone wanted, but it's not as though any aspect of the event was beyond functional capacity.

And as much as I enjoy Pete and his podcasts, I do think he gets caught up in Good-Ol'-Days syndrome sometimes, and using terms like oversold for an event like this is an example of it. Unless there are numbers attached -- a before number and an after number -- there's no way to know whether WDW went over its limits for the event or not. I do know -- because they put up signs -- that they did in fact stop selling tickets to it. And they may have increased the number to tickets they sell. But since they aren't approaching park capacity, they may have made efforts to reduce waits that just didn't work. Or not. We've got no way of knowing. All we know is that some people waited for things longer than they wanted to. But even with that, there's no definitions -- were water lines 30 minutes all night? Were all the treat lines backed up, or just the ones in high-traffic areas? Were all the characters 2-hour waits, or were some walk-ups? I've no doubt the parties are all more attended than they once were, and that's unfortunate. But I do wonder what the acceptable solution is, because it's not obvious to me.

Okay yes. Disney doesn't give out numbers

But it's crazy to think that behind the scenes Disney isn't like "okay for this event we will sell 25k tickets"

It is then crazy to think that it isn't possible they aren't like "oh shoot, we accidentally sold 30k"

Operational capacity during a party isn't the same as during the day, so a party can, in fact, be oversold even though the attendance is significantly lower than during day.

There is less (open) infrastructure and CMs working.

I'm not saying any of this happened. I'm saying I wouldn't be shocked to find out they made a mistake and that mistake was leaked.

"Oversold" isn't misleading. It's just unconfirmed.

 

[OneinThree]

Okay yes. Disney doesn't give out numbers

But it's crazy to think that behind the scenes Disney isn't like "okay for this event we will sell 25k tickets"

It is then crazy to think that it isn't possible they aren't like "oh shoot, we accidentally sold 30k"

Operational capacity during a party isn't the same as during the day, so a party can, in fact, be oversold even though the attendance is significantly lower than during day.

There is less (open) infrastructure and CMs working.

I'm not saying any of this happened. I'm saying I wouldn't be shocked to find out they made a mistake and that mistake was leaked.

"Oversold" isn't misleading. It's just unconfirmed.

I don't see the value in focusing on the term "oversold", in and of itself, although I am looking forward to Pete's own in-depth explanation. What really matters more to me is that experienced voices showed up and were really disappointed at the increased crowd levels vs past parties, to the point that it compromised the experience for them.

 

[dlavender]

How much would it really cost to split the lines and have 2 sets of the characters at each spot? I realize that if the lines were shorter, more people would get in line and it may well be that overall the times might not go down much, but how many tickets would they need to add in order to hire another jack and Sally and their handlers?

How many tickets would they need to add in order to pay a DCP $9/hr to put on a costume? I'm going with 1....

This is exactly my thought everytime.....They have M&G's already during the day with multiples of the same character (spoiler alert)....

You are telling me WDW cant set this up during MNSSHP? They certainly can. To me its an example of setting margins too tight. Roll out some extra snack carts, put out more characters. Spend the extra money on labor to match the increased price of the event. They run tight and sometimes they are caught in these situations. It's why people should voice their complaints.

 

[StacyStrong]

I don't see the value in focusing on the term "oversold", in and of itself, although I am looking forward to Pete's own in-depth explanation. What really matters more to me is that experienced voices showed up and were really disappointed at the increased crowd levels vs past parties, to the point that it compromised the experience for them.

I find it hard to rely on reports personally because there were a lot of other people who said they had a blast.

It's something I would need to experience for myself.

Everyone has different expectations, so I personally listen to how people felt, and try to figure out if I would have felt the same way.

What might have been a value to one person may not be to me and vice versa. Neither is wrong and both opinions are valid. If someone doesn't want to spend money in the future because of their experience, I get it. But I try to remember that that may not be my experience - even on the same night.

Then again, I likely would never go to a Halloween event with all of Orlando's bloggers in August anyway lol. (I understand that was the only option for some, but to me that's not worth it and I would do something else. I get that to others it is)

 

[Missyrose]

How much would it really cost to split the lines and have 2 sets of the characters at each spot? I realize that if the lines were shorter, more people would get in line and it may well be that overall the times might not go down much, but how many tickets would they need to add in order to hire another jack and Sally and their handlers?

But what would Disney's motivation be for doing this? The whole point of this thread is that Disney is selling more tickets than ever to the parties, so why spend more money on the party attractions? There have been threads like this almost every year for the past decade about how much more crowded MNSSHP is than it used to be. Disney is having no trouble selling the tickets, so why "plus" the offerings?

 

[OneinThree]

I find it hard to rely on reports personally

Then this entire thread is a complete waste of your time. If a picture is worth a thousand words, how much would you say the TP video is worth? There was plenty there for anyone to see that the crowd level was silly for a "hard ticket event".

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Yes, these types of threads often pop up this time of year... and many of them end up closed when they make the turn into arguing/bickering. We’re all entitled to our opinions, let’s all be respectful in this discussion please.

Thank you.

 

[greg9x]

Guess will see tonight if last party was just a first one blues.

Agree need more snack carts... Lines were long at a lot of food places and had difficulty finding a quick place to grab a water... Finally found the pretzle stand in Fantasy Land that didn't have a wait and was very dehydrated due to the heat that night. (Even tried one of the anemic water fountains, but couldn't get more than a few sips from it)

For the price paid they could even give out free water at stations.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Guess will see tonight if last party was just a first one blues.

My guess is you’ll see a bit more of the same, maybe without the media crowd.

There’s a reason tonight’s party is $14 more expensive than next Tuesday’s party.

Late summer crowds are still there and there’s enough demand to sell higher priced tickets, before ratcheting down in price for late Aug/most of Sept when things are traditionally slower.

 

[MIAMouseketeer]

Guess will see tonight if last party was just a first one blues.

Agree need more snack carts... Lines were long at a lot of food places and had difficulty finding a quick place to grab a water... Finally found the pretzle stand in Fantasy Land that didn't have a wait and was very dehydrated due to the heat that night. (Even tried one of the anemic water fountains, but couldn't get more than a few sips from it)

For the price paid they could even give out free water at stations.

As the original OP, I do expect tonight to be better. Maybe that's just me being hopeful. Obviously it won't do me any good, but I do think the first night was a fluke and probably oversold (whatever that could mean). I know the first Disney After Hours had glitches, yet we loved it in March. But I don't discount those that went to that first one just because my experience was different, like others have done to me here.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I am beginning to wonder about the affect of insta/youtubber crowd influxes. I think this is going to becoming a bigger consideration in regular fan trip planning. There are ALOT of people trying to get Disney instagram accounts or youtube accounts going and are anxious to have the content first. The first party or first day of a festival I think are going to be packed for here on out.

 

[yulilin3]

I'm going to echo @GADisneyDad14 to please keep this thread as civil and bicker free as possible. Like it is repeated time and time again, everyone is entitled to their opinion and no one is completely right or wrong.
Having said that I will add my opinion on this party, as a long time attendee (have gone for the past 15 years almost every year) there is an increase in crowds, be it that there has been an increase in attendance ever since 9/11, there are more people with more money, there are more people wanting to attend these parties...
Character lines have always been long for a while but with the cancellation of Villains Mix and Mingle (where you could line up and meet several Disney Villains after the shows) I believe the character experience has gone down. With only 7D and Jack and Sally as the very popular ones they are getting huge lines, also with the popularity of websites like this one more people know to get in line early/wait until the end of the night or after fireworks so what used to be a nice surprise, like walking around and find a character with short line, is now more of a planning experience.
Since we have done so many parties and have met all the characters (this year we are getting in line for Elvis Stitch, we usually do the parties for the parade, show, fireworks, candy and general atmosphere. We do not use these parties to ride any attractions so for us the experience is still a fun one.
Also the first party is always a mess, it's like Disney forgets how to put these on after each year so I wouldn't base my decision to go from just the 1st party.