IB diploma? Bright Futures scholarships?

[mom2rtk]

This is true. My older DD had a friend--very smart--graduated 2nd in his class. He went to Columbia, and they wouldn't take a single AP or college credit for him. They said it was because they wanted him to get the Columbia quality/style of teaching, but I suspect it was so that they could wring more tuition out of the parents.

I know that here (North Carolina), the UNC system will take AP credits, IB credits, and dual enrollment credits. Our DS15 plans to dual enroll At the local UNC, rather than the local community college. The CC is decent, but I don't think it has the higher level math that he'll need (he plans to be an engineer). But, I would say that the CC is a good school--they seem to get a bad rep in some places, but our local one has a lot of good programs.

We went to an information session on my alma mater back when our second son was applying to schools. I was surprised to find out they wouldn't accept dual credit. Back in the day, I took classes at a local University over the summer break and they transferred just fine. But I was also able to graduate a trimester early and save all that tuition. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of it.

My kids went to schools that did accept dual credit, but they chose to take some of those classes over again anyway, just to lay the groundwork properly. My 2 engineering majors chose to repeat their highest level of Calculus completed as dual enrollment in high school. They were able to use those credits to fulfill other obligations (like electives) but it would have been more complicated with a pile of dual credit.

 

[tzolkin]

I graduated with an IB diploma back in 1999 and know quite a few people from different places who also participated in the program. The greatest benefit is that it prepares you better for college than any other program. It’s the most rigorous. Writing papers becomes nearly effortless with so much practice. Classes are also small and you are surrounded with other high-achievers. I attended a top 10 private liberal arts college and it was a breeze to complete multiple majors with high honors after the preparation I received in IB.

The courses themselves are equivalent to AP. The difference is that you must perform at an AP level in ALL areas (not just the subjects you’re “good” at). There are a few other program requirements that add to the focus on being well-rounded— mandatory minimum hours of creativity, physical activity, and community service as well as courses like Theory of Knowledge (philosophy).

I wonder if it has to do with states. Here we had students graduating with their associate in some cases BEFORE they got their official high school diploma....

My younger two are doing this.

The youngest is attending an “Early College High School” where the curriculum is set up so that they essentially complete their high school requirements in two years and graduate with an Associates degree from the community college when they should be finishing high school.

My middle child is homeschooled but taking all her classes this year (junior) and next at the local community college. In our county high schoolers are allowed to take classes at cc for free (pay for books only) so this has been a great alternative to the Early College program.

Even though they will both have two years of college completed, it’s definitely not comparable to IB. While I do think there are benefits to IB, it’s not for every personality. There is a great deal of pressure— to achieve certain test scores, to participate in loads of extracurriculars to build your resume, to impress your instructors, to be accepted to the most prestigious schools, etc. I just don’t believe my two younger kids would thrive in that type of environment so this has been a more practical and healthy path for them.

 

[JimMIA]

Bright Futures gives you a monetary equivalent award if you attend a qualifying private university in Florida

You are correct, and I have corrected my post. Thanks!

 

[okeydokey]

That's true for most colleges, but not all. There are a few colleges that won't take transfer dual credit.

I believe the OP is discussing state universities in Florida. They all take dual enrollment credit earned at Florida high schools.

 

[okeydokey]

Bright futures is an amazing program in Florida, but it is tough to get. Test scores for ACT are 26 for 75% tuition, and 29 for 100% tuition, and you must maintain a certain GPA to keep it.

‘The Florida legislature is currently working a bill that will enable them to cut these amounts and decide year by year what the scholarship is worth. They also want to reduce the total amount of credits covered if a student has earned AP credit in high school. Dual enrollment seems to be the safest bet at this point, but they legislation could change every year.

 

[JimMIA]

Bright futures is an amazing program in Florida, but it is tough to get. Test scores for ACT are 26 for 75% tuition, and 29 for 100% tuition, and you must maintain a certain GPA to keep it.

For 2021, they actually dropped the ACT score for 75% to 25. The link I posted earlier shows the new 2021 criteria.

‘The Florida legislature is currently working a bill that will enable them to cut these amounts and decide year by year what the scholarship is worth. They also want to reduce the total amount of credits covered if a student has earned AP credit in high school. Dual enrollment seems to be the safest bet at this point, but they legislation could change every year.

Yeah, the legislature has been working on a LOT of ideas because as our population grows, demand for Bright Futures grows. Colleges and universities are always also trying to increase tuition and fees, and that further drives up the cost of Bright Future scholarships. Problem is, the program is limited by Florida Lottery revenues. So they are trying to find a balance.

And, of course, not all of their ideas are going to make perfect sense.

For example, the program pays for 120 hours of credit, but if a student enters college already with a significant number of hours, Bright Futures would have to pay for fewer hours for the student to get their bachelors degree. But if you're going to exclude AP hours, how do you justify paying for the full 120 hours for a kid who enters with an AA via Dual Enrollment? Makes no sense.

Bright Futures and Florida Prepaid both present funding challenges for the legislature, with Bright Futures being a much bigger potential issue.

 

[okeydokey]

Florida public universities haven't increased tuition and fees since 2013. Doing so involves approval from the BOG and isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Even with large budget cuts looming for this coming fiscal year.

 

[NotUrsula]

I assume that since you mention Bright Futures that you have moved to Florida? My DS recently graduated from USF as an out-of-state student, so we could not take advantage of Bright Futures, but I'm going to toss in a mention of a nationally-available 3rd program that all of the Florida public universities do honor for anyone to some extent: CLEP. https://clep.collegeboard.org/

CLEP is a straight-up exam program. It costs $89 per subject test, and there is no special class or enrollment program that you have to participate in HS in order to take them; you just pick the tests and pay the fees. Not all colleges honor them (and in some states almost none at all do), but they are an EXCELLENT option if your target schools do take them, because you can wait to take the CLEP exams until after you have been accepted to and chosen your college, so that there is no effort or money wasted on a program that didn't count for that university.

I used CLEP myself to clip a year off my BA program, and my DS shaved a semester off his load at USF. He still attended for 4 years, but he changed major partway through and lost a couple of credits; the CLEP credits meant that he had a cushion of sorts that made that way less painful for us.

Also, FWIW, we live in a state where in-state tuition is much higher, so paying out-of-state tuition in Florida wasn't all that much more expensive than in-state here. He got an excellent education at USF without breaking the bank.

 

[JimMIA]

.

He got an excellent education at USF without breaking the bank.

Yep, Florida's university system has made huge strides in recent years. When I went to college, it was UF (Go Gators!) or FSU. There were other state universities, but those were much preferred.

Now that has changed a lot. UF and FSU are still very good, but we have at least three other universities that are very close behind and closing. They are the University of Central Florida (UCF) in Orlando (where DD goes), University of South Florida (USF) in Tampa, and Florida International University (FIU) in Miami. All three have medical schools, and all three really have a LOT to offer.

 

[5lilfish]

Thank you for all of the replies....a lot of information to take in and help us decide. Basically, it looks like IB and regular classes with AP's thrown in are both good options. Since we'd be completely new to an area with AB and moving in just as our girls start high school, choosing this path seems a little overwhelming to us (because it is something we are totally unfamiliar with), so it's good to know that not choosing it isn't necessarily harmful.

Jess

 

[JimMIA]

Thank you for all of the replies....a lot of information to take in and help us decide. Basically, it looks like IB and regular classes with AP's thrown in are both good options. Since we'd be completely new to an area with AB and moving in just as our girls start high school, choosing this path seems a little overwhelming to us (because it is something we are totally unfamiliar with), so it's good to know that not choosing it isn't necessarily harmful.

Jess

Which city are you moving to? And what part of town do you plan to live in?

 

[nancipants]

I haven't read the other replies yet, but I graduated from an IB high school in 1999. It was hard, but I loved it. The program was about 125 people, so we all knew each other and had most of all classes with the same people. I felt like I learned how to think, not memorize rote facts. Back then we had a choice between French and Spanish for language, and could choose an IB elected (I did theater). Because of the timing of IB exams, I basically finished high school a month early. Back then, I got a full ride Bright Futures scholarship because I got my IB diploma. I also finished college in 3 years.

To reiterate, though, it was HARD. I had much more homework in senior year of high school than my first year of college.

 

[nancipants]

I graduated with an IB diploma back in 1999 and know quite a few people from different places who also participated in the program. The greatest benefit is that it prepares you better for college than any other program. It’s the most rigorous. Writing papers becomes nearly effortless with so much practice.

I remember when people in one of my first college classes complained about writing a 1,000 word essay. I was like, LOL. Easy breezy.

 

[White Cat]

I remember when people in one of my first college classes complained about writing a 1,000 word essay. I was like, LOL. Easy breezy.

My two said the same. The first 2 years of university was easier than high school. But they sent to a very challenging private high school with very motivated students.

 

[lifesavacation]

It's not about any specific program. Some of the highly competitive Universities just won't take them. Or require a special approval process.

This is true. My daughter did dual enrollment. They call it Running Start in WA. We knew she was going to a specific university because she is on athletic scholarship and committed to them before her junior year. I worked very closely with that university to make sure everything would transfer as core credits rather than just electives. There were a couple of classes I had to get special permission from the dean for acceptance. She enters the university in the fall with her AA and has a 2 year plan with the university to finish her BS. Since her scholarship is for 4 years, the university will pay for 2 years of her doctorate.

My daughter's best friend was accepted to a handful of universities, like Baylor, ASU, OSU, University of Arizona. She also does running start. When she met with each university, only a couple would accept the credits towards the core credits. She really wanted to go to Baylor but they would only take the credits as electives.

Now I believe if the girls had chosen colleges in our state, the credits would have been accepted at the public universities. But, any student going into these programs in high school needs to be aware that the credits don't automatically transfer and count towards the core credits.

 

[mrs. magoo]

I am a teacher at a IB school in the inner city. You have gotten good information from many people on here but as a teacher I can tell you that for some kids IB is way too stressful. My school has an arrangement with a well known high achieving university that if students receive their IB diploma (not an easy thing) they earn free tuition (56,000 a year for 4 years). Not many of the kids actually achieve the diploma. Many of the kids continued in the program only to struggle and graduate with a lower GPA than if they took honors classes or AP classes. I have counseled some kids out of the program and they did much better. I did not have my own high achieving kids do IB. They went the way of AP and some dual credit classes. Kids have enough stress that I did not want to pile anymore on them.

My niece graduated with an IB diploma and was able to graduate from USC in 3 years due to credits transferring. My own children usually have APs and dual credit transfer as electives but not often for things in their majors.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[JimMIA]

But, any student going into these programs in high school needs to be aware that the credits don't automatically transfer and count towards the core credits.

The same is true for "bonus points" on "weighted" GPA for IB, AP, DE, Honors, etc high school classes. Every university evaluates those classes differently, even in the same university system.

For example, because of the differences in standards and grading systems, DD's school (UCF) recalculates every weighted GPA to their own standards. They award 1 bonus point for an A and 1/2 point for a B for Honors, AP, IB, etc, etc. BUT...they only count core courses required for graduation from high school by the State of Florida. Non-core courses are not counted at all. Elective courses are not counted at all. So some students find their UCF-recalculated weighted GPA is somewhat lower than they thought it would be. DD's 4.6+ turned out to be only 4.2 recalculated.

The other thing about those "bonus" courses is that they may not really give you a bonus at all, even if the course counts. Say you take an AP World History course, rather than a regular World History. You get a B in a class you would have gotten an A in with regular curriculum -- so your weighted score for that class is 4...same if you'd taken the easier class and gotten an A. And your unweighted GPA (not everyone uses weighted) is only a 3.

 

[lifesavacation]

The same is true for "bonus points" on "weighted" GPA for IB, AP, DE, Honors, etc high school classes. Every university evaluates those classes differently, even in the same university system.

For example, because of the differences in standards and grading systems, DD's school (UCF) recalculates every weighted GPA to their own standards. They award 1 bonus point for an A and 1/2 point for a B for Honors, AP, IB, etc, etc. BUT...they only count core courses required for graduation from high school by the State of Florida. Non-core courses are not counted at all. Elective courses are not counted at all. So some students find their UCF-recalculated weighted GPA is somewhat lower than they thought it would be. DD's 4.6+ turned out to be only 4.2 recalculated.

The other thing about those "bonus" courses is that they may not really give you a bonus at all, even if the course counts. Say you take an AP World History course, rather than a regular World History. You get a B in a class you would have gotten an A in with regular curriculum -- so your weighted score for that class is 4...same if you'd taken the easier class and gotten an A. And your unweighted GPA (not everyone uses weighted) is only a 3.

My daughter and her best friend are getting their AA degree in Biology. They've taken standard courses chemistry, biology, physics, along with English comp & lit and psychology. We had to provide a syllabus and books for a couple of the courses, but they all transferred. The girls didn't take any true "electives" that were considered non-core. Thankfully, both girls know they want to go into medical sciences. It probably would have complicated things if they wanted to go into social sciences or something like that.

Making sure the credits work for high school, the local college, and then the transferring college is a complicated puzzle for sure. The Running Start program is free through our high school so definitely worth it

 

[JimMIA]

My daughter and her best friend are getting their AA degree in Biology. They've taken standard courses chemistry, biology, physics, along with English comp & lit and psychology. We had to provide a syllabus and books for a couple of the courses, but they all transferred. The girls didn't take any true "electives" that were considered non-core. Thankfully, both girls know they want to go into medical sciences. It probably would have complicated things if they wanted to go into social sciences or something like that.

Making sure the credits work for high school, the local college, and then the transferring college is a complicated puzzle for sure. The Running Start program is free through our high school so definitely worth it

We both must be great parents, lol! DD graduated from a Biomedical Research magnet program and is a Biomedical Research major at UCF!

 

[momz]

IB is not a thing in my area. But, our high school pushes kids to take AP classes. My daughter took a few and did fine, not top of the class, but she did well enough for them to count. However, once she got to college, she discovered that they didn't count for much. She stressed and stressed over those courses, having been told how wonderful it would be to carry them over into college. What a waste of energy! Sure, she has some extra electives, but what does AP history, etc do for a music major? She took a total of 7 AP classes. Only one mattered at all, and that is debatable. That class was AP music theory. Taking music theory as an AP class got her placed in a higher level music theory class in college...so basically, she had harder work there, while other freshmen took the easier music theory class.

Now, my son is in his junior year of high school. He has faced the same pressure from the school system to take AP classes (he is very smart, could be in the top 10%). However, he has zero interest in the AP courses that are available. I have been his advocate with the guidance counselor and refuse to let them enroll him in those courses. It would be a miserable existence for him...and for no advantage.

I don't believe all the hype that the high school throws at kids. Unless the child is targeting an elite institution or an elite program, a good GPA is enough. The AP stuff is mentally stressful and is not for everyone.

As for the Bright Futures program, I have no experience. But, my state has a program called 21st Century Scholars. Unfortunately, my kids don't qualify to take advantage of this program because it has income limits. We make too much. Shame.