Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[Paul Stupin]

As someone who has sold well over 6 contracts, I made clear to my brokers that my bottom line was not to be shared with buyers and my guess is they never will, nor should they share that.

The point is that many here on the Dis do seem, in fact, have a much different view of lower offers not being low than I bet the average public does.

I still think that beyond a “we received your offer”, if an offer is much below what they are seeing happening…which as a buyer you don’t know what they are seeing…no action is needed if they have directions from the seller.

I think you’re right, Sandy. I value my relationship with the DVC broker community because, as we all know, there aren’t that many of them! The times I’ve had low ball offers accepted were when I actually spoke to the broker, being as courteous as possible, sounding them out, and got to the point where the broker was willing to give it a try.

If the broker says the price won’t work, I either thank them anyway or raise the offer. If I were to just send out lowball emails, I don’t think anyone has an obligation to respond.

 

[tom1944]

I think you’re right, Sandy. I value my relationship with the DVC broker community because, as we all know, there aren’t that many of them! The times I’ve had low ball offers accepted were when I actually spoke to the broker, being as courteous as possible, sounding them out, and got to the point where the broker was willing to give it a try.

If the broker says the price won’t work, I either thank them anyway or raise the offer. If I were to just send out lowball emails, I don’t think anyone has an obligation to respond.

I was thinking of reaching out and discussing the pool of contracts they have for the use years and range of points I am interested in rather than bidding on one specific contract. Discussing the price, I am willing to pay based on the total points I am buying.

Something along the lines of you have 7 listing with 200 points and I would like to spend x amount. Would any of your seven sellers be interested.

 

[thelionqueen]

I think you’re right, Sandy. I value my relationship with the DVC broker community because, as we all know, there aren’t that many of them! The times I’ve had low ball offers accepted were when I actually spoke to the broker, being as courteous as possible, sounding them out, and got to the point where the broker was willing to give it a try.

If the broker says the price won’t work, I either thank them anyway or raise the offer. If I were to just send out lowball emails, I don’t think anyone has an obligation to respond.

Again, lowball is subjective. What you consider lowball, the owner may consider more than they expected. Only the seller should make that determination imo. The broker should present all offers regardless of personal opinion.

Now having a conversation is always better than email, so I def agree on that, but absolutely no reason at all why a buyer should have to substantiate or defend an offer. Nor does a seller have to explain the acceptance or rejection of one.

I’m actually perfectly ok with a broker saying, “That’s really low, and likely not going to fly.” And they’re not wrong most of the time. That’s cool, let’s find out That doesn’t make my offer any more or less serious than another offer that’s higher. My offer could be $50k while another $15k..who is more serious of a buyer? Should I be treated better because it’s a higher dollar amount? No, each potential buyer should be treated equally.

I’m a bit confused as to why a conversation is any different than an email-it’s still a low offer right? By your reasoning, it appears as if you’d be perfectly fine with the broker hanging up on you while presenting your offer. Or at minimum, understand why they’d hang up on you..if I’m understanding this correctly. It’s the same thing as ignoring an email, just easier to do electronically without any accountability. The brokers should be professional and courteous as well as buyers, no need to be rude or disrespectful to anyone ever.

Again, I understand and appreciate hearing others opinions and circumstances, each is unique and has value and reason. I’m simply stating that a broker should do their job at its most basic level. Be professional, courteous & respectful. Ignoring someone for any reason is none of those.

 

[thelionqueen]

I was thinking of reaching out and discussing the pool of contracts they have for the use years and range of points I am interested in rather than bidding on one specific contract. Discussing the price, I am willing to pay based on the total points I am buying.

Something along the lines of you have 7 listing with 200 points and I would like to spend x amount. Would any of your seven sellers be interested.

That’s a fantastic idea!! Brilliant!

 

[thelionqueen]

The broker gets to make the choice. Just like you are crossing off certain brokers off your list, brokers are crossing certain sellers off their list.

I’m assuming you meant crossing buyers off their list, not sellers..maybe both?

And I don’t think that’s how brokering is meant to work. And actually that sounds a bit discriminatory which would be illegal, not to mention other negative repercussions

 

[Sandisw]

I’m assuming you meant crossing buyers off their list, not sellers..maybe both?

And I don’t think that’s how brokering is meant to work. And actually that sounds a bit discriminatory which would be illegal, not to mention other negative repercussions

I agree that a broker can’t refuse to submit an offer based on who is making it, But, the brokers do have conversations with sellers when they list and they go through a lot of the numbers, etc., when it is decided what price to list for and even what price the seller is willing to accept.

So, while you may think the broker is adding just a personal opinion, they are most likely sharing what they do because they know where the seller is at and may in fact know.

Again, I don’t think anyone believes a broker should simply ignore someone and not let you know it’s been received.

 

[NorCalFanatic]

I don’t think it’s discriminatory or illegal at all if it’s based on someone being a PIA (not saying that’s the case here, just saying any business can choose to not do business with someone, it’s when you get into race, sexuality, religion it becomes an issue). Years ago I had a client who was demanding, unreasonable and looked for any opportunity to not pay or whittle down the what the job was quoted for based on their perceived issues. Finally got to the point where we just refused their work, not interested, and told them to go elsewhere. They threatened to “ruin us” but of course nothing happened and we continued as usual with our other clients. Nothing illegal or discriminatory about what we did.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Again, lowball is subjective. What you consider lowball, the owner may consider more than they expected. Only the seller should make that determination imo. The broker should present all offers regardless of personal opinion.

Now having a conversation is always better than email, so I def agree on that, but absolutely no reason at all why a buyer should have to substantiate or defend an offer. Nor does a seller have to explain the acceptance or rejection of one.

I’m actually perfectly ok with a broker saying, “That’s really low, and likely not going to fly.” And they’re not wrong most of the time. That’s cool, let’s find out That doesn’t make my offer any more or less serious than another offer that’s higher. My offer could be $50k while another $15k..who is more serious of a buyer? Should I be treated better because it’s a higher dollar amount? No, each potential buyer should be treated equally.

I’m a bit confused as to why a conversation is any different than an email-it’s still a low offer right? By your reasoning, it appears as if you’d be perfectly fine with the broker hanging up on you while presenting your offer. Or at minimum, understand why they’d hang up on you..if I’m understanding this correctly. It’s the same thing as ignoring an email, just easier to do electronically without any accountability. The brokers should be professional and courteous as well as buyers, no need to be rude or disrespectful to anyone ever.

Again, I understand and appreciate hearing others opinions and circumstances, each is unique and has value and reason. I’m simply stating that a broker should do their job at its most basic level. Be professional, courteous & respectful. Ignoring someone for any reason is none of those.

For me, having a conversation with the broker has been far more effective than lobbing an email in their direction. I think if you’re courteous and respectful, and convey that you are truly interested in that specific contract, as opposed to the offer being one of 15 emails you might have sent out that day, they're more willing to give it a try.

Also, we have no idea if being a broker is actually their full time job. Now I don’t mean to make excuses, but if they’re juggling a lot of things in their lives, one e-mail offer way below current market price might be easy to ignore.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think it’s discriminatory or illegal at all if it’s based on someone being a PIA (not saying that’s the case here, just saying any business can choose to not do business with someone, it’s when you get into race, sexuality, religion it becomes an issue). Years ago I had a client who was demanding, unreasonable and looked for any opportunity to not pay or whittle down the what the job was quoted for based on their perceived issues. Finally got to the point where we just refused their work, not interested, and told them to go elsewhere. They threatened to “ruin us” but of course nothing happened and we continued as usual with our other clients. Nothing illegal or discriminatory about what we did.

In this case, it would be an issue because the FL law regarding transaction brokers requires all offers to be presented to a seller unless the seller has given them different rules.

So, if there is no directive, the broker must present it…however, I don’t think there is anything that prevents a broker from blocking someone’s email so an offer is never received.

 

[New Mouse]

This could be solved by the broker simply setting up an email to copy and paste if the seller has told them their bottom number. Not responding is literally someone not wanting to do their job, but also not surprising.

The commissions these places try to take for doing next to nothing is absurd

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

In this case, it would be an issue because the FL law regarding transaction brokers requires all offers to be presented to a seller unless the seller has given them different rules.

So, if there is no directive, the broker must present it…however, I don’t think there is anything that prevents a broker from blocking someone’s email so an offer is never received.

This right here! Brokers MUST present all offers unless they have instruction from the Seller that states otherwise. If the Seller's don't provide the broker with direction, then the broker is required to present the offer. It doesn't matter if its a low ball offer or not. It doesn't matter if the Broker thinks the buyer is a pain. It's the law.

There are good Brokers and there are bad ones IMO. When I've sold, I always give my listings to the good ones.

 

[disneylandtour]

In this case, it would be an issue because the FL law regarding transaction brokers requires all offers to be presented to a seller unless the seller has given them different rules.

I also think that there's a contextual cap here, too. If an SSR contract is listed at $100/pp and the broker receives an offer for $80, which the seller rejects with no counter, then the seller has conveyed, through practice, they will not accept an offer of $80 or less, nor will they counter on this. I believe this gives the broker the ability to turn down all subsequent offers of $80 or less. Information has been conveyed through practice. I'd say this is what a good broker will do, reject offers without contacting the seller that are identical to or lower than previous rejected offers. An offer of $81 the broker may have a fiduciary responsibility to present to the seller, but not offers at $80 or below, as that has already been established as unacceptable.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Lowball has such a negative connotation too. We should rename those offers to something Disney like...maybe Value offers?

Also if you think about it "value offers" are what lead to price discovery. The resale market, although seeming to be, really isn't very liquid. If this was like equities and efficient market rules applied we would all be buying contracts at the same prices with no need to negotiate. I will repeat again though that most of the agents I've dealt with across many of the resale companies both large and small have been very pleasant and easy to deal with. They also didn't all get back to me right away but did within a few days. Do I like that? No I'm the type that when I want to strike a deal I want to do it that day. But I'm also from the Northeast and I know many of the brokers are from the Southeast, mainly Florida where time is a little slower and I have to temper my go-go-go mindset and expectations when dealing with said brokers. Most have also been very willing to take time to just casually talk on the phone which I appreciate.

 

[robinb]

This could be solved by the broker simply setting up an email to copy and paste if the seller has told them their bottom number. Not responding is literally someone not wanting to do their job, but also not surprising.

The commissions these places try to take for doing next to nothing is absurd

Why would the broker tell someone their bottom number?

 

[disneylandtour]

Why would the broker tell someone their bottom number?

I believe this happens somewhat often. Because a broker has received an offer that is just a bit below a seller's minimum acceptable offer. For example, a seller has indicated they'd entertain offers above $85--and a broker has received an offer of $83, which then gets an email: I don't think the seller will take $83 but they may take $85. I've received a few of these emails. It's an effort to get the contract sold on the seller's terms.

 

[Jwaire]

The technology is there. When you rent with DVC Rental Store, they allow you to set a minimum price per point for confirmed reservations.

I doubt it would be that difficult to do that for Resale Market. However, I'm not sure most people listing contracts know all the fine details to make an informed floor price.

I've been on both sides. As a seller, I don't want the annoyance or my time wasted with lowball offers. You look at some of those RIV offers—yikes.

But as a buyer, I also expect you to present offers I consider reasonable too. If you're within 10-15 points of the listing price, it's just a no-brainer to present. You start getting 20-25+ away, it gets tougher.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

The technology is there. When you rent with DVC Rental Store, they allow you to set a minimum price per point for confirmed reservations.

I doubt it would be that difficult to do that for Resale Market. However, I'm not sure most people listing contracts know all the fine details to make an informed floor price.

I've been on both sides. As a seller, I don't want the annoyance or my time wasted with lowball offers. You look at some of those RIV offers—yikes.

But as a buyer, I also expect you to present offers I consider reasonable too. If you're within 10-15 points of the listing price, it's just a no-brainer to present. You start getting 20-25+ away, it gets tougher.

I’ve had brokers reply to me (when I’m 15-25/pt below their price) with something like “seller declines to counter, would you like to raise your offer price?” While it’s not how a marketing psychologist would likely suggest phrasing the email, I don’t consider it rude. To me, it says the seller is very unlikely to move more than half way between their list and my offer and it would be a waste of everybody’s time to keep emailing back and forth. I would usually send a polite “thank you for letting me know, I understand the seller is not motivated at this time, please keep me in mind if circumstances change or you have a more motivated seller—I pay cash and can close as soon as we clear ROFR.” Usually I hear nothing from there, but at least once (and maybe twice) I have had a few other contracts floated—NOT at the exact price I wanted, but I suspect they were willing to entertain offers in/near my zone. If the UYs or point amounts had worked for me, I would have had a better than average shot at a good deal (ahem, a “value deal” as we’re calling them now), and the broker would have closed a sale with very limited additional effort.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I’ve had brokers reply to me (when I’m 15-25/pt below their price) with something like “seller declines to counter, would you like to raise your offer price?” While it’s not how a marketing psychologist would likely suggest phrasing the email, I don’t consider it rude. To me, it says the seller is very unlikely to move more than half way between their list and my offer and it would be a waste of everybody’s time to keep emailing back and forth. I would usually send a polite “thank you for letting me know, I understand the seller is not motivated at this time, please keep me in mind if circumstances change or you have a more motivated seller—I pay cash and can close as soon as we clear ROFR.” Usually I hear nothing from there, but at least once (and maybe twice) I have had a few other contracts floated—NOT at the exact price I wanted, but I suspect they were willing to entertain offers in/near my zone. If the UYs or point amounts had worked for me, I would have had a better than average shot at a good deal (ahem, a “value deal” as we’re calling them now), and the broker would have closed a sale with very limited additional effort.

I think that sounds like a good strategy. Also, I don’t think 15 points below asking price is unreasonable or even a lowball offer. I usually start around there, and every once in a while succeed, but more often than not I have to raise the price if I don’t get a counter. Otherwise, for me, it would take a very very long time to accumulate any sizable number of points, and I just don’t have the patience.

 

[thelionqueen]

Again, I don’t think anyone believes a broker should simply ignore someone and not let you know it’s been received.

Actually this has been supported several times in this thread. That a “value offer” (thank you @TheDailyMoo) should expect no consideration or reply whatsoever and that it’s a waste of the brokers time. How I understand that line of reasoning is that one should expect to be treated like nothing if a broker thinks it’s too low, with which I adamantly disagree. .

 

[Sandisw]

Actually this has been supported several times in this thread. That a “value offer” (thank you @TheDailyMoo) should expect no consideration or reply whatsoever and that it’s a waste of the brokers time. How I understand that line of reasoning is that one should expect to be treated like nothing if a broker thinks it’s too low, with which I adamantly disagree. .

I read that as they don’t have to necessarily give you feedback..not that you shouldn’t at least get a “We received your offer and will be in touch if the owner chooses to accept or counter”.

Beyond that, I just can’t say that brokers need to do more.

Now, some buyers might be put off by that and go elsewhere..which they are free to do.

But, I just can’t agree that if someone is constantly putting in offers that are always well below asking that they shouldn’t be surprised if a broker begins to perceive them as not a serious buyer.