Has Disney’s Strategies To It’s Loyal Customers Finally Caught Up With It?

[New Mouse]

I thought there was one new park being worked on, what are the tree you are referring to?

There's room and a logical assumption that there will be a second park built by epic universe. I also believe there was land for an additional water park as well.

 

[HopperFan]

If Disney execs are smart, they're waking up every single morning and trying to think of ways they can stop the inevitable bleeding once Universal opens their THREE new parks.

I don't have a crystal ball but I've seen the youtube videos about the new Universal properties; Disney needs to step up their game or they're going to lose MAJOR marketshare soon.

I thought there was one new park being worked on, what are the tree you are referring to?

Only one park that would have any impact on Disney, and that is Epic Universe in Orlando.

The Texas park is very small being built for YOUNG children families and will impact no one at all.

The one in Vegas isn't really a theme park in normal terms. It is described as year round Halloween Horror Nights. Great fit for Vegas visitors. Again no impact on Disney, only pull some of the Vegas tourist money.

This is useful if you want to spend a lot of time at Universal, but as of right now it’s still a 1-2 day park for me. That obviously changes when EU opens but I’m guessing that price increases will eventually follow.

Agree. It is a 2 day park for us but we certainly could add a third day to make sure we covered everything well if we wanted.

We manage 2 weeks between the 3 parks enjoy resort pool days etc. will go to park in the morning do a few things, have lunch and enjoy afternoon at pool. Also do some excursions to the outlet malls!

When we went one year for 3 days I found it impossible to do everything I wanted and was exhausted. Everyone tours differently. I’m not a park open to close person.

I imagine you are rare that you can focus 2 weeks on Universal, only adding some shopping.

There are plenty of folks who stay that long but hit Disney, Universal, SeaWorld, smaller attractions and local shopping & dining. But they wouldn't say they are visiting Universal more than a few days unless they hit one of those buy 2 get 2 days tickets.

After just spending three days at both Universal parks for the first time in June, while staying at Royal Pacific, we didn't find a real comparison between Disney and Universal. While I don't like how Disney is managing things right now, Universal wasn't better for our family. Are the good things and some great things at Universal? Absolutely. For us though, we skipped 1/2 of Universal Studios for lack of interest and probably 1/3 of Islands of Adventure. There just isn't as much broad appeal at Universal for us like at Disney.

I always say like they are theme parks they are also like FRUIT. Apples and Oranges. Disney is the apple, the milder taste, good for all ages, provides lots of table service dining, lots of shopping and more options in lots of areas. Universal is the orange, a bite, acidic, more teen & adult, more thrill rides, fewer things for young children, parks have virtually no table service and minimal shops. You are there for the rides, while their theming has gotten better over the years (Harry Potter was game changer) it's a different animal.

We have fun at both, on big trips we do 2 days at Universal and 4-5 days at Disney. Disney Springs is a wonderful entertainment district, again lots for everyone. I can't walk fast enough to get through CityWalk, I want to spend no time there.

We enjoy both but absolutely don't compare our experiences there.

For this trip- food, shopping, resorts, everything was better at Disney for our three days there. Now, it's quite likely our next Orlando trip will be back to Universal once Epic Universe opens. Highly unlikely we'll be back to Disney parks before 2025. However, we also didn't like Universal so much that we can't wait to go back. Once they have something new, sure, but that's it. Our Disney vacations always have left us wanting to return again someday. This time was no different, even though we skipped Disney parks. We had a lot of fun at Universal, but not to the point where we see it becoming something we would do many times in the future.

Agreed. We have cancelled all our UO APs and will wait to see what they offer once Epic opens. We tend to have UO AP for a couple years, then off a couple years. If we were local it be different. I see it as a great hang out place. My gut says the price will really jump up there closer to the Sorcerer at Disney unless they incorporate some block out dates at Epic. I don't think the park will handle the crush so the ticket price will have to help with that.

 

[Sue M]

@HopperFan lol! I guess so. I also spend 2 weeks at WDW. We have local friends that come to say hi and take us off property for dinner, sometimes we Uber somewhere. Thinking of this time going to Disney Springs for dinner and walkabout. We enjoy resort days….
Some people think AK is a half day park!
We enjoy a leisurely vacay, get up and decide what we want to do. No regiment - park reservations etc.

 

[Sue M]

Disagreed! How can a Universal Moderate be on the same par as a WDW Deluxe when 2/3 of their Premiers aren't?

Have you been to Sapphire Falls? It’s way above a wdw moderate. We will agree to disagree. I enjoy the Universal Deluxe resorts.

 

[Sue M]

I would love to get Cabana Bay for that price. When I stayed there it was $310 a night for a standard room and that was with a discount. I did get Aventura once for $170 and that hotel is way better than any WDW value resort amenities wise.

You must be going in high season!

 

[Brianstl]

Maybe Disney has been listening to their loyal customers. Perhaps they discover that the number of guests willing to pay more for a better experience exceeds the rest. Given that scenario, it would be more beneficial to them to service less visitors while making similar profit.

I don’t mind spending more for a better experience. The problem is the prices have gone up but the experience has gone down. We have used to go at least once a year a week at a time, deluxe resorts, dining plans pre COVID, would do after hour events, park hoppers, stayed in the bubble the whole time. If Disney was offering something to make the trip more relaxing at a cost, we were buying it. It was “worth it” for us because it was a great trip and relatively stress free during the trip. It was stressful before the trip. You had to make sure you got the right reservations and FPs, but not during the trip for us.

Now Disney has forced you to transfer that stress to your vacation time with things like Genie+ and Fastlanes. They have took away perks like DME that made you feel like you were getting your money’s worth (even though you weren’t) from paying so much more to stay on site. Park maintenance just goes further down hill.

I would have no problem with the prices that they are now charging if the experience was similar to 5 or 6 years ago. It just isn’t even close right now.

Two years ago we almost bought DVC. I thank God we didn’t do that.

 

[Minnie1222]

Have you been to Sapphire Falls? It’s way above a wdw moderate. We will agree to disagree. I enjoy the Universal Deluxe resorts.

The disagreement was with you placing Sapphire Falls on the same level with a Disney Deluxe, not a Moderate.

 

[Sue M]

The disagreement was with you placing Sapphire Falls on the same level with a Disney Deluxe, not a Moderate.

Well it’s pretty close with their amenities. Beautiful lobby, Rum bar, restaurant, great pool and servers coming around, indoor halls, and boat transportation that isn’t shared! But rooms are a little plainer than wdw deluxe. Everything else is pretty on par. And miles above WDW moderates.

 

[Kestryl]

I’m on some Universal FaceBook groups (I had an AP for a year back in 2021) and there is a decent number of people complaining about price hikes to tickets and hotels and customer service not giving them three extra months on their renewed AP despite only rendering a week before the 15 month promotion…

Anyway, the point is that this conversation about pushing away loyal customers is also happening in Universal groups.

 

[DodgerGirl]

I only visited Universal Studios Hollywood once while on my first Disneyland trip in 1991 and I thought it was great but my parents and I only rode two rides and I met Woody Woodpecker and Charlie Chaplin even gave me a violet in my hair but those were the only good things about Universal Studios but when we tried to get on more rides they told us they were closed and my parents were so disappointed that we tried to get our money back and we ended up with tickets to a sitcom taping and a Miami Vice show where we sat next to Don Johnson. Now I see why Universal is so eager to get visitors and I think Walt Disney World tries their best to follow in Universal's lead. Because when you get the general picture Walt Disney World I think wants to attract the older kids and teenagers because when you have amusement parks to appeal to everyone the older kids and teens crowd always like the thrill rides and roller-coasters and the younger kids like bumper cars and the ferris wheels. And since Walt Disney World has something for everyone they have tried to attract their audience. But if they lowered their prices it would help them a lot because now people view these trips like a family Christmas gift that can be taken once in a lifetime. The other thing I think Walt Disney World should improve on is their food prices and lowering the prices for character breakfasts. Because I cannot imagine paying big bucks for a character breakfast just to have kids meet Mckey Mouse and other characters and if I had a family I would not pay big bucks for a churro or a corn dog or hot dog. Because I think this is also the biggest problem of Walt Disney World because if you have a family who wants to eat ice cream or snack on popcorn while watching a parade I just don't see paying high prices for popcorn or ice cream. If Disney Parks improved on these things it would work

 

[jsergent]

Well it’s pretty close with their amenities. Beautiful lobby, Rum bar, restaurant, great pool and servers coming around, indoor halls, and boat transportation that isn’t shared! But rooms are a little plainer than wdw deluxe. Everything else is pretty on par. And miles above WDW moderates.

Sapphire Falls seems very nice. We almost stayed there this time, but the extra cost for Royal Pacific to get the Express Pass won out. We paid way more for our room at Royal Pacific than it was worth, but the included Unlimited Express Pass provided the value.

Which, getting back to the point of the OP, is another thing that annoys me about Disney right now too. You get almost nothing as a perk for staying at a deluxe resort. Extended hours is meaningless to my family. We don't want to stay up later or get up earlier just to enjoy a "perk". Include the ILLs or something throughout the day for the deluxe resorts that people can assign a $ amount to and feel like they are getting some extra value for spending more money for these rooms.

 

[Minnie1222]

I don’t mind spending more for a better experience. The problem is the prices have gone up but the experience has gone down. We have used to go at least once a year a week at a time, deluxe resorts, dining plans pre COVID, would do after hour events, park hoppers, stayed in the bubble the whole time. If Disney was offering something to make the trip more relaxing at a cost, we were buying it. It was “worth it” for us because it was a great trip and relatively stress free during the trip. It was stressful before the trip. You had to make sure you got the right reservations and FPs, but not during the trip for us.

Now Disney has forced you to transfer that stress to your vacation time with things like Genie+ and Fastlanes. They have took away perks like DME that made you feel like you were getting your money’s worth (even though you weren’t) from paying so much more to stay on site. Park maintenance just goes further down hill.

I think the current system works better for me because I'm not a heavy planner. I prefer to book Disney trips only a few weeks in advance and with the old FP system I was missing out on some good rides. G+ and iLL put us on the same starting level as everyone else, and give us the ability to go on all our favorite rides in a shorter amount of time.

We rarely used DME so we don't miss it as much. We stay on site to be closer to the parks.

With the exception of early 2021, I don't think park maintenance is down. It's on the same level as pre-covid.

 

[Minnie1222]

Which, getting back to the point of the OP, is another thing that annoys me about Disney right now too. You get almost nothing as a perk for staying at a deluxe resort. Extended hours is meaningless to my family. We don't want to stay up later or get up earlier just to enjoy a "perk". Include the ILLs or something throughout the day for the deluxe resorts that people can assign a $ amount to and feel like they are getting some extra value for spending more money for these rooms.

The "perk" we see is the location and a nicer hotel.

 

[jsergent]

The "perk" we see is the location and a nicer hotel.

You are right. Location always has a price.

 

[Smugpugmug]

You must be going in high season!

That was last month. I have another trip booked at Cabana Bay and this time it was $240 for the same room. For the same weekend, Hard Rock was $700/night before discounts which is nuts.

 

[RivShore]

There is most certainly a shift in travel happening that is probably effecting the parks more than anything else:

May tourist tax dollars down month over month, year over year in Orange County​

Brandon Hogan

Some changes relate to dropping convention center attendance, comptroller says​

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County’s Tourist Development Tax (TDT) collections in May showed decreases from the prior month and year, according to Comptroller Phil Diamond.
The county brought in $26,216,500 for May 2023, lower than in April by $7.4 million and down 6.7% compared to May 2022, but still $9.3 million higher than collections in May 2021. The latest TDT collections also marked the first time since February 2021 that two consecutive months showed year-over-year decreases.
The average daily rate at hotels in the Orlando Metro was $186 in May, down from $221 in April, and the metro’s hotel occupancy rate at large fell 2.5% year over year, now down to 69.3%. Diamond related these figures to dropping attendance at the Orange County Convention Center, despite a rise in the number of events scheduled there and in citywide attendance.
“This was the first month since February 2021 that the convention hotel segment saw a decline in demand. While the number of events at the Orange County Convention Center in May increased year over year, the groups were smaller, meaning less overall attendance. For the year overall through May, citywide attendance is up 24% and is forecasted to be strong through the end of the year,” Diamond said in a statement.
TDT reserves increased by $14.4 million in May to $335,946,674 total, according to the release.
Diamond told News 6 that the county needs to watch that money closely, given the number of projects pitched to the Orange County Tourist Development Tax Task Force.
“We’re coming off a season of 14 record-setting months and you just can’t keep that up forever,” Diamond said. “There’s a TDT task force looking at priorities and how to spend money in the future (...) that might mean that you can’t do projects simultaneously, maybe you have to do them in sequence to make sure the funding is there, maybe you need to make sure there’s more cash on hand before you start those.”
Some projects already recommended by the task force include $800 million for the installation of a roof at Camping World Stadium, $176.6 million to build a sports village at UCF and $975 million for the construction of a baseball stadium for the Orlando Dreamers.
According to the comptroller’s website, the TDT is a 6% tax paid by guests renting or leasing living quarters or other accommodations in Orange County for six months or less. What the money is spent on is limited by state statute to such expenditures as the acquisition and operation of sports stadiums and museums, tourism advertising and the payment of debt services on construction-related bonds.

 

[Anchored]

There is most certainly a shift in travel happening that is probably effecting the parks more than anything else:

May tourist tax dollars down month over month, year over year in Orange County​

Brandon Hogan

Some changes relate to dropping convention center attendance, comptroller says​

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County’s Tourist Development Tax (TDT) collections in May showed decreases from the prior month and year, according to Comptroller Phil Diamond.
The county brought in $26,216,500 for May 2023, lower than in April by $7.4 million and down 6.7% compared to May 2022, but still $9.3 million higher than collections in May 2021. The latest TDT collections also marked the first time since February 2021 that two consecutive months showed year-over-year decreases.
The average daily rate at hotels in the Orlando Metro was $186 in May, down from $221 in April, and the metro’s hotel occupancy rate at large fell 2.5% year over year, now down to 69.3%. Diamond related these figures to dropping attendance at the Orange County Convention Center, despite a rise in the number of events scheduled there and in citywide attendance.
“This was the first month since February 2021 that the convention hotel segment saw a decline in demand. While the number of events at the Orange County Convention Center in May increased year over year, the groups were smaller, meaning less overall attendance. For the year overall through May, citywide attendance is up 24% and is forecasted to be strong through the end of the year,” Diamond said in a statement.
TDT reserves increased by $14.4 million in May to $335,946,674 total, according to the release.
Diamond told News 6 that the county needs to watch that money closely, given the number of projects pitched to the Orange County Tourist Development Tax Task Force.
“We’re coming off a season of 14 record-setting months and you just can’t keep that up forever,” Diamond said. “There’s a TDT task force looking at priorities and how to spend money in the future (...) that might mean that you can’t do projects simultaneously, maybe you have to do them in sequence to make sure the funding is there, maybe you need to make sure there’s more cash on hand before you start those.”
Some projects already recommended by the task force include $800 million for the installation of a roof at Camping World Stadium, $176.6 million to build a sports village at UCF and $975 million for the construction of a baseball stadium for the Orlando Dreamers.
According to the comptroller’s website, the TDT is a 6% tax paid by guests renting or leasing living quarters or other accommodations in Orange County for six months or less. What the money is spent on is limited by state statute to such expenditures as the acquisition and operation of sports stadiums and museums, tourism advertising and the payment of debt services on construction-related bonds.

Wondering if it has something to do with the travel warnings issued by the NAACP and Equality Florida. Or people otherwise not wanting to travel to FL because of ethical concerns with the current political climate. I do know several friends who wanted to come this summer but decided not to spend their vacation dollars in Florida.

 

[Dcgc28]

Wondering if it has something to do with the travel warnings issued by the NAACP and Equality Florida. Or people otherwise not wanting to travel to FL because of ethical concerns with the current political climate. I do know several friends who wanted to come this summer but decided not to spend their vacation dollars in Florida.

Floridas conservatism is probably hurting it this year. But I think in general other states have identified and bought into tourism more recently. Texas and North Carolina for example are doing well with regional parks and other types of one stop locations (like Great Wolf Lodges I think they’re called)

California seems to be picking up steam again as well, not surprisingly once the covid stuff relaxed over there it was always going to get busy again.

I think people are just shifting around right now. People don’t want to admit anything due to personal opinions but travel like most things is cyclical Disney World spent money marketing the 50th as THE celebration. So it’s going to slow down after. That’s literally all that’s happening as far as things Disney can control. It’ll pick up later this year and then early next year with the changes and all will be well.

One thing that’s different on this site is we’re all Disney pros, we will probably all feel the same way we do today.

Sorry for the rambling not all of it was even directed at your quote specifically I just got going and didn’t stop

 

[irlandaise]

There is most certainly a shift in travel happening that is probably effecting the parks more than anything else:

May tourist tax dollars down month over month, year over year in Orange County​

Some changes relate to dropping convention center attendance, comptroller says​

That brings up a good question: anyone here know how the Anaheim Convention Center is doing? Attendance there could affect Disneyland visitor levels.

 

[jsergent]

I think people are just shifting around right now. People don’t want to admit anything due to personal opinions but travel like most things is cyclical Disney World spent money marketing the 50th as THE celebration. So it’s going to slow down after. That’s literally all that’s happening as far as things Disney can control. It’ll pick up later this year and then early next year with the changes and all will be well.

Don't discredit the cost of flights too. If we didn't have points to cover our flights, not sure we would have made it to Florida this summer. The cost of flights on top of all the other Disney/Universal costs makes for a very expensive vacation.