Grand Floridian Update

[Dean]

Still not finding any change that was greater than 20% for any given night in any one year. The SSR 2010-2011 changes combined for the two years were significantly more than 20% down for the weekend and up for the weekday, the same as the other resorts, but I am not seeing any change for any night that was greater than 20% in any one year. The highest percentage change I see anywhere is a change for SSR studios in choice season for weekends which went from 20 in 2010 to 16 in 2011 which is exactly a 20% change. Thus, to me it looks like even DVD thought the 20% limit applied to points for studios and 1BRs even if part of a lock-off.

I wonder if I'm confusing the 20% per year rule with the requirement for the points to balance for the year.

 

[drusba]

I wonder if I'm confusing the 20% per year rule with the requirement for the points to balance for the year.

I remember when people were trying to do that and I don't think anyone could get it to come out exactly. It was an interesting but seemingly impossible task trying to figure out what it would be based on base year with the right number of weekend nights and how to allocate 2BR lock-offs during the year between points for use as a 2BR and points for use as 1BR and studio. The numbers members were able to generate on these boards convinced me that it was close enough that it was likely not an issue. What concerned many is that some categories of rooms, such as 2BR savanna at AKV, actually went up a little per week year round, making many wonder where the decrease was to offset the increase, but DVD seems to be permitted to shift points among room categories, which it did in spades when it raised the THVs at SSR.

 

[drusba]

Double post

 

[wdrl]

I remember when people were trying to do that and I don't think anyone could get it to come out exactly. It was an interesting but seemingly impossible task trying to figure out what it would be based on base year with the right number of weekend nights and how to allocate 2BR lock-offs during the year between points for use as a 2BR and points for use as 1BR and studio. The numbers members were able to generate on these boards convinced me that it was close enough that it was likely not an issue. What concerned many is that some categories of rooms, such as 2BR savanna at AKV, actually went up a little per week year round, making many wonder where the decrease was to offset the increase, but DVD seems to be permitted to shift points among room categories, which it did in spades when it raised the THVs at SSR.

I looked through some of my old notes on the reallocation that was done in 2011. I compared 2010 to 2011 for BLT, BWV, and VWL and found the reallocation was essentially point neutral for those three resorts. Point totals decreased 0.1096% at BLT, 0.1321% at BWV, and 0.1293 for VWL in 2011 compared to the prior year.

I've never taken a close look at AKV because I've never seen a verifiable count of vacation homes by view category. In 2011, AKV savanna views increased, resulting in what appeared to be a increase in the overall cost of AKV. However, DVC reclassified an unknown number of vacation homes from savanna view to standard view, which would explain why the remaining savanna views would increase in cost.

 

[cwdefouw]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this or not. The villas that are directly over the entrance on the 2nd and 3rd floors (2/3 of the villas in Units 2D and 3D) are going to have absolutely horrible views of the back of the roof on the Port Cochere. The second floor will be the worst. I don't see how these villas will be able to be classifed the same as the others. Take a look at the elevations of the front of the building to see what I am talking about. The Port Cochere is going to stand out away from the building somewhat which will help the situation a little, but it is a good bet that almost anyone who gets assigned to those villas will complain about the almost total lack of staight-out view, unless they get a break on the points, ie standard view.

 

[disneynutz]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this or not. The villas that are directly over the entrance on the 2nd and 3rd floors (2/3 of the villas in Units 2D and 3D) are going to have absolutely horrible views of the back of the roof on the Port Cochere. The second floor will be the worst. I don't see how these villas will be able to be classifed the same as the others. Take a look at the elevations of the front of the building to see what I am talking about. The Port Cochere is going to stand out away from the building somewhat which will help the situation a little, but it is a good bet that almost anyone who gets assigned to those villas will complain about the almost total lack of staight-out view, unless they get a break on the points, ie standard view.

I posted right after the foundation was poured that based on the location and shape of the building didn't seem like there would be breathtaking views.

All we can do is wait and see. If Disney follows their other new construction projects, they will wait and see what rooms get the view complaints and then do different categories and/or reallocate the point charts.

Bill

 

[lilpooh108]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this or not. The villas that are directly over the entrance on the 2nd and 3rd floors (2/3 of the villas in Units 2D and 3D) are going to have absolutely horrible views of the back of the roof on the Port Cochere. The second floor will be the worst. I don't see how these villas will be able to be classifed the same as the others. Take a look at the elevations of the front of the building to see what I am talking about. The Port Cochere is going to stand out away from the building somewhat which will help the situation a little, but it is a good bet that almost anyone who gets assigned to those villas will complain about the almost total lack of staight-out view, unless they get a break on the points, ie standard view.

I did notice that...and that will be one noisy set of rooms. I love GF for the ambiance. If I got a room with *that* ambiance, I'd rather be somewhere else. Lake view it is for me...

 

[DenLo]

I agree that the views will be blocked on the front of the building. But there might not be much of a view there anyway since it basically faces the spa building and the monorail.

I just noticed this weekend that where the covered walkway enters the building, villas 1113 and 1125 the master bedrooms will have a completely blocked view and it might even affect their living rooms. It is also possible that the roof of the covered walkway could affect the same numbered villas on the second floor (1213 and 1225). It's possible some of the other villas will be affected as well.

 

[bigAWL]

I agree that the views will be blocked on the front of the building. But there might not be much of a view there anyway since it basically faces the spa building and the monorail.

I just noticed this weekend that where the covered walkway enters the building, villas 1113 and 1125 the master bedrooms will have a completely blocked view and it might even affect their living rooms. It is also possible that the roof of the covered walkway could affect the same numbered villas on the second floor (1213 and 1225). It's possible some of the other villas will be affected as well.

Interesting. They did seem to put those villas very close to the entryway. BCV has a similar entryway into the corner of the resort. But they buffered the villas on either side with other facilities. Take a look at this photo...

The non-descript door directly behind Ariel seems to be a utility room of some sort. Then the next set of windows to the left is for the patio of a 2BR dedicated villa. On the other side of the entrance there is a common room. The first villa on that side is not visible in this photo. There is only one villa on that side (another 2BR dedicated) and the covered walkway passes directly in front of its patio, with a lattice screen separating the two. You can partiallly see that screen in the photo.

From the drawings of VGF, it would appear that the entrance is not at a 45 degree angle like this one. Instead the doors would enter about where that blank white door is (ok, it would be on the other side... but I think it's easier to imagine with this photo if you flip your perspective). The the first villa would be exactly where this one is on the left (except it's really on the right: villa 1125), but on the other side that common room would be a villa (1113) with its patio (if there is one) opening directly into the entry way. Maybe they'll screen it off like they did to the one here.

On the other hand, if they build the covered walk and entryway similar to this one, then I don't think the second floor villas will have that much of a problem.

 

[DenLo]

A walkway like BCV's wouldn't be so bad. I was visualizing the steep roofs that GF has for a roof line. A walkway like in bigAWL's photo would allow some light into rooms nearby. Not that I would want to stay in one of those rooms though, not enough privacy.

 

[LPnerd]

Only true for the first phase of OKW. Building numbers 30 and above at OKW have a second entrance to the bathroom through the laundry.

to go along with this room size thought, I am not a fan of 3 bathrooms like BT... if you are 8-9 people even 6 people is pushing it in the living areas, would have preferred more room and seating for family dinner, and TV.TOO crowded . we like dedicated 2 bBR at OKW and BW . There is also plenty of room at SSV but we hate it there. Noting to do after park hours and unless you're right on top of the main pool, its so far to EVERYTHING!
same for OKW but there are enough close to the main pool that if you ask, you can usually get it.
will not stay at GF unless I have to, but POLY?????? hmmmm, that could be good!

 

[luckyman_apd]

to go along with this room size thought, I am not a fan of 3 bathrooms like BT

I completely disagree. I love the extra bathroom at BLT. We have had times where we were in a rush in the morning to get out, and not only the extra toilet, but the extra shower....the ability for 3 adults to take a shower at one time really speeds things up in the morning. We really felt the strain just recently at an OKW studio. It seemed that both my children needed the bathroom at EXACTLY the same time. My daughter was hysterical at one point because my son was in the bathroom when she needed it. She even expressed how disappointed she was we ONLY had 1 bathroom

Apparently we have spoiled her with our last 3 WDW trips in 2 br. one trip each with the the grandparents on both sides, and one trip with friends. This studio was just not up to her standards.....at age 7!

 

[tjkraz]

On the bathroom issue, I keep going back to the idea that it's not a "tipping point" for most buyers.

DVC did let the proverbial genie out of the bottle by putting the extra bath in BLT, Kidani and Grand Californian. And I can certainly understand why that contributes to guests preferring those resorts over many others.

But if a buyer likes everything else about the Grand Floridian (location, decor, etc.), is the lack of an extra bathroom going to be enough to prompt them to NOT buy points there?

I know it wouldn't matter much to me. I don't think I've ever read or heard comments along the lines of "I really like the Beach Club Villas (or BWV, or VWL) but I will never buy there because the 1B villa only has one bathroom."

I just don't see that extra bath being a deal-breaker for many. The extra bath is a nice convenience when present, but living without it for a few days on vacation is still very manageable.

 

[Shellandscott]

On the bathroom issue, I keep going back to the idea that it's not a "tipping point" for most buyers.

DVC did let the proverbial genie out of the bottle by putting the extra bath in BLT, Kidani and Grand Californian. And I can certainly understand why that contributes to guests preferring those resorts over many others.

But if a buyer likes everything else about the Grand Floridian (location, decor, etc.), is the lack of an extra bathroom going to be enough to prompt them to NOT buy points there?

I know it wouldn't matter much to me. I don't think I've ever read or heard comments along the lines of "I really like the Beach Club Villas (or BWV, or VWL) but I will never buy there because the 1B villa only has one bathroom."

I just don't see that extra bath being a deal-breaker for many. The extra bath is a nice convenience when present, but living without it for a few days on vacation is still very manageable.

It is just DH and I so we are looking at buying GFV if possible. However, once you add a third person staying at GFV will not be likely, the bath is a dealbreaker, as DH does not want to share a bath with anyone but me.

Maybe this was a way of keeping demand down

 

[Brian Noble]

if you are 8-9 people even 6 people is pushing it in the living areas, would have preferred more room and seating for family dinner, and TV.TOO crowded .

This is true of all the 2nd Gen DVC resorts as well---SSR, BWV, VWL, and BWV. Four is comfortable. Six would be tight. I can't imagine 8. Partly it's just that the units are small. But, I think they could have also moved a little space from the 2nd BR to the LR in the dedicated 2BR units.

 

[DenLo]

. . . . . But, I think they could have also moved a little space from the 2nd BR to the LR in the dedicated 2BR units.

I always wonder why they couldn't have added some of that space to the 2nd bedroom/studios. I realize DVC wants the MBR to look luxurious, but for hotel, it just doesn't make sense that a room with only a king size bed in it is larger than a room with two queen beds.

 

[tjkraz]

It is just DH and I so we are looking at buying GFV if possible. However, once you add a third person staying at GFV will not be likely, the bath is a dealbreaker, as DH does not want to share a bath with anyone but me.

I guess it depends upon the identity of that third person.

By and large, One Bedroom Villas are single-family dwellings. Parents occupy the master bedroom and children sleep in the living room. In that scenario, I don't think many families are opposed to sharing a bathroom. It can be challenging with older kids who need more prep time, but DVC existed for nearly 20 years before the first two bath 2Bs appeared. It's a few days on vacation--it's really not that great of a hardship.

There are instances of adult couples sharing a 1B but they are in the minority. And I don't know how many people would buy points with the intent of regularly sharing a 1B villa with adult friends / family members. That's not really the target market for such a room.

In a Studio, it's a moot point since they all have just one bathroom.

 

[csharpwv]

I'm not totally 'up' on how many baths that Grand Villas have at each of the resorts, but we stayed at a Grand Villas at HHI and BLT in the last year.

They have 4 bathrooms - and even when you don't have those units stuffed to capacity - the 4th bathrooms is very convenient.

We stayed in a 1BR at HHI over New Years with 4 adults and a toddler - we REALLY could have used an extra bath... even a 1/2 bath would have been greatly appreciated.

I really don't know why they would have taken a step back and removed that extra convenience.

It seems like once they added the feature they wouldn't then remove it....especially from the villas at the flagship deluxe resort at the Walt Disney World Resort.

So much for consistency!

When considering where to stay, and the features that we find most convenient - you better believe the extra bath will go in to deciding where to stay!

We own at two resorts with the additional bath already though.... and my DW would likely kill me if I suggested buying more points! HAHA

 

[ITGirl50]

On the bathroom issue, I keep going back to the idea that it's not a "tipping point" for most buyers.

DVC did let the proverbial genie out of the bottle by putting the extra bath in BLT, Kidani and Grand Californian. And I can certainly understand why that contributes to guests preferring those resorts over many others.

But if a buyer likes everything else about the Grand Floridian (location, decor, etc.), is the lack of an extra bathroom going to be enough to prompt them to NOT buy points there?

I know it wouldn't matter much to me. I don't think I've ever read or heard comments along the lines of "I really like the Beach Club Villas (or BWV, or VWL) but I will never buy there because the 1B villa only has one bathroom."

I just don't see that extra bath being a deal-breaker for many. The extra bath is a nice convenience when present, but living without it for a few days on vacation is still very manageable.

I guess if none of the resorts offered it, we wouldn't know what we were missing. Both of my home resorts have the extra bath and I have a really hard time booking (or adding on) anywhere else because of that extra bath. For DH and I it's fine, but when we add our DD (and maybe a friend), I don't want to give up the extra bath.

 

[Shellandscott]

I guess it depends upon the identity of that third person.

By and large, One Bedroom Villas are single-family dwellings. Parents occupy the master bedroom and children sleep in the living room. In that scenario, I don't think many families are opposed to sharing a bathroom. It can be challenging with older kids who need more prep time, but DVC existed for nearly 20 years before the first two bath 2Bs appeared. It's a few days on vacation--it's really not that great of a hardship.

There are instances of adult couples sharing a 1B but they are in the minority. And I don't know how many people would buy points with the intent of regularly sharing a 1B villa with adult friends / family members. That's not really the target market for such a room.

In a Studio, it's a moot point since they all have just one bathroom.

It could be his niece (10) or my niece (12). Or either one of our mom's. When we had both girls we rented a 2 bedroom as he did not want to share a bath. Lots of points for 4 people.

If it were another couple we would either do 2 studios or a 2 bedroom.