just curious dont want this to get out of control bathroom use

[CdnCarrie]

.

Yeah - very different world.

I was at a concert at a club two weekends ago - a couple of punk bands - mosh pit etc.. There were security guards basically in the restroom at the venue. Not really a hard drug crowd, not even a lot of drinking going on - not at those prices.

If security was very closely monitoring the restrooms then probably a reason for it - nothing to do with the thread just to say it.

Out in the suburbs, at a pub I'm still aware or surroundings - but a lot less concerned.

For sure I can see sketchy bars. Even busy ones. I'm in my 50s and my bar hopping days are done.

 

[tony67]

For sure I can see sketchy bars. Even busy ones. I'm in my 50s and my bar hopping days are done.

Well I am in my late 50s and there were guys in their 60s in the crowd - and in the mosh pit with me - as well as lots of 20 somethings so you never know. Just to say it - no I was not there having a mid life crises looking to hook up with some young one - long time happily married and don't need that hassle.

And to bring it back to the thread somewhat - no doubt there were trans, bi and gay folks in the mosh pit as well. (can I say folks)

 

[starlite_]

There are many different levels of anxiety and some are very debilitating and have horrible effects on the people around them also. I have anxiety (and OCD, all diagnosed and in continued therapy for the past 6 years total etc) But also please know.... people sometimes call it anxiety when in fact they are just resistant to change are less than open minded etc.

People with anxiety usually very much do not WANT to feel or think the things they are thinking or feeling and would like to be educated, learn and grow so they can feel better and less anxious in the world. Judgy people rest comfortably in their judgement and don't care about changing it.

Amen.

 

[Kestryl]

For the record, while my dad wasn’t a single dad, his schedule was more flexible than my mom’s so it was incredibly common to for him to bring me and my sister on errands. He would just take us into the men’s room if we needed to go. It was not a big deal. (The biggest problem at the time was lack of changing tables. If a place won’t have a changing table in the men’s room, but does have one in the women’s room, I fully support a dad using the women’s room. That’s on the business for failing to provide that accommodation.)

 

[JLTraveling]

Of course bio women (and trans woman for that matter) can assault or peep on women (or men) but those types of crimes are primarily committed by men(like upwards of 90%). And you know that of course as most people do.

First of all, men in drag are not transgender and I’ve never heard in any conversation people advocating for men who strictly dress as women but are not transgender to use women’s single sex facilities. Second of all, most 6 ft tall 200 lb men aren’t in danger anywhere.

Men in drag should use the MEN's room? In this day and age of drag bans and extreme violence? This was from a year ago, and it's only gotten worse since: https://www.them.us/story/anti-drag-attacks-2022-glaad

Proud Boys crashing drag events. Mass shootings. Drag queens upping their personal security details...yeah, let's send them to the men's room. What could possibly go wrong? Height and weight make exactly zero difference at the other end of an assault rifle.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

Men in drag should use the MEN's room? In this day and age of drag bans and extreme violence? This was from a year ago, and it's only gotten worse since: https://www.them.us/story/anti-drag-attacks-2022-glaad

Proud Boys crashing drag events. Mass shootings. Drag queens upping their personal security details...yeah, let's send them to the men's room. What could possibly go wrong? Height and weight make exactly zero difference at the other end of an assault rifle.

How often does this type of thing happen? Just because it is sensationalized in the news media does not mean it is common. Street smarts go a long way.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

OP, you had every right to feel the way you felt. No need to explain to anyone why you were uncomfortable.

 

[JLTraveling]

How often does this type of thing happen? Just because it is sensationalized in the news media does not mean it is common. Street smarts go a long way.

It happens way more often than women being assaulted in the women's room. I can't begin to count the number of drag queens I know who have assaulted or at the very least harassed and threatened in the past year. As opposed to the exactly zero women I know who have been attacked by these alleged bathroom stalkers. Yet oddly, I know way more women than drag queens. And yes, street smarts do go a long way. Like being street smart enough not to invite trouble by going into the men's room in drag.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

It happens way more often than women being assaulted in the women's room. I can't begin to count the number of drag queens I know who have assaulted or at the very least harassed and threatened in the past year. As opposed to the exactly zero women I know who have been attacked by these alleged bathroom stalkers. Yet oddly, I know way more women than drag queens. And yes, street smarts do go a long way. Like being street smart enough not to invite trouble by going into the men's room in drag.

And I know far more women who have been assaulted than trans people. I would say those who have the most anxiety about being victimized, even if the number is super low, should take steps to mitigate that and not wait for the world to mitigate it for them. It's unfortunate situation, but that is how it is. So, example - maybe drag queens could use the single stall at the store then everyone can be most comfortable?

Kind of like how women have to carry pepper spray when they go running early in the morning or late at night. A world where they did not need to worry about being attacked would be great, but we unfortunately have to take steps to mitigate our own risk.

 

[JLTraveling]

And I know far more women who have been assaulted than trans people. I would say those who have the most anxiety about being victimized, even if the number is super low, should take steps to mitigate that and not wait for the world to mitigate it for them. It's unfortunate situation, but that is how it is. So, example - maybe drag queens could use the single stall at the store then everyone can be most comfortable?

Kind of like how women have to carry pepper spray when they go running early in the morning or late at night. A world where they did not need to worry about being attacked would be great, but we unfortunately have to take steps to mitigate our own risk.

Or maybe the women who are uncomfortable with drag queens in the bathroom should use the single stall. I agree with your overall sentiment, but not the assumption that the onus is on the drag queen to make the woman more comfortable, rather than on the woman to make herself more comfortable.

Out of curiosity, have there been a spate of bathroom attacks in your social circle? Since you said you know so many women who have been assaulted in bathrooms. Maybe ya'll should make a pact to only go to the bathroom in big groups...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So, example - maybe drag queens could use the single stall at the store then everyone can be most comfortable?

Someone being in drag does not constitute an inherent risk to one's safety.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

Or maybe the women who are uncomfortable with drag queens in the bathroom should use the single stall. I agree with your overall sentiment, but not the assumption that the onus is on the drag queen to make the woman more comfortable, rather than on the woman to make herself more comfortable.

Out of curiosity, have there been a spate of bathroom attacks in your social circle? Since you said you know so many women who have been assaulted in bathrooms. Maybe ya'll should make a pact to only go to the bathroom in big groups...

Where did I say they were attacked in bathrooms? Reading too much into someone's comment does not make it truth.

I guess you're looking for the gory details of their attacks.... J was attacked on her jog a couple years back at around 3 in the afternoon, M was followed into a gym locker room last year at night, O is a victim of domestic violence by her boyfriend, K was grabbed at a store by a male wearing women's clothing (bra, thong up over skinny jeans, wig) but that was someone who was already mentally ill from what she was told and behavior leading up to it. I was on the metro when a man pulled down his pants and pleasured himself in the seat across from me. So, you see, going into an isolated place with a male is not exactly comfortable for any of us.

Since I told you about the victimization of myself and a few of the women in my life, please - describe how your male friends were assaulted. Just out of curiosity, of course.

 

[JLTraveling]

Where did I say they were attacked in bathrooms? Reading too much into someone's comment does not make it truth.

I guess you're looking for the gory details of their attacks.... J was attacked on her jog a couple years back at around 3 in the afternoon, M was followed into a gym locker room last year at night, O is a victim of domestic violence by her boyfriend, K was grabbed at a store by a male wearing women's clothing (bra, thong up over skinny jeans, wig) but that was someone who was already mentally ill from what she was told and behavior leading up to it. I was on the metro when a man pulled down his pants and pleasured himself in the seat across from me. So, you see, going into an isolated place with a male is not exactly comfortable for any of us.

Since I told you about the victimization of myself and a few of the women in my life, please - describe how your male friends were assaulted. Just out of curiosity, of course.

I never said I didn't know women who had been attacked. Myself included. What I said was that I know way more drag queens who have been attacked IN GENERAL than women who have been attacked IN BATHROOMS. Perhaps it would behoove you to actually read carefully before replying.

OK, how have the drag queens I know been assaulted? Violently raped. Stabbed nonlethally. Badly beaten and left for dead. Murdered. Trust me. Going into an isolated place with a hetero cis male isn't exactly comfortable for them either. Try a little empathy.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

I never said I didn't know women who had been attacked. Myself included. What I said was that I know way more drag queens who have been attacked IN GENERAL than women who have been attacked IN BATHROOMS. Perhaps it would behoove you to actually read carefully before replying.

OK, how have the drag queens I know been assaulted? Violently raped. Stabbed nonlethally. Badly beaten and left for dead. Murdered. Trust me. Going into an isolated place with a hetero cis male isn't exactly comfortable for them either. Try a little empathy.

LOL at the behoove before replying. Did I say that you did not know women who had been attacked? That is a good way of trying to win, though, to your credit. Argue against what the other person never said or implied. And I think we moved past empathy when you said making a joke of it:

Out of curiosity, have there been a spate of bathroom attacks in your social circle? Since you said you know so many women who have been assaulted in bathrooms. Maybe ya'll should make a pact to only go to the bathroom in big groups...

I'm done with this. It's obvious as long as men feel safe in the women's restroom, womens safety can be damned.

 

[JLTraveling]

LOL at the behoove before replying. Did I say that you did not know women who had been attacked? That is a good way of trying to win, though, to your credit. Argue against what the other person never said or implied. And I think we moved past empathy when you said making a joke of it:


I'm done with this. It's obvious as long as men feel safe in the women's restroom, womens safety can be damned.

You don't care about drag queens' safety. At all. Duly noted, and no point continuing this.

 

[JLTraveling]

You don't care about drag queens' safety. At all. Duly noted, and no point continuing this.

Also adding, interesting see that you find murder amusing.

 

[Disneychick13]

According to the UN- globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment. It does not include voyeurism. It does not include technology-facilitated violence. There are no statistics specifically for bathroom incidents (that I could find) for women or men or transgender individuals or drag queens.

Women are generally smaller than men. They are weaker than men. They are more vulnerable. That is just a fact.

If we want to have a conversation about who is safer in a women’s restroom? Everybody! Do you know why? Because no men are in there! Young boys, drag queens, scrawny guys…..they are all safer in a women’s restroom! But for that very reason we have, as a society, made dedicated spaces for women in very specific instances. Most people are Ok with trans women who appear as bio women to use those facilities because they have earned that right as they face the same struggles and chance for harassment and violence as any bio women does. Because they look and identify as women. But that courtesy that many people are happy to extend to trans women does not extend to every person that might be prone to violence or assault for whatever reason that is.

Marginalized groups being victimized have nothing to do with bathroom use. Men in drag being subjected to violence at drag events has literally nothing to do with bathroom use. They are not being assaulted because they are in a whatever sex bathroom. Furthermore I assume at drag events (which is where you would find people in drag), people in attendance at such events could probably not care less about what bathroom someone uses. I believe this is what is called a “red herring”.

 

[JLTraveling]

According to the UN- globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment. It does not include voyeurism. It does not include technology-facilitated violence. There are no statistics specifically for bathroom incidents (that I could find) for women or men or transgender individuals or drag queens.

Women are generally smaller than men. They are weaker than men. They are more vulnerable. That is just a fact.

If we want to have a conversation about who is safer in a women’s restroom? Everybody! Do you know why? Because no men are in there! Young boys, drag queens, scrawny guys…..they are all safer in a women’s restroom! But for that very reason we have, as a society, made dedicated spaces for women in very specific instances. Most people are Ok with trans women who appear as bio women to use those facilities because they have earned that right as they face the same struggles and chance for harassment and violence as any bio women does. Because they look and identify as women. But that courtesy that many people are happy to extend to trans women does not extend to every person that might be prone to violence or assault for whatever reason that is.

Marginalized groups being victimized have nothing to do with bathroom use. Men in drag being subjected to violence at drag events has literally nothing to do with bathroom use. They are not being assaulted because they are in a whatever sex bathroom. Furthermore I assume at drag events (which is where you would find people in drag), people in attendance at such events could probably not care less about what bathroom someone uses. I believe this is what is called a “red herring”.

I'm guessing you don't realize that drag queens don't just materialize at drag events. It takes hours to get ready, and they certainly aren't doing that in the library bathroom before story hour. They travel just like the rest of us, and sometimes they have to use the bathroom while going to or from an event. And, shocker, sometimes they go out in public to non-drag events, which may also involve attending to bodily functions. So if a drag queen is driving 2 hours to an event and nature calls, and she needs to pull over at a rest area or fast food place, you think she's safe in the men's room? If she's out at a concert with the general public, you believe she's okay in the men's room?

Honestly, I love how some people only look at one tiny little sliver of someone's entire day (a drag event itself), and use that to make sweeping proclamations.

 

[Living42Day]

At what point do we stop requiring women to give up their space in order to make others more comfortable?

Drag queens or not fully transitioned trans people probably would not be comfortable in a men's locker room. Do women need to subject themselves to naked men in their locker room in order for this marginalized group to feel more comfortable? Sometimes young girls change in the locker rooms with their moms, are we supposed to feel ok with men being naked in front of children? Who has the right to feel comfortable, should a small percentage of the population dictate how the rest of the affected population gets to live? Some here would say yes based on the more recent replies. There does not seem to be a line that cannot be crossed into unacceptable territory at this point.

According to the UN- globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment. It does not include voyeurism. It does not include technology-facilitated violence. There are no statistics specifically for bathroom incidents (that I could find) for women or men or transgender individuals or drag queens.

Women are generally smaller than men. They are weaker than men. They are more vulnerable. That is just a fact.

If we want to have a conversation about who is safer in a women’s restroom? Everybody! Do you know why? Because no men are in there! Young boys, drag queens, scrawny guys…..they are all safer in a women’s restroom! But for that very reason we have, as a society, made dedicated spaces for women in very specific instances. Most people are Ok with trans women who appear as bio women to use those facilities because they have earned that right as they face the same struggles and chance for harassment and violence as any bio women does. Because they look and identify as women. But that courtesy that many people are happy to extend to trans women does not extend to every person that might be prone to violence or assault for whatever reason that is.

Marginalized groups being victimized have nothing to do with bathroom use. Men in drag being subjected to violence at drag events has literally nothing to do with bathroom use. They are not being assaulted because they are in a whatever sex bathroom. Furthermore I assume at drag events (which is where you would find people in drag), people in attendance at such events could probably not care less about what bathroom someone uses. I believe this is what is called a “red herring”.

This is really well articulated.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

The only attack in a restroom that I remember hearing about was that poor little boy in California. His aunt let him go in the men's restroom - I think he was about 8 or 9. She stood right outside. Saw a man run past her and she called out to her nephew. No answer. She ran in and found he had been stabbed to death - my a straight male (not a drag queen).