Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

[Sun_soakin]

I think I’m just psychologically primed to pay upcharges, I’m surprised it took DL this long to do it. Or maybe they waited until upgrade fees were pervasive?

Random list of upgrades I pay for where there is a free alternative:

$30 for earlier boarding group on Southwest
$100 for Global Entry/TSA Pre
$8 for the 91 express, or other toll road (241/261/73)
$? For expedited shipping
$5/mo for this Korean drama site to remove the ads
Amazon Prime for same-day delivery
$2 on Uber Eats to be the first house the driver goes to (yep paid that for dinner tonight)
+$20/day to park next to the terminal vs economy lot and taking a shuttle
I’ve probably paid a dollar to skip a level on Candy Crush Saga (lord why did I just admit that)

I think from that viewpoint, the G+/LL program is reasonable and falls in line with the outside world…but I suppose that’s also the problem. RIP berm.

that’s what I always appreciated about Disney, the lack of upcharges. When we go to an all inclusive resort or cruise, we prefer the more upscale places/lines so we don’t get hit w/ that crap. I’d rather pay up front for a more upscale experience. I have a big aversion to these upcharges and never (almost never) opt for them (well, global entry is worth it, but the fee is for screening).

 

[VandVsmama]

People on the WDW board are losing their minds over this. I don’t think it’s all that bad.

 

[brightlined]

People on the WDW board are losing their minds over this. I don’t think it’s all that bad.

It's a little different for them because the FP+ system was always free - they've never had an upcharge system. This doesn't feel like a huge shift from MaxPass (and they're specifically likening it to MaxPass in their promotional videos).

 

[Skyegirl1999]

People on the WDW board are losing their minds over this. I don’t think it’s all that bad.

To be fair, their FP+ was free, AND the big resort “perk” now is getting to book at 7am. So it’s a bigger change for them. WDW had attracted more of the “spreadsheet plan in advance guests” over the years as they skewed more that way, too, you know?

But also I don’t like this, either.

 

[brightlined]

The double bonus is just how badly WDW has been nickel-and-diming their guests in the last few years. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you could get your resort booked, get your passes, book your first FPs, and you were good to go for your trip.

Not long ago, they started charging $25/night for parking at WDW resorts. (They argued that it was the "industry norm".) Room rates stayed the same, so it was a new charge.

WDW's AP prices almost doubled between 2015 and 2019. (The Platinum AP went from like $700 to close to $1200 - and that was before Galaxy's Edge opened.)

Honestly, one of the reasons I started visiting DL more frequently in the last few years (swapping out my WDW AP for a Flex Pass) was because the pricing was simpler and gave me options that were less expensive and just as enjoyable. Even with the changes here, I could easily see myself settling on an Enchant Key pass once my current (and likely final) WDW AP runs out.


To be fair, I also don't like this, mainly because it feels like a slow backslide into Six Flags / Cedar Fair territory, where they sell a cheap admission that gets you into the park, but you have to pay for the $75+ Express Pass to be able to ride more than 3 or 4 rides on an average summer weekday. (Knott's is a little less busy than the other Cedar Fair parks - but at Cedar Point, for example, it's insane how little you can do if you don't buy the Fast Lane.) All they're doing is cramming people into the park for a diminished experience. I know it's not really as bad as that yet, but it feels like a big step in that direction.

I'm honestly hopeful that the other parts of the Genie system work out as advertised. The AI that points you to low wait-time rides (etc) seems like a creatively interesting idea - assuming they have data that's more accurate than the wait time data they're posting now.

 

[Epicnemesis]

I really wouldn’t have an issue with it but for the separate per ride for e ticket attractions. That’s really egregious and over the top. Make it 30 and include those if you want but stop nickel and diming people who have already spent 150-thousands of dollars to be at your parks.
I feel like this scene. “You can milk anything with nipples”

I don’t even mind the lack of free fast pass. I think I’d rather have faster standby lines, but this is udderly ridiculous.

 

[KTownRaider]

I really wouldn’t have an issue with it but for the separate per ride for e ticket attractions.

This ^. I expected to pay an upcharge. I didn't expect to pay an upcharge on top of the upcharge. IMHO, feeling nickeled and dimed is not an improvement in guest experience. Charge me a more expensive, all inclusive genie+ rate once, and let me enjoy my day.

 

[DodgerGirl]

What I think Disneyland is trying to do is turn themselves into a wholesale club and by using inventions such as the Magic Key and now Disney Genie I don't think it's gonna work at all. As you know Disneyland is famous for trying inventions and most of them failed like the Pal Mickey talking plushie and when people see what a failure the Disney Genie will be people will not go to Disneyland at all. I think that certain rides and shows will be exclusive to people who have the Genie app like Pirates Of The Caribbean Jungle Cruise Web Slingers Space Mountain The Enchanted Tiki Room and the parades and certain character meet and greets will be for Disney Genie app holders only. I think this is the way that Disneyland is regaining money since they were closed last year due to Coronavirus and they want to make up for lost money and their audience this year. But I think the Disney Genie and the Magic Key will be Disneyland's weakest links and fail. I mean families want to visit Disneyland not Costco or Sam's Club

 

[BadPinkTink]

I've just woken up and read all 9 pages. I have yet to watch the video. As an international solo visitor I am actually excited and loving this.

I never used Maxpass as there was a free alternative which worked just as well. But now that its all paid, I am fine paying the extra $20 per day.

I am banned by a Presidential Executive Order from entering USA and my last visit was June 2019. I already have park tickets from my cancelled June 2020 trip, so basically on my next visit I will only have to pay an extra $20 per day.

Due to travel and other Covid restrictions in my country, I still have the money I had saved for my cancelled June 2020 visit. My financial situation has actually benefited from Covid, as I have worked all the way through but have had to cancel all travel and my day to day spending has been reduced. Therefore for my next Disneyland trip I am in a far better financial position than on any of my previous trips.

I know that I am a very different type of park visitor than most here on Diss, but I'm sure there are a lot like me, people who due to Covid have huge pent up demand AND are in a better financial position.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

I know that I am a very different type of park visitor than most here on Diss, but I'm sure there are a lot like me, people who due to Covid have huge pent up demand AND are in a better financial position.

Yeah, that describes a lot of people (and Disney knows it). The "K-shaped economic recovery" and all that...

It's not really about the cost. Many of the posts here specifically state that they'd pay more for an inclusive Maxpass service like the one that existed previously. It's about the mentality of a "pay-per-ride" system.

ETA: Also, this rollout is pretty confusing. It's basically, "there's this new free thing called Disney Genie that is going to help us put people where we want them in the parks, and then there's this other thing you pay for that's sort of like Maxpass but not as good and there's no free option anymore, and that's called Genie+, and then there are also some rides where you pay individually per ride, but only 2 a day and we're not telling you how much those cost, but those will feature surge pricing, and that whole part doesn't really have a name because 'Lightning Lane' is also what the Genie+ version is called, and the "Genie+" and "individual Lightning Lane" rides aren't the same but we aren't going to give you an exact list yet. So, yeah, this is great and exactly what everyone asked for! Also it's coming sometime in the fall. So that could be two weeks or maybe Halloween. Enjoy this new cluster of products that are sure to work SUPER seamlessly because our tech is always amazing!"

 

[BadPinkTink]

Yeah, that describes a lot of people (and Disney knows it). The "K-shaped economic recovery" and all that...

It's not really about the cost. Many of the posts here specifically state that they'd pay more for an inclusive Maxpass service like the one that existed previously. It's about the mentality of a "pay-per-ride" system.

I know I am in a very lucky position to be part of the upper section of the "K-shaped economic recovery" I also work in the tech and internet industry where during Covid my job has been to help my clients pivot their business to eCommerce and mobile first, so I am excited to experience all the new tech experiences at Disney.

I guess maybe I have a different outlook as being able to keep up with and adapt to the rapidly changing tech and internet industry is part of my job The changes that Disney is making excite me, as I get to experience what a high end company can do when they have the huge resources that Disney have.

I am not resistant to change, I embrace it. To just get to Disneyland cost me over $2000, thats just flights and hotel, so the pay per ride system is not really a big expense to me.

This new change is the natural ebb and flow of the customer lifecycle.

For every family that has been going to Disneyland for the last 20 to 30 years that is priced out, there will be the new family that starts going to Disneyland.

 

[katyringo]

I’ve been bouncing between the WDW board and this board. Going to WDW in November and planning Disneyland next fall. Never used fastpass plus.. but used maxpass many times.

as a one time a yea or every 2 year guest… I kinda hate to say it.. but I don’t hate this.

we were already paying for maxpass.For rise you still have the virtual que and what I think we will see are free virtual que fother rides. Standby is still an option for let’s say space mountain. And in my mind if it’s worth it to my family we just budget for our 2 upgrades per day.. or maybe we wait until our last day and if there was something we didn’t catch with a low wait/with rope drop/virtual

in October we did WDW with no fastpass and we had some waits that were over an hour and ya know what? We survived.


I think like anything else we will learn to use it and strategize with it. I’m here to give it a try.

And don’t eat me alive but I like that Disney is waiting to add it to magic key/AP’s. I think sometimes the AP crowd at DL who all had maxpass added to their passes decreased the value of maxpass..

 

[BadPinkTink]

I’ve been bouncing between the WDW board and this board. Going to WDW in November and planning Disneyland next fall. Never used fastpass plus.. but used maxpass many times.

as a one time a yea or every 2 year guest… I kinda hate to say it.. but I don’t hate this.

we were already paying for maxpass.For rise you still have the virtual que and what I think we will see are free virtual que fother rides. Standby is still an option for let’s say space mountain. And in my mind if it’s worth it to my family we just budget for our 2 upgrades per day.. or maybe we wait until our last day and if there was something we didn’t catch with a low wait/with rope drop/virtual

in October we did WDW with no fastpass and we had some waits that were over an hour and ya know what? We survived.


I think like anything else we will learn to use it and strategize with it. I’m here to give it a try.

And don’t eat me alive but I like that Disney is waiting to add it to magic key/AP’s. I think sometimes the AP crowd at DL who all had maxpass added to their passes decreased the value of maxpass..

Exactly, those of us who are once or twice a year will just accommodate this into our budget, no big deal.

Having been at the front of helping business survive Covid over the last 18 months, the way to survive is get rid of the fuzzy feel good and just concentrate on making money any way how. Yes I know this will anger many here on the Dis but thats the way it is now.

Disney don't care WHO is in the parks as long as people ARE in the parks.

Disney don't care that your family has been going to the parks for the last 20 to 30 years and now feel slighted that things have changed and its not YOUR Disney parks experience any more.

They will move forward and change things and its up to you whether you stay stuck in the past and resist the change and not go to the parks or whether you embrace the change, and enjoy the new Disney Parks exereince.

I'm sure if you go back through the years on Dis, you will find the same types of discussions when Maxpass started, when Galaxys Edge was announced, when Carsland was announced, when Disney changed to making restaurant reservations through the website and App, when the dining packages with the exclusive viewing areas for Fantasmic and World of Colour were first announced.

Its all a cycle. People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks, Disney as a company move forward with technology and new ideas, people complain and say they are done with Disney, the new changes become normal and accepted, and the cycle starts again, >>>>People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks........

 

[dieumeye]

Its all a cycle. People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks, Disney as a company move forward with technology and new ideas, people complain and say they are done with Disney, the new changes become normal and accepted, and the cycle starts again, >>>>People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks........

I agree. Especially with things like mobile order. I think mobile order is great (as long as the system is working correctly) so I don’t see why so many people act like it’s a huge negative burden to use the app to order food.

But there is a bit of difference with G+. In this case Disney is taking away something free and now charging for it, so I see why people are upset.

I’m fine with G+ (although I’m in the camp that wishes they charged MORE for it and included all LL lines, instead of only some rides with others being another additional charge).

Adding a new feature or process is great. Adding a new feature or process and charging for it is fine too. Taking something that used to be free and charging for it just seems exploitative, especially when the new paid version doesn’t even include everything the old free version had. “Charge more for less” is a common criticism of Disney that I don’t always agree is happening, but that’s what this looks like.

What if they started charging for mobile order? Stand in a 40 minute line to order… unless you pay $20 to order now. I’d pay it, but I’d understand if people were upset.

Having said that, I do think that eliminating the free FP could actually improve the experience over the old system — less people using FP/LL lines also means relatively shorter standby lines.

Of course, the only people benefiting from the LL lines now are the people willing to pay. $20 to a solo visitor (like me, often) doesn’t seem bad. $40 for a couple? Ok. But for a family of 4, now we’re up to $80, or $100 if grandma comes along. That’s adding up for something that used to be free.

It’s not that people are just mad because the system changed. It’s no longer a system anyone can use after already paying to enter the park, so I can see why people are upset.

 

[sjmac42]

TBH I’m a bit surprised at some of the reactions. I get that there’s no longer a free option but it could have been much more expensive with many predicting $15 to $25 per FastPass a la DLP (I wasn’t one of them). Now we see it’s $20 for all our genie passes? except for a limited number of attractions considered in demand like RSR, MFSR. Maybe a couple of others on busier days like TSMM, Space Mountain? For these you can choose to standby or pay a fee to ride quickly. Who knows, a limited number of these lightning lane paid passes may mean standby moves quicker. Even if it doesn’t, it shouldn’t ruin a trip just because you miss out on a couple of rides you could probably rope drop anyway. Remember Universal charges from about $70 to $250 for Express passes.

Assuming a Lightning Lane pass doesn’t cost $50, predictions ranging between $100 and $200 on these boards have been proved unfounded so isn’t that a good thing?

 

[Rich M]

Since reading about it and reading people’s opinions while in lines yesterday at the parks my reflection is that maybe the allowing of only two lighting attractions and not letting the major attractions have the ability for the genie that it might actually help those lines not be 2 hours.

I know we are at limited capacity now but for example during my two day visit RS has not been over 45 mins and only took like 25 to 30 mins. If your only allowed 2 then you really have to think about it and also see how long the stand by line is. I mean I could easily see Disney manipulate the standby time so people pay for the lighting but I still don’t see tons of people doing it all the time. Maybe once a visit?

I decided though I won’t buy a Magic Key for a bit and see how this effects everything. If it looks like you need it and have to pay the additional to enjoy your trip I will pay it but I will cut other costs from my day like disney dining and souvenirs or even cut a day all together

 

[StormyCA]

All I know is that if this pprLL (pay per ride LL) is subject to 'surge pricing' I'm going to be really cheesed if I pay $20 to ride something on Monday, then 2 days later it's only $10.

I can only see myself using pprLL on something I've never ridden before. We had park ressies for 2 days for DHS, that's FOUR chances for RotR. Never got a boarding pass. So would I have paid $20 to ride after I didn't get it the 4th time? Yes, because I've never been on it. But would I have paid $20 if I'd ridden it before. No. Would I have paid $20 if there was a standby line? I guess it would depend on the wait time. 2 hours maybe not. 6 hours yes.

 

[Drewski77]

Exactly, those of us who are once or twice a year will just accommodate this into our budget, no big deal.

Having been at the front of helping business survive Covid over the last 18 months, the way to survive is get rid of the fuzzy feel good and just concentrate on making money any way how. Yes I know this will anger many here on the Dis but thats the way it is now.

Disney don't care WHO is in the parks as long as people ARE in the parks.

Disney don't care that your family has been going to the parks for the last 20 to 30 years and now feel slighted that things have changed and its not YOUR Disney parks experience any more.

They will move forward and change things and its up to you whether you stay stuck in the past and resist the change and not go to the parks or whether you embrace the change, and enjoy the new Disney Parks exereince.

I'm sure if you go back through the years on Dis, you will find the same types of discussions when Maxpass started, when Galaxys Edge was announced, when Carsland was announced, when Disney changed to making restaurant reservations through the website and App, when the dining packages with the exclusive viewing areas for Fantasmic and World of Colour were first announced.

Its all a cycle. People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks, Disney as a company move forward with technology and new ideas, people complain and say they are done with Disney, the new changes become normal and accepted, and the cycle starts again, >>>>People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks........

So any change a company makes is good by definition?

Perhaps these changes will make for an improved experience, but to outright dismiss the reactions of those who have been going to the parks for 20-30+ years seems shortsighted.

And it’s the very long-term loyal customer base that has enabled Disney to be the huge company it is today, and if this doesn’t go well Disney will change course.

And as far as change from huge companies always being good:

“New Coke,” “Crystal Pepsi,” the Nintendo “Virtual Boy” might have a different opinion.

 

[By-Tor and Snow Pup]

As far as the value of Genie+, I think it comes down to how many times you are able to get LL during a day. If you can only acquire 2 or 3 LL I think the value is really low, if you are able to ride rides til you drop then it would be a good value.

I also worry about the impact of the regular Genie service. At Disneyland, even on crowded days you could find little pockets where attendance was light/reasonable. I think the Genie service will move the crowds all throughout the park, so on crowded days there may be zero pockets of low density.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

Yeah, that describes a lot of people (and Disney knows it). The "K-shaped economic recovery" and all that...

It's not really about the cost. Many of the posts here specifically state that they'd pay more for an inclusive Maxpass service like the one that existed previously. It's about the mentality of a "pay-per-ride" system.

ETA: Also, this rollout is pretty confusing. It's basically, "there's this new free thing called Disney Genie that is going to help us put people where we want them in the parks, and then there's this other thing you pay for that's sort of like Maxpass but not as good and there's no free option anymore, and that's called Genie+, and then there are also some rides where you pay individually per ride, but only 2 a day and we're not telling you how much those cost, but those will feature surge pricing, and that whole part doesn't really have a name because 'Lightning Lane' is also what the Genie+ version is called, and the "Genie+" and "individual Lightning Lane" rides aren't the same but we aren't going to give you an exact list yet. So, yeah, this is great and exactly what everyone asked for! Also it's coming sometime in the fall. So that could be two weeks or maybe Halloween. Enjoy this new cluster of products that are sure to work SUPER seamlessly because our tech is always amazing!"

Nailed it!