I finally get why people walk reservations. Disappointed.

[stevehudd]

Walking and rooms disappearing within a minute after 7 am at 11 months is unhealthy for DVC. I would aggressively re balance points to change behavior.

 

[DanCali]

Walking and rooms disappearing within a minute after 7 am at 11 months is unhealthy for DVC. I would aggressively re balance points to change behavior.

Be careful what you wish for... My feeling is that the type of rebalancing that would reduce walking most is not the type that involves moving points from summer to winter. It's the one that makes some of the most desired rooms pricier and less desired rooms cheaper.

Would the value studios at AKV still be "value" if they were priced more like "standard"? Would there be an outcry from owners if they did that?

And would owners be on average more or less happy if studios were pricier and 1BRs cheaper? That's one way to mitigate walking of studios, which is probably most prevalent, but I suspect that will cause a revolt among a large portion of owners who love to stretch their points.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Be careful what you wish for... My feeling is that the type of rebalancing that would reduce walking most is not the type that involves moving points from summer to winter. It's the one that makes some of the most desired rooms pricier and less desired rooms cheaper.

Would the value studios at AKV still be "value" if they were priced more like "standard"? Would there be an outcry from owners if they did that?

And would owners be on average more or less happy if studios were pricier and 1BRs cheaper? That one way to mitigate walking of studios, which is probably most prevalent, but I suspect that will cause a revolt among a large portion of owners who love to stretch their points.

I would be ecstatic if they did this! We stay in 1-bedroom the majority of stays and would love to see them a tad more reasonable, point-wise.

 

[stevehudd]

Be careful what you wish for... My feeling is that the type of rebalancing that would reduce walking most is not the type that involves moving points from summer to winter. It's the one that makes some of the most desired rooms pricier and less desired rooms cheaper.

Would the value studios at AKV still be "value" if they were priced more like "standard"? Would there be an outcry from owners if they did that?

And would owners be on average more or less happy if studios were pricier and 1BRs cheaper? That one way to mitigate walking of studios, which is probably most prevalent, but I suspect that will cause a revolt among a large portion of owners who love to stretch their points.

Rooms should reflect their true point value in the system. The value rooms are too cheap and should be increased.

 

[stevehudd]

If a set of owners plays the system to stretch their points it just hurts the other less savvy owners.

 

[Sandisw]

I would be ecstatic if they did this! We stay in 1-bedroom the majority of stays and would love to see them a tad more reasonable, point-wise.

I would not mind it myself! One of those things though that I don’t think they could shift it enough to make a difference in the end.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I would not mind it myself! One of those things though that I don’t think they could shift it enough to make a difference in the end.

Most likely not, but one can always dream.

 

[DanCali]

I would be ecstatic if they did this! We stay in 1-bedroom the majority of stays and would love to see them a tad more reasonable, point-wise.

Trying to look at it objectively, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't think 1BRs should be priced as high as they are. Certainly they are not double the cost of studios with cash stays (seems more like a 30%-40% premium with cash - and that's probably more reflective of demand and supply). I suspect, supply/demand would be a lot more balanced if they did that and the need to walk that many studios would also go away. Walking club level rooms at AKV would never go away though, simply because of scarcity.

That said, you do have a large cohort of owners who love their cheap standard-view studios and would be very upset if they now got 30% fewer nights for their points. Frankly, we also stay at studios mostly because our trips are shorter and I get more out of our points. We do splurge on a 2BR in Hawaii. I have no doubt we'd consider going with the 1BRs at WDW if they didn't cost double than what we pay for studios.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Trying to look at it objectively, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't think 1BRs should be priced as high as they are. Certainly they are not double the cost of studios with cash stays (seems more like a 30%-40% premium with cash - and that's probably more reflective of demand and supply). I suspect, supply/demand would be a lot more balanced if they did that and the need to walk that many studios would also go away. Walking concierge rooms at AKV would never go away though simply because of scarcity.

That said, you do have a lot cohort of owners who love their cheap standard-view studios and would be very upset if they now got 30% fewer nights for their points. We also stay at studios mostly because our trips are shorter. We do splurge on a 2BR in Hawaii. I have no doubt we'd consider going with the 1BRs at WDW if they didn't cost double than what we pay for studios.

Oh, I definitely think you are correct with this. It's no accident that the cheapest rooms get booked the fastest. I think it also depends on how you like to vacation. We enjoy having the kitchen and laundry, not to mention the space, of the 1-bedroom units. So, I get why they cost more, I just don't think they should be quite so high in comparison to the relative values of studios and 2-bedroom units.

 

[gisele2]

Just checking yesterday, it seems like most rooms at GF are being walked for the holidays vs none at beach club. I would strongly suggest owners buy a mix of points so they have multiple home resort advantages.

I bought in at GF last year exclusively for one and two bedrooms so I certainly contributed to the problem

People are walking the studios for the holiday season at BCV.

 

[Sandisw]

Trying to look at it objectively, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't think 1BRs should be priced as high as they are. Certainly they are not double the cost of studios with cash stays (seems more like a 30%-40% premium with cash - and that's probably more reflective of demand and supply). I suspect, supply/demand would be a lot more balanced if they did that and the need to walk that many studios would also go away. Walking club level rooms at AKV would never go away though, simply because of scarcity.

That said, you do have a lot cohort of owners who love their cheap standard-view studios and would be very upset if they now got 30% fewer nights for their points. Frankly, we also stay at studios mostly because our trips are shorter and I get more out of our points. We do splurge on a 2BR in Hawaii. I have no doubt we'd consider going with the 1BRs at WDW if they didn't cost double than what we pay for studios.

I think the thing right now is that when they created the resorts, they used square footage as a model for determine the point structures…so that can’t really be changed.

One thing we see in the new documents for the trust with the cabins, is specific language that they can move points across the entire resort property and not just unit by unit. With the cabins, they will all be the same type of accommodation…but, I can see this being the new way forward so that they could do some more point balancing across room sizes.

So, maybe we will see a smaller gap down the road between the studio and 1 bedrooms!

 

[tidefan]

I think the thing right now is that when they created the resorts, they used square footage as a model for determine the point structures…so that can’t really be changed.

One thing we see in the new documents for the trust with the cabins, is specific language that they can move points across the entire resort property and not just unit by unit. With the cabins, they will all be the same type of accommodation…but, I can see this being the new way forward so that they could do some more point balancing across room sizes.

So, maybe we will see a smaller gap down the road between the studio and 1 bedrooms!

@Sandisw , could that be potentially laying the groundwork for adding whatever gets built at Reflections to the CFW trust?

 

[Sandisw]

@Sandisw , could that be potentially laying the groundwork for adding whatever gets built at Reflections to the CFW trust?

It certainly could. Just to clarify, this is not the CFW trust. It is a the Palmetto Trust Association ,,,which may now be First American Trust assocation since they were named trustee.

The Cabins at FW are just the first resort property added to it and The Cabins Resort Use Plan is just the first vacation plan that has been included in this trust.

I think of it as phases of how the current resorts were created…VGF started with their original building and later added another resort property in the form of BPk.

With the trust, it can add resort property and units from any location. So, I can definitely see that they could add Reflections and all future properties to it, with their own unique vacation plans for RTU.

To bring this back to the thread, there is also some language in the trust documents that implies to me they could consider small changes down the line with booking. Nothing specific of course,e but a hint.

 

[tidefan]

It certainly could. Just to clarify, this is not the CFW trust. It is a the Palmetto Trust Association ,,,which may now be First American Trust assocation since they were named trustee.

The Cabins at FW are just the first resort property added to it and The Cabins Resort Use Plan is just the first vacation plan that has been included in this trust.

I think of it as phases of how the current resorts were created…VGF started with their original building and later added another resort property in the form of BPk.

With the trust, it can add resort property and units from any location. So, I can definitely see that they could add Reflections and all future properties to it, with their own unique vacation plans for RTU.

To bring this back to the thread, there is also some language in the trust documents that implies to me they could consider small changes down the line with booking. Nothing specific of course,e but a hint.

I guess what I was getting at was that they could bring in Reflections/River Country Lodge/whatever it may be called and put it in the same association as the Cabins, then this language would allow them to reallocate point totals across units (so adjust Reflections 2-bedrooms vs cabin units.). In other words, it's the legalese to allow what many people thought wasn't legal when they reallocated the treehouses at SSR.

 

[Brian Noble]

you do have a lot cohort of owners who love their cheap standard-view studios and would be very upset if they now got 30% fewer nights for their points.

Very upset is putting it mildly. You should have seen the brouhaha when DVC rebalanced weekends and weekdays back in the day. Yoi and double yoi.

There were a LOT of people who had gotten contracts specifically for a five-day Sunday-Friday stay. Heck one of the most common point-stretching pieces of advice was to book with the Member cash discount on Friday/Saturday and link the reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess what I was getting at was that they could bring in Reflections/River Country Lodge/whatever it may be called and put it in the same association as the Cabins, then this language would allow them to reallocate point totals across units (so adjust Reflections 2-bedrooms vs cabin units.). In other words, it's the legalese to allow what many people thought wasn't legal when they reallocated the treehouses at SSR.

Because these are units still owned by the trust, they can set up the trust POS with whatever rules they want regarding the resort properties how points attached to units that are activated into the plan can be reallocated within the resort property

In this case, they’d be adding the Reflections units to the Cabins property as one big resort and then make whatever changes they need to.

So, if they have some rooms booking up way too quickly within a resort property, I think they are giving themselves permission to do that to balance out the demand, so that walking could be a bit harder if the point structure is changing.

They did write it so they are still limited to the 20% up or down with each change so that is the same as what we have currently in terms of rebalancing of rooms to meet demand.

 

[CarolynFH]

I would be ecstatic if they did this! We stay in 1-bedroom the majority of stays and would love to see them a tad more reasonable, point-wise.

LOL, in the original 2020 points charts (that were replaced after uproar) they increased cost of studios and 1BR and decreased 2BR. We prefer 1BR too, but I’m afraid they’d rebalance the wrong way if they got that power over the older resorts.

 

[RichVIII]

As the price point has gotten higher and for many different/years and times, the points buy-in has been lowered, newer owners (in general) have less points to work with. Hell, even as a longer time owner who purchased a 50 point contract at another resort - it’s hard to put together anything of size with studios with banking and borrowing. Even if you buy in now at the 150 point mark, most resorts are stretch for a 1BR. So it drives everyone to the cheapest rooms so they go first.

 

[DaveNan]

I just looked at availability at all the studios from 12/1 to 12/6. The only resorts with all nights open in any category are SSR, PKW, Poly (Lake) and Kidani (SAV). But the key thing here is for all those booked resorts, it is not just 12/6 that is booked. In every category that has 12/6 booked, either 12/5 or 12/4 are also booked and in most categories, there is almost no availability from 12/1 through 12/6. This is not just walking. This is high demand. With walking alone and no high demand, you see the previous days come available and stay available. When you do not see availability at 10 months and 25-29 days, you might have walking, but you also have high demand overall and eliminating walking will not eliminate the issue of members not getting the rooms they desire. DVC members love to stretch their points. The time between Thanksgiving and Christmas is already a popular and the points needed are lower than the holidays, so starting on 12/1 all the rooms are booked. I was not watching as we led up to 12/1, but if you had daily availability being missing at exactly 12 months leading up to 12/1, then members were walking to this week. Also, as of right not, only AKV club and BLT TPV are booked for 12/7, if this was walking, many more rooms would already be booked for tomorrow. IIFRC, they did actually bump up the points needed for early December in the last rebalance. They may do it again next time.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Rooms should reflect their true point value in the system. The value rooms are too cheap and should be increased.

DVC removed points from the Value rooms to try and rebalance the Concierge rooms. It was nonsensical as they will never diminish the interest in the Concierge. All they succeeded with was making the Value rooms even more desirable.