If you could do anything you wanted with EPCOT....

[dragonflymanor]

On ThemedAttraction.com we started a discussion about what would we do to EPCOT. It has been said that EPCOT is the least successful WDW park based on surveys of guests (read the discussion on themedattraction.com if you want more).

Without debating the validity of the statement of the success of EPCOT, I thought I'd pose the question here for this group to debate and discuss.

So, if you were king of WDW with the mission to make EPCOT the most successful park, what would you do in terms of theme, mission, strategy, customer retention, etc.

I'll start it off with my:

Broad Strokes for Epcot

I would turn World Showcase into an extravaganza of art, rather than a mock-up of various architectures. I was brought back to Tapestry of Nations and some of the street performers, whose costuming and stage presentation I greatly admire. World Showcase would contain wild costumes, strange buildings, rides that aren't just movies where you stand around even longer (one of my pet peeves are the stand-up movies - my feet are already tired and I want attractions that get me off my feet after standing in line!). World Showcase is missing a sense of whimsy and making it an art extravaganza would all that sense to return. I would take out the department stores. It seems like every country is basically a department store with a 15 minute movie (except for some exceptions). Europeans would still come to World Showcase because it represents something that can't be found anywhere else. The whimsy that is missing from World Showcase would keep kids, teens, and adults entertained and coming back.

Future World into Future City...hmmm... this is an idea (from the ThemedAttraction discussion) that has merit. Future World has some really neat things currently - Spaceship Earth icon, the moving "signs" that spin and turn with really interesting shapes, a beautiful garden feel. I somewhat feel like I am in a Worlds Fair, but I also feel like I'm constantly going from advertisement to advertisement. Overall, it's a bit too heavy handed with each theme. For example, I love Ellens Energy Adventure because it's cool, it's big, and I like the dinosaurs. However, I feel like I'm getting an oil company "We really are great people - love us!" message. Test Track is another example. I hate getting dumped in the exit into a dealership showroom for the next GM products. I can get that at home. Again, like the ride, hate the message.

So what would I do with Future World? I think I would turn it into Future City - I like that idea. I like the idea of meeting the "inhabitants" who are running their little shops and enjoying life in their time. It's just like Main Street in MK, I feel like I'm just breezing through someone's very busy town and they are just going about their business. The rides and attractions need to be based on theme, not the technology. I love Spaceship Earth, but I think it could be better if it didn't feel like a elementary school film slide show about communication. Technology moves faster than attraction development, however people really don't change. Shakespeare's storytelling is just as effective today as in his time. Base the Future City rides on a good story, set in the future, but not a ride to showcase a particular technology.


In general, Epcot suffers from taking itself too seriously. The only break in the seriousness is the Imagination Institute with Honey I shrunk the Audience and JITYI. Think about, each attraction is just a serious look at ______, you fill in the blanks. Why are the lines for HISTA so long bu Oh Canada is easy to get on? I say its that people enjoy the whimsy and don't really want to pay to be preached to.

Epcot is beautiful. I enjoy it, but if it were mine to do anything I want, this is my big picture direction.


okay, so what is yours?


Roger Wyatt
Founder and Principal
Dragonly Manor

 

[Tik Tok]

I would love to see a more "enclosed" Future World. Granted, it's kind of nice having all that open space between the pavilions, but you loose that intimate feel that the MK has. I would like to see them make you really feel like you are in a City of the Future - with towering buildings and soaring walkways high above the ground -- like in Metropolis of something. Really make us feel like we are right in the middle of Nova Cite (from the old Horizons pavillion). They could even use some of the existing pavilions - and just change the facades to incorporate them into the "city" feel.

Let me break this down:

I would like to see the entrance of the park pushed back at least to the first parking lot. Then I would like to see a vast transportation hub just bustling with "futuristic" modes of transportation. Incorporate monorails at the top (to all of WDW of course ), a peoplemover system for Epcot, and then the trams at the bottom. The ticket booths and entrance would be under this transportation hub.

After you enter the park, you would enter the "Main Street" of Future World. The monorail would still follow it's same route, and the peoplemover would travel around the street and then veer off toward UoE. There would be a bunch of new buildings all leading up to Spaceship Earth - which would serve as the focal point of this new "street". I'm not sure what exactly would be in the buildings, but I'll leave that to the Imagineers to fill in!

The Innoventions area would now serve as "Town Square". I'd like to see another story added to the Innoventions buildings - with an attraction on each side. And I suppose they could even still keep Innoventions of the top level.

Then each of the pavillions could serve as a different area of town. Energy could be some Futuristic Power center, Mission SPACE the space port, Wonders of Life the Medical area, etc, etc -- you get the idea. And I would love to see a PeopleMover stop at the four corners of Future World - one at SPACE, one at the entrance to Future World, one at the entrance to World Showcase, and one at The Land. That way people could ride around the park and get previews of the different pavilions.

Anyway, that's some of my ideas for Future World. World Showcase is a whole 'nother story which we'll save for another time.

 

[Bob O]

In future world i would update several pavilions that are dated ie-Living Seas as a example.
In the World Showcase i would add countries to the list, alot have been mentioned in the past, as examples of Countries Egypt/Russia etc. The countries would have some type of e-ticket attraction and would update the films in the other countries. Would also if possible expand the American pavilion so it would be the premier country of all the countries in the showcase.

 

[Bamboo]

Disneyand Tokyo is connected to public rail system I would like to see a station at EPCOT when Florida builds a high speed train.The layout of the parks seem to be either "urban" or "suburban" Magic Kingdom is the most urban while Animal Kingdom is the most suburban.Main Street in MK ends in a traffic roundabout with a hub and spoke design.Public transportation is at the urban parks while there is less at the suburban parks.The suburban scale of Animal Kingdom and EPCOT requires energy draining beltway travel which works in a car but not on foot.Fastpass at suburban parks is daunting while complex schedules at an urban park seems to create value to the experience.Crowding can be bypassed at an urban park while at a suburban park it seems like a traffic jam without air conditioning.Behind the scenes infrastructure is different, MK's expensive tunnels and monorail resorts verses EPCOT's cheap service roads and value resort busses make development cheaper which is the goal of suburbia,quantity over quality.When people get to try both designs they chose the better one.

 

[Testtrack321]

So what will I change? Welll...........

Future World:

First, develope one more pavilion to even out the pavilion ration (currently 4:3). The weather one sounds nice, but I can see yet another "future" pavilion (along the lines of Horizions) but make it more interchangeable, alow for sceans to undergow transformation and still have the ride run. Second thing would be to improve the human part of Future World. Bring back The Aviators and put them exclusively in Future World. Second would be to re-do Innoventions. Make it so multipul developers are showcased in one area (ie, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all in Video Game part). The other would be to improve the overall cleanzieness of the area, clean, clean, clean. The last would be to tear down the wand. Now. 2000 was nice, but this is over kill. But leave Leave a Legacy.

World Showcase:

Add more rides. Develop the pavilions along three lines: food, history, and art. Then reinstate Tapestry of Nations to it's Millennium Celebration glory. But, include the bells and chimes on the puppets now. The last would to be bring in 3 more countries, each with a diffrent type of ride. Along with that, I would add two rides to current pavilions.

 

[Planogirl]

I like World Showcase just as it is except for a few modifications. I would add some attractions that reinforces the culture of each country. For instance a dark ride of some kind for Morocco and an audioanimatronic show in Great Britain featuring Pooh. A few more countries would be nice too along with some streetmosphere. I would definitely install a good restaurant in the US pavilion that showcases the excellent food that we enjoy and not just the fast food. I would NEVER get rid of the shops but that's just me.

Where to begin with Future World... Another pavilion is badly needed to balance things out, I agree with that. I like the idea of bringing back a pavilion that deals with the future like Horizons but it would have to be easily changed since the future is always changing. Future World could use more color and activity. It's a bit too sprawled out and gray IMO. The Living Seas needs a major refurbishment with a greater emphasis on sea life with maybe even a show of some kind.

I don't think that Disney will have much luck attracting sponsors if they don't let the sponsors state their message. And with no sponsors, no pavilions.

 

[dragonflymanor]

There have been other attractions that have been sponsored but don't get heavy-handed with the advertisements. Heck, DL started with sponsors but you didn't see advertisement-based pavilions to such a degree. Did the Carousel of Progress (sponsored by GE I think) dump you out into a store to buy lightbulbs?


Okay, everyone seems to be talking about attractions. There's more to it than "build a ____ ride". After all, we're talking about a theme park not an amusement park.

I'll add a little flavor to the soup here...


What should the "feel" of Future World be?
What should the "feel" of World Showcase be?
Should the two places seem like different places?
Do they really fit together?


As Linda Richmann says: "Discuss!"


Roger Wyatt
Founder and Principal
Dragonfly Manor

 

[PKS44]

Simple-

Change admission to three levels-using colored wrist bands-like many good ideas this is an idea stolen- in this case from the successful Tokyo Disney resort)

1)as it is now-unlimited access
2)A cheaper admission that allows you to ride a few rides, punched off your wrist band
3)A no rides, shopping and eating admission level-

This would increase the gate tremendously with locals and people at the beginning and ends of their stays when they don't want to use Parkhopper days. Too much trouble? Not in Tokyo, where they have more guests than ANY THEME PARK IN THE WORLD.

 

[Demosthenes]

Epcot desperately needs a true e-ticket attraction. I'm not a coaster park kind of guy, but Epcot could use a good thrill. I also think that each pavillion in the World Showcase needs some kind of attraction apart from streetmosphere types. The pavillions should showcase each country's past, present and future. I think this would help it tie in better to Futureworld.

Examples of attraction for each pavillion:

Germany: This place calls out for a movie that focuses on German composers.

Italy: A ride showcasing the history of the Roman Empire, the fall of Rome, the Rise of Christianity, and then showing modern Italy.

Japan: Materhorn Clone.

Morroco: No idea!

U.K.: A real hedge maze could be a fun and cheap attraction.

 

[travelgoddess]

I have just a few simple suggestions..............

On test track do 2 or 3 loops around the track at the end instead of just 1.

Add a moving sidewalk of sorts between FW and WS, its a very long walk back to the
front at the end of the day.

I second, adding seats to the stand up shows at WS.

 

[maleficent1959]

Originally posted by Demosthenes

U.K.: A real hedge maze could be a fun and cheap attraction.

I agree. They have the space, and Disney put one in DLP that I remember being very popular. But please, if they ever start putting character-based attractions in World Showcase put someone other than Pooh in the U.K. I am Pooh-ed out.

DH comments every time we go that he would like to see other countries represented in World Showcase.

Epcot is my favorite park, but what I like least about World Showcase is that many of the pavilions focus on shopping. I know some people love to shop, but I'd like to learn something about the countries respresented, not just see some overpriced imports.

 

[YoHo]

I've started this thread and answered it so many times before, but I never get bored with it.

(I would by the way challenge the assertion that EPCOT is the least popular)

First of all, I would put in a whole lot of miniexhibits throughout futureworld to tie one pavilion to the next.
Then I would revamp The Living Seas to be less about the fish (that's for AK) and more about Man's interaction with the Water. Stromrider would be a seperate building between sea and land.

3rd I would build a New Horizons/COP and put it dead center in futureworld. it is the point of the whole place after all.

I've said a lot more in the past and If I get time I'll expand.

 

[dragonflymanor]

Well, there have been lots of good ideas on various rides but what about the overall concept of the place?

Walts original idea was for a community of tomorrow, has EPCOT succeeded in that respect? Do you think that the technology showcase of Future World is working?
What about the architecture?

As for World Showcase, Europeans are one of the largest groups of visitors to EPCOT and it has been said that World Showcase isn't particularly a draw for them because they can easily go see the real thing back home. What would you do to World Showcase? How would you change it?

Before you start talking rides, you have to talk about direction. What about the direction/focus of the place?

Roger Wyatt
Founder and Principal
Dragonfly Manor

 

[YoHo]

Actually, Walt's vision was never enacted at Epcot and as built it was never supposed to be. Walt after all wasn't building a Themepark, he was building a real working city.

Epcot should be thought of as a standing World's Fair. It really has that feal and I think that is an excellent theme to keep. I can understand the concerns over the World Showcase, but you proceed from the assumption that Epcot is the most underperforming park which I'm 99% sure isn't true. The theme's are still Valid as is World Showcase.

I think World showcase really is a great idea that works well. if for nothing else then the quality of the food.

 

[dragonflymanor]

When the discussion started on ThemedAttraction.com, Eddie Sotto made the statement based upon some exit surveys that listed EPCOT as the lowest of the parks on the "intent to return" question. Whether or not that survey was first-hand knowledge or not I don't know.

Given some other reactions from European visitors and when you consider the number of families with children who might not appreciate EPCOT it seems like it could be valid.

I realize that Walt's vision wasn't ever built. An actual community really can't be a theme park because I can't see people wanting to be the exhibits (unless you are paid to put on the costume). However, I don't think it is pulling off the "Permanent Worlds Fair" theme as well as expected.

Worlds Fairs always showcase new technology and new ideas. The fact that they build a new one each time helps make sure it's always fresh. How fresh is EPCOT? In the other discussions, it was mentioned that innoventions (one of my most avoided attractions) was Eisners brainchild. He thought it would be neat to have a permanent trade show at Disney. That's exactly the reason I avoid it.

I think Epcot could boost attendance by a change in strategy. They keep having problems trying to make sure people "get it". Well, if your users don't "get it" then you messed up. It's entirely on the shoulders of the creators to make sure the users "get it". Seems to be that they missed the mark that people want to come and be educated. Call it a sad statement of humanity, but I think it's true. Is Test Track popular because everyone is so interested in really getting into automotive testing, or is it because its a fun ride? I say it's because it's a fun ride. How many people hang around in the car dealership section after the ride? Not many.

I'm not saying the cure for Epcot is more E-Ticket rides. I'm saying that the Worlds Fair thing isn't cutting it enough. Disney's core is building places that take you to another time and place. There are parts of Epcot I really love, but in trying to be objective I see where it's more than just "We need a Matterhorn" or "Do something with Living Seas". The concept needs to be worked back from the original idea.

I propose converting World Showcase into a City of Tomorrow much like Main Street in MK is a "city". I do not propose turning it into a shopping mall of Tomorrow, but capture the feel of being in a town. It feels too much to me like I'm disconnected from the pavilions. I go to see something, but in between - nothing.

A City of Tomorrow could be accomplished with the current buildings and built in phases. First, there needs to be more of a focus on a community. To build this, you need to turn some areas into "support" facilities that would be required of a city of tomorrow. Transportation around the city would be added which would give each pavilion more of a connectedness. The Land pavilion could be the cities agricultural area while the Living Seas provides for how to deal with the ocean environment with which this city must co-exists. Perhaps the city is actually located on the coast so the Living Seas becomes more than just the "Sea Base Alpha", but allows you to experience coastal life in an age with stronger hurricanes, or higher sea levels.

These are the types of things that must be examined before "Let's put in Stormrider at the Living Seas" is mentioned. (I'm not saying you said that, YoHo).

Roger Wyatt
Dragonfly Manor

 

[eeyore0062]

1st I would change Innovations into something more interesting that a glorified advertisement... I preferred it's 1st incarnation... with self discovery... we had such a blast creating our own rollercoasters... I know now you can do that with computer programs at home, but perhaps something along those lines...

Universe of Energy... I would beef up the ride and make it more thrilling... and get rid of Ellen Degeneres.

For Wonders of Life, I would replace the tired Body Wars with a new incarnation... instead of having a simulator ride propel you through the blood steam, I would have a rollercoaster as the vehicle of choice.

Test Track--fine as it is.

Horizons-- the necessary changes are being done as we speak.

Living Seas--- put the ride part back in

Living with the Land--- fine as it is

Imagination--- return it to its former splender... the jury is still out on the upgrades and reintroduction of Figment!

World Showcase---more rides, less 360 movies. The idea is great, but there isn't alot to hold a younger persons attention--Kidcot is a start, but something else needs to be done. Perhaps a Matterhorn type ride in the addition of the Swiss pavillion? A Greek pavillion would be great!

 

[YoHo]

Everything I've heard around here shows that Animal Kingdom is the park with the lowest guest satisfaction and intent to return.


The flaw with Futureworld and really tomorrowland before it is that in order to continuously be of the future, you must continually update, something that the Post Walt CEOs have been afraid of.

Ultimatly, turning futureworld into a City like Mainstreet would run into the same problem. the life expectancy would be in terms of a couple years before it would be outdated and foolishlooking

People want to be educated. The problem is that the education that Epcot provides is so Early 1980s it hurts. In order to make Epcot work there must be a continuous influx of cash.

In my opinion, Test Track is a terrible Epcot ride, because it isn't furutristic and there isn't enough pavilion to it.

Epcot has lost its way. The problem isn't that it needs a new focus, but that it needs to regain its old one and spend accordingly.

 

[ContempoSMT]

I would knock out Living with Land , El Rio Del Tiempo , and Body Wars

I would bring back Horizons in a much updated fashion that would be evry cool
Need a few more newer faster rides and maybe update the inside of Spaceship Earth

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I LOVE the Land & Living with the land. I feel where EPCOT has fallen down is that it hasn't pushed hard enough on the education angle. Plus...the need to have sponsorship means they only present one side of certain stories...for example the displays about genetically engineered food are one sided (in Innoventions).

World Showcase...yes music is lacking in both Germany & Italy. Japan needs a ride & I think a virtual reality ride based upon "japanimation" would fit nicely here.

 

[Conure]

What I would do is at the very least, bring back Horizons. That would definately be a priority. I would also make the World Showcase more interactive and bringing in attractions there to erase th painfully false "nerdy" classification the park has been subject to. An example would be ethnic food eating contests. Imagine how big of crowds those would attract. Imagine a snail eating contest in France, or a less exotic spaghetti eating contest in Italy. As food goes, adults, (but definately not kids) might enjoy ethnic cooking demonstrations. Kids would probably like interactive product demonstrations of where things came from. (Like Sony Products from Japan) Or, sports. One word SOCCER! The most popular youth sport in the US, Norway or Italy could easily hold soccer clinics or something to attract more kids. Participating interactively is the main objective though. The textbook style of information makes kids bored listening to the name. But if they were more involved, and could try different things, it would definately help. I should know. I'm twelve.


I never let schooling get in the way of my education.
-Mark Twain