Is Dune the “Star Wars” many of us want?

[SteveH]

The original Dune books were amazing as a young boy, I must have read Dune 3-4 times trying to soak it all in. I loved Star Wars from the start, the problem was I could return to the books of Dune over and over. The first Dune movie was a hot mess, but it was good enough for me to enjoy. I've seen both versions of that movie, the Scifi version and of course the most recent, and hoping for a great follow up. The ornithopter in the new series got me super excited, as it was so much close to the book.

To the question, will it pull fans away from Start Wars? No, that was never going to happen. The Star Wars fandom is much larger, even if you just consider the original trio. Best of all you can enjoy all of them, you don't have to pick just one.

 

[kanerf]

Good Sci Fi is basically just a Western filmed in space. You have the good guy, usually a loner, but sometimes with a comic sidekick. You have the baddie, often with a large group of baddies that are mean to the locals. The loner takes em on and beats them somehow. Rides off into the sunset/off planet, whatever.

 

[Gabby01]

Hmmm. I like that they’re re-adapting Dune, because the (first) book was really interesting, but also kind of sexist. Actually, that’s how I feel about the original Star Wars trilogy, too. Much prefer the sequels. So all in all, for me, it’s a good time to be a science fiction fan.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

A lot of great and thought-provoking responses, thank you to everyone who have given input here.

I don't much care for the direction Disney has taken Star Wars into, so I see that Dune potentially could fill that void for me. I have been a big Star Wars fan since the early 80s, but just don't care for the direction they took the franchise to in the Sequels.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Does Dune finally give the disenchanted fans what they wanted and fill the void that Star Wars has left?

I don’t think the Dune movies give the Dune fans all they want. Some day some one will make the perfect Dune movies, but that day is not today.

That said, as a huge Dune fan, I’m looking forward to Dune 2 and hope we get a Dune 3. But there are definitely some things the 1984 movie did better than the current one, and some things the Sci-Fi miniseries did better.

But yeah Dune and Star Wars are different, and I expect to mostly enjoy both Dune 2 and Ahsoka.

 

[irlandaise]

Star Wars is really more Fantasy than Science Fiction. People lump it in with SciFi becuase spaceships but that's not really appropriate. Some use the term "Science Fantasy" but Star Wars doesn't really have much science at all!

It sure doesn't. "It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs." Oh, George...

 

[BrianL]

It sure doesn't. "It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs." Oh, George...

Right, and the thing is, it absolutely doesn't matter in Star Wars. The Galaxy Far, Far, away doesn't require a depiction of proper physics. It's like having sound in space - in reality there is no sound in space, but in Star Wars there is. It doesn't invite you to think about it too hard - I think a lot of fans make that mistake though.

 

[Moliphino]

The new movie was torture. Slow as molasses and the whispered dialog was maddening. Thank God I had read the book so I knew what was being said. I had to translate it for my husband. It was beautiful to look at though.

The sound was terrible! Dialog was whisper quiet while all other sounds were super loud.

I liked the SciFi miniseries from 2000.

 

[The Foolish Mortal]

I think of the two as different genres.

Dune is science fiction in the classical sense: Posit a world with different physics/science/engineering/biology, imagine the societal systems that would have evolved under that physics/science/engineering/biology, and explore the consequences. Some of the very best SF falls into this category. Foundation is probably the best non-Dune example (in its case, psychohistory), but a more recent example would be Scalzi's Old Man's War series (a universe with many sentient beings competing over a supposedly-fixed number of planets, plus human ability to engineer bodies and transform consciousness between them).

In Dune's case, the alternate world is based on the Spice. It both grants extended life and makes the best acid trip you've ever been on look like normal existence, and also just happens to be the specific key ingredient to allow interplanetary travel (the Guild Navigators) and super-human intelligence (the Mentats). Imagine what it means to be the political entity that controls production (in the books: Harkonnen, then (briefly) Atriedes, then Harkonnen/Corrino, then Fremen), vs. the oppressed political entity that happens to occupy the means of production (the Fremen) without (at first) the power to control it.

In contrast, I would categorize Star Wars as something a bit different--rather than exploring the societal implications of its universe, it focuses on the paths of (some very specific) individuals that are personally the key to the universe's existence.

Both have appeal to the other. Paul is an individual who is key to the universe's existence, but the story is really about the society that created him and the political and societal forces that underpinned his ascent to power. It wasn't really about him. Likewise, Star Wars has the Senate/Empire/First Order scaffolding, but it's an underdeveloped, muddled mess, and even there turns on one person (Palpatine) rather than societal forces.

One that might be in the middle: Ender's Game. This has a mix of both. On the "classic" front, what happens when humanity is faced with a truly alien species (or, maybe better, an organism) that it must understand the mind of, and then defeat? On the "Star Warsian" front, well, Ender is Just Different in the way that Anakin and Luke are.

I agree with your assessment with one addition. I think the story in the original Dune is about Paul more than just the society or culture that produced him. The society and culture produced an opportunity for Paul, but I think the story is very much about how he took advantage of that opportunity (first to simply survive the events around him and then to control and rule) by taking advantage of the missionaria protectiva and allowing his followers to believe he was the messiah. None of that story is possible without the intricate world building, but I still think Paul's heroic journey is the focus of the story of the first novel.

Now, if you include the next two novels (all written at the same time), you could argue that the series is really about Paul's son and his golden path. Then it becomes a story as much about philosophy as it was culture and society. Its those kinds of ideas that make the original books so interesting

 

[irlandaise]

Good Sci Fi is basically just a Western filmed in space. You have the good guy, usually a loner, but sometimes with a comic sidekick. You have the baddie, often with a large group of baddies that are mean to the locals. The loner takes em on and beats them somehow. Rides off into the sunset/off planet, whatever.

That's one type of sci-fi, typified on TV by such series as "Firefly" and "Star Trek." But that description omits the "big ideas" type of sci-fi such as "Dune," "Foundation," and "2001," and I sure hope no one would say that those aren't "good."

 

[BrianL]

That's one type of sci-fi, typified on TV by such series as "Firefly" and "Star Trek." But that description omits the "big ideas" type of sci-fi such as "Dune," "Foundation," and "2001," and I sure hope no one would say that those aren't "good."

Yeah, there is "Hard Sci-Fi" which is the very technical, speculative, big-idea stuff, then "Soft Sci-Fi" which is a little more adventure oriented, though still with some of those qualities. Star Trek in particular was alwasy "Wagon Train to the Stars," but it could also introduce some big ideas. In the movies, the first one, Star Trek The Motion Picture, is very much Hard Sci-Fi, but the second one, The Wrath of Khan is not. Soft Sci-Fi is a bit more mainstream, though any of it can be great depending on execution. I think Hard Sci-Fi is a bit more difficult to get right though.

 

[Brocktoon]

The sound was terrible! Dialog was whisper quiet while all other sounds were super loud.

I liked the SciFi miniseries from 2000.

Pretty sure either Dune or Top Gun:Maverick blew out two of my home Atmos speakers thanks to trying to hear the dialog.

I'm loving how Villeneuve has adapted the current films, but I think the Syfy miniseries along with Children of Dune was the most 'authentic' adaptation. A lot of the miniseries felt like a stage play and focused on the story instead of over the top effects.

 

[Scootin'By]

I liked the SyFy miniseries too! That's probably been the best adaptation so far in terms of both folowing the story and watchability.

This is why I think Disney+ is hitting such a cord too, because the TV shows are able to explore just a little bit more than a movie can. Sometimes too much, but most times just enough!

 

[Donald Duck Family]

The sound was terrible! Dialog was whisper quiet while all other sounds were super loud.

I liked the SciFi miniseries from 2000.

I'm glad I'm not the only one frustrated by the sound. I originally tried to watch this on HBO in a hotel room. I am very aware of tv volume (i don't want to hear other people's tv's and I'm sure they don't want to hear mine). Dune was impossible to find a volume that allowed me to hear the dialogue without all the other sound effects blasting out at high volume. It honestly soured me to the movie. I wanted to like it but was too annoyed and likely won't see the new one because of it since that would most likely also be on HBO in a hotel again.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Hmmm. I like that they’re re-adapting Dune, because the (first) book was really interesting, but also kind of sexist. Actually, that’s how I feel about the original Star Wars trilogy, too. Much prefer the sequels. So all in all, for me, it’s a good time to be a science fiction fan.

Really? Leia is a pretty badass protagonist throughout the OT.









And even though Jabba degrades her by forcing her to wear the gold bikini as his prisoner in ROTJ, she still kicks butt and takes him out.

It sure doesn't. "It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs." Oh, George...

"Solo: A Star Wars Story" remedied this by clarifying that he was referring to the shortcut he took, not that he was confused about a parsec not being a unit of speed.

 

[Gabby01]

Really? Leia is a pretty badass protagonist throughout the OT.

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And even though Jabba degrades her by forcing her to wear the gold bikini as his prisoner in ROTJ, she still kicks butt and takes him out.

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"Solo: A Star Wars Story" remedied this by clarifying that he was referring to the shortcut he took, not that he was confused about a parsec not being a unit of speed.

Being an action heroine and having your body objectified are not mutually exclusive.

Also, how about the fact that Carrie Fisher was told “there are no bras in space”? Or Han’s line about not needing any more “female advice”? Or Han forcibly kissing Leia and the movie passing it off as romantic? I think the attitudes towards women in the OT have not aged well.

 

[leiaorgana]

While Leia does regain some agency by killing Jabba herself and becoming the revered “Hutt Slayer” in the process, it’s pretty obvious that specific outfit was designed for the “male gaze” / to sexualise Leia & Carrie and thus give the Dads in the audience something to look at so yeah, pretty sexiest in that regard but she’s also pioneering against character tropes in other regards like was pointed out.

Leia/Carrie doesn’t have a single line the entire time she’s in her “slave outfit” so not only does she lose her clothes but she also loses her voice and the fact that the gold bikini is called that on official merchandise says it all. That particular costume was also incredibly uncomfortable for Carrie to wear whilst shooting as well because of the material the bikini top was made out of dug in.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

What about all the male gaze outfits in the Barbie movie? How is it unacceptable in OT Star Wars, but fine in the Barbie movie?

My 17yo son went and his only comments about the entire movie were Ken was really funny and Barbie was hot!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Men have been mostly the same since the beginning of time and enjoy the beauty of the female form. Not all men of course, but most. Women are simply beautiful creatures, and I think you can admire the female form without being icky about anything.

 

[drenalin'junkie]

Dune has always been more cerebral than Star Wars , books and movies.
Star Wars is fun and accessible to children and adults alike.
The themes in Dune are harder to reproduce faithfully in a movie that has to appeal to a wider audience.